Housing benefit challenge dismissed by High Court

Originally posted by christafinias

Originally posted by AthiestJesus

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AthiestJesus

 

so food and shelter for disabled people is an unnecessary entitlement ?

What about nappies and care ... those too ?

You want us to let disabled people just die whilst drowning them out with the MSM "thinkbox" ?

WHAT?

Don’t make fallacious arguments. The issue is that people with an extra room are being forced to downsize or lose £15 of the FREE MONEY they receive. That is hardly starving people or letting people die!

most of them have already contributed before claiming ...... but you see them all as leeches on taxes - yet have no problem with dave and his pals taking every penny for themselves ? ...

Do you know most of them?? have you got some evidence to back that up? thats a rather bold statement MOST have contributed......Do you know most people??

Every penny of benefit is Taxed, everything you buy is Taxed, so how do they not contribute to society...An average smoker/Drinker will pay more tax over a lifetime than a Non smoker/drinker, so does that make the smoker/drinker a more valuable member of society. ?

For every £5000 The UK tax payer pays, roughly around £47 or £74, cant remember" goes to the benefits system...now compare that with £900 for every £5000 tax payed going to Private sector pensions...who's draining the public purse more

Wake up.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

Originally posted by christafinias

Originally posted by AthiestJesus

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by AthiestJesus

 

so food and shelter for disabled people is an unnecessary entitlement ?

What about nappies and care ... those too ?

You want us to let disabled people just die whilst drowning them out with the MSM "thinkbox" ?

WHAT?

Don’t make fallacious arguments. The issue is that people with an extra room are being forced to downsize or lose £15 of the FREE MONEY they receive. That is hardly starving people or letting people die!

most of them have already contributed before claiming ...... but you see them all as leeches on taxes - yet have no problem with dave and his pals taking every penny for themselves ? ...

Do you know most of them?? have you got some evidence to back that up? thats a rather bold statement MOST have contributed......Do you know most people??

Every penny of benefit is Taxed, everything you buy is Taxed, so how do they not contribute to society...An average smoker/Drinker will pay more tax over a lifetime than a Non smoker/drinker, so does that make the smoker/drinker a more valuable member of society. ?

For every £5000 The UK tax payer pays, roughly around £47 or £74, cant remember" goes to the benefits system...now compare that with £900 for every £5000 tax payed going to Private sector pensions...who's draining the public purse more

Wake up.

because someone's buying stuff out of there benefits (free money) does not mean they are contributing.
that benefit is a chunk of my wages they took for tax.

think its you that needs to WAKE up and stop making excuses.

boo hoo i cant keep my 3 bedroom house that i rattle around in....sarcasm

regarding the your figures on private pensions ect....i'll get back to you after i look into the figures myself, since i cant see anything to back it up but what you say......

Originally posted by christafinias

because someone's buying stuff out of there benefits (free money) does not mean they are contributing.
that benefit is a chunk of my wages they took for tax.

If that "free money" wasn't sloshing around communities, and there isn't dignified employment for them all, how do you expect these people to survive? Would you rather give them say, a £100 a week not to be a nuisance, or spend a £1000 per week to lock them up everytime they get caught stealing from those who have jobs?

Here's something to consider when talking about this new Bedroom Tax.

Why should a Single parent who has split from his/her partner but don't have a hold of the Child benefit book but has his/her children over to stay 3/4 night a week be asked to pay Under occupancy for a spare bedroom when it's clearly not the case the bedroom/s are lying empty.

Why would someone who may have stayed in the same home for 30+ years, maybe scattered their husbands/wifes ashes in the Garden, spent thousand of £££ maintaining someone else's property, made lifelong friends with their neighbours and have close family and support systems close at hand be turfed from that home...This is the 21st century in the UK, not Nazi Germany of the 30's

I seriously dont understand anyone who can agree with this bedroom tax..oh wait, i can...Jealousy, Plain and simple. What state must your petty, narrow minded life be in to be Jealous of the Plate licker's of society... Just like 30 Germany, they have fallen for the Government spin. it's no more than what i expect from the weak of mind and those who cant think for themselves though...

Direct your anger elsewhere...not at the Poorest and weakest members of society...Cowards!!

BTW, when you get up in the morning, i'll be looking out from my semi closed Blinds and pointing the finger at you and laughing as you jump on the treadmill once more just so i can live a life of Luxury with my big flat screen TV and Sky Broadband on the back of your sweat and tears..
Then i will jump back under the covers to sleep off my Drug and Alcohol induced Hangover. ~George Osbourne,

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by christafinias

because someone's buying stuff out of there benefits (free money) does not mean they are contributing.
that benefit is a chunk of my wages they took for tax.

If that "free money" wasn't sloshing around communities, and there isn't dignified employment for them all, how do you expect these people to survive? Would you rather give them say, a £100 a week not to be a nuisance, or spend a £1000 per week to lock them up everytime they get caught stealing from those who have jobs?

Dont really understand what that's got to do with my post??
its been taken out of context, the point you quouted is an answer to someone that thinks most people on 1 benefit or the other contribute to the system.

dignified employment??? what because people wont clean toilets and pick up litter as a job, they start coming out with there's no jobs........dignified jobs......so people would rather be on benefits than working (ANY) job, where's the dignity in that (obviously this doesnt apply to people that cant work)??

I'll say this 1 more time.
i do NOT want benefits abolished
I want a shake up to sort the shy and lazy from the needy
I think twisting that you (not you personaly) have to move to a smaller house, that you get free anyway is pathetic
I think if people are truely that hard up or need to feed there kids they will HAVE to work, severly disabled may not be able too, e.g i've seen a 2 guys with down syndrome hold down full time jobs and we got a guy where i work now with 1 leg.....he gets a disability car to get to work but still works.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Why would someone who may have stayed in the same home for 30+ years, maybe scattered their husbands/wifes ashes in the Garden, spent thousand of £££ maintaining someone else's property, made lifelong friends with their neighbours and have close family and support systems close at hand be turfed from that home...

Because "that home" does not belong to them and their staying it is off the back of tax payers. Your statement the supports the "money for nothing" society - that is what people find so annoying. If a person is living in a house paid for by tax payers then they should live in one that is not over-sized, regardless of whether they scattered ashes in the garden.

I am all for helping people live, but I resent people expecting me to continually subsidise their lifestyle when they are not prepared to make compromises.

Regards

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
reply to post by Firefly_

 

Its disgusting isn't it

But this is what you get with a tory government, more for them, less for everyone else.

They better appeal.

Dirty tory Scumbags

I don’t disagree that many within your government (and my own) may very well be sumbags but how does responsibly managing excess spending make them scumbags? Would you rather they spend even more on unnecessary entitlements?

No, i would rather they make companies such as star bucks pay their tax instead of taking off of people that are already poor and living on the breadline.

Perople are not entitled to dodge taxes. If you want to trade in this country, pay your tax.

Originally posted by paraphi

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Why would someone who may have stayed in the same home for 30+ years, maybe scattered their husbands/wifes ashes in the Garden, spent thousand of £££ maintaining someone else's property, made lifelong friends with their neighbours and have close family and support systems close at hand be turfed from that home...

Because "that home" does not belong to them and their staying it is off the back of tax payers. Your statement the supports the "money for nothing" society - that is what people find so annoying. If a person is living in a house paid for by tax payers then they should live in one that is not over-sized, regardless of whether they scattered ashes in the garden.

I am all for helping people live, but I resent people expecting me to continually subsidise their lifestyle when they are not prepared to make compromises.

Regards

Ok, I hear ya, well get this...say the cost of a 2 bed Council house is £300 per month and you have a spare bedroom...the person who rents the house and is on benefits has to find 14% for that spare room per week...Now here is the kicker....That same person could move to a Private rented 2 bed house that cost £300 a week and pay nothing/Nada/Zilch, no 14% and he/she still has a spare room....
so how is it about saving Money for the Tax payer...It's as clear as day it's about social Cleansing.

Would you be happier with this as a Compromise..

reply to post by paraphi


you worded that beautifully, totally agree.

Originally posted by AthiestJesus
reply to post by fossildog

 

So your source is a conservative paper ?

This whole country is drowning in bias propaganda.

Seriously? The Guardian is as left wing and socialist as they come. Are you from the UK, you really do not seem to know what you are talking about? You claim there are 'millions homeless and starving' in the UK which is frankly utter rubbish. Unless you can provide proof? Granted there is some poverty in the UK but this is generally self inflicted by people who have drug or alcohol issues.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

I seriously dont understand anyone who can agree with this bedroom tax..oh wait, i can...Jealousy, Plain and simple. What state must your petty, narrow minded life be in to be Jealous of the Plate licker's of society... Just like 30 Germany, they have fallen for the Government spin. it's no more than what i expect from the weak of mind and those who cant think for themselves though...

wait a minute, so supposedly these people who cant feed or home themselves, i'm now jealous of?
i'm jealous that they survive on charity, nope not me, i'm proud that I work hard for my house, car, holidays and sky tv ect
your confusing jealousy with being hacked off, that people abuse the system and use it as a lifestyle of which there is far to many of them (I know this for fact as I know plenty of them, I see it all around me)

Direct your anger elsewhere...not at the Poorest and weakest members of society...Cowards!!

my angers directed at the pee takers that spoil it for the rest, as yours should be.
you do realise the country is in debt? (governments fault totally) and we all need to make sacrifices before we turn in to turkey, Greece and Ireland no money or jobs what so ever.

BTW, when you get up in the morning, i'll be looking out from my semi closed Blinds and pointing the finger at you and laughing as you jump on the treadmill once more just so i can live a life of Luxury with my big flat screen TV and Sky Broadband on the back of your sweat and tears..
Then i will jump back under the covers to sleep off my Drug and Alcohol induced Hangover. ~George Osbourne,

edit on 31-7-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-7-2013 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)

and you say i'm weak of mind, I can only assume you must be one of those who thinks that being on benefits is an acceptable life style choice. that's the attitude we need to make a stand against.

like I said before if we all took a stand over major issue's like corporate tax avoidance, secret wars, europe and being spied on then maybe things would be better.

Originally posted by fossildog

Originally posted by AthiestJesus
reply to post by fossildog

 

So your source is a conservative paper ?

This whole country is drowning in bias propaganda.

Seriously? The Guardian is as left wing and socialist as they come. Are you from the UK, you really do not seem to know what you are talking about? You claim there are 'millions homeless and starving' in the UK which is frankly utter rubbish. Unless you can provide proof? Granted there is some poverty in the UK but this is generally self inflicted by people who have drug or alcohol issues.

hear, hear.

reply to post by christafinias

So you have a job, a Car, a house, you go on Holidays, you have Sky tv, but you're still Pissed off...Strange fellow...
is a decent standard of living for you and your family not good enough.. do you lose sleep at night thinking about who might be getting £71 a week to live on that could be fit for work....Greed will destroy us all.

Try being Unemployed for a few Months, maybe then you will develop some compassion and Understanding.

reply to post by paraphi


You are missing the point here. The point is that sick and disabled people, who have had their homes modified so they can live as close to a normal, independent life as possible, are being forced to move because they cannot afford to pay the new rent. Blind people are affected too. They know their house, they know their area, they know their way around. Sure they get benefits like ESA/DLA/PIP but these do not go very far particularly when you are using them to pay for stuff like care and mobility.

So they are being forced to find accommodation that is in very short supply. This often means moving out of town, to a part of the country they have no friends or family, their new property will be unsuitable for their needs. They will lose out. They will be right back to square one.

Even those with shared custody of children are affected, and while it does not relate directly to this topic, its still bad that people have been told to move and put their kids up on a sofa. (Yes, the government have said that, I do not have the link to hand but its probably already been discussed on here).

Why should there be a blanket application of this backwards policy to everyone, regardless of situation, even though it will outright destroy the lives of the MOST VULNERABLE? They certainly have been discriminated against. This policy has been ill thought out from the offset and despite numerous challenges and protests from all affected parties, the government has point blank refused to listen. They know they can treat the people at the bottom like dirt and get away with it, and very few will stand up on their behalf.

I am aware there is a discretionary payment available, but as with anything of this nature, it will require much jumping through hoops and be extremely hard to get.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by christafinias

 

So you have a job, a Car, a house, you go on Holidays, you have Sky tv, but you're still Pissed off...Strange fellow...
is a decent standard of living for you and your family not good enough.. do you lose sleep at night thinking about who might be getting £71 a week to live on that could be fit for work....Greed will destroy us all.

Try being Unemployed for a few Months, maybe then you will develop some compassion and Understanding.

If only you knew my life you'd feel such the fool....trust me i've known hardship, I left a £1500 pound a month job at 21 to train as a engineer (young girl in a mans world), living on £40 per week.....£40!! true I lived with my parent but I still had financial commitments. i did this as I knew lay off's where coming and if i wanted more out of life I had to give more.

No I don't loose sleep because its a situation they can easily change.
my younger brother worked two jobs, then screwed his life up and ended up in prison. when he got out, he signed on (contribution based of course), he had 'champagne taste and beer money' so needed a job and he took anything..... 1 week temp contracts, 3 month temp contract, cleaning and litter picking, so that he had money. Not that he ends up much better off, by the time he pays rent, council tax, prescriptions but he gets on with it. Yet our estranged, woman beating, alcoholic father (deceased), had loads of cash to splash about all because he sat on his stupid, drunken, lazy ass.

I have compassion, i help where i can, the amount of CV's I've wrote for people and the Facebook community job page i created and the fact that i constantly get on friends and family members case's about getting a job and i get the same old response of 'there's no jobs' is proof of that.

so don't go preaching at me as if I've never experienced or seen hardship, because its all around me everyday, it always has been.
but i am responsible for myself, my life and my family's, nobody else is, i don't want my life and finances controlled by anyone else, so i remain as independent as possible in these modern times.
yes i'm angry at the lack of responsibility for one's self and actions, i'm angry that i see people around me stuck in a rut, thinking that going to the job centre once a week n buying a bottle of lambrini is all life has to offer.
i moan when i have to get up for work, but at the end of the day it opens me up to new people and experiences.
so grateful.

anyway bedroom tax at this point of time is still a good idea......i can go on giving examples and arguments but we are both on different pages......the signing on and the employed it would appear

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by paraphi

 

Why should there be a blanket application of this backwards policy to everyone, regardless of situation

edit on 31-7-2013 by Firefly_ because: (no reason given)

this is a good point actually, it should actually look at the individual circumstances but it comes back down to people abusing and spoiling it for everyone.

reply to post by paraphi


No, it doesn't belong to them, but if they have proven themselves to be good long-term neighbours and caretakers of the property, it seems a little churlish to take the chance of replacing them with someone everybody eventually hates.

ps. Doesn't it cost the same to subsidise a house whether there is one person or 5 in it?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Firefly_

 

Not to make light of the situation but….this social cradle to grave assistance provided by government (the tax payer) is and always will be unsustainable. How in the world is cutting back on excess benefits be considered discrimination or a human right violation???

Beggars can’t be choosers, friend. The 'takers' of society don't get to make the rules....the 'givers' do! If I make a charitable donation, the recipient doesn’t get to determine the amount and then accuse me of violating their rights for not giving MORE.

What am I missing here?

They weren't choosing. Councils maintain a waiting list, and when a property becomes available, it is assigned based on most in need, depending on the size of the family. If a person or family turns down the first property offered to them, they get put back in the waiting list. So they had to take the first property that matched their needs, even if it was larger than they needed. There were guidelines such as one bedroom for parents, one bedroom for young children of the same age, separate bedrooms for teenagers, bungalows for disabled people, homes with gardens for children, leaving high-rise blocks for mobile young people.

Then the politicians started playing political football. Not so long local connections also counted as points, but some immigrants from Africa complained about discrimination and that was scrapped. One right-wing party decided to force councils to sell properties to tenants who wished to own their own home, and refused to allow councils to build new properties in order to increase voters. That created a housing shortage. To boost their voting base, another left-wing party decided to allow 200,000 new immigrants to settle in the country every year for twelve years, even when there was already a housing shortage of 120,000 homes/year.

So now we have a hyper-critical housing shortage with grown up children living in converted garages at the bottom of the parents garden, councils operating low flying planes with thermal imaging cameras trying to detect them, and when that isn't enough, the same right-wing party presently in power deciding to fine people for being willing to accept the first property that the council offered them in the first place. This situation is *ENTIRELY* the fault of the muppets in power over the past 30 years, not the fault of those tenants. As a consequence of all this manipulation of property prices, two million native Brits have been forced to emigrate because they simply can't afford to live in the country.

reply to post by christafinias


I also work. I have no spare rooms.
So you are lucky enough to earn more than me and yet still begrudge their spare room on a housing estate?
Unemployment can happen to anyone, since when did it become a crime that must be punished?

Here's my situation right now...I have two sons..17 and 22...both come and stay with me..the youngest 3-4 nights a week, right now i have my youngest in my bed, two of his friends in his and his brothers bed and two lying sleeping on the living room floor....I'm happy with that.

My oldest's girlfriend is expecting a child and i cant wait to be a grandfather and have the baby in my life and my home...should i be forced into a one bed property because i'm classed as a single guy with a spare room...does it sound spare to you or anyone else...do my children have rights to a room of their own, do i have rights to spend time with my kids and future Grand kids in a situation where we are not sleeping on top of one another....i'm pretty sure we do.

Another Challenge for this corrupt, Fascist Government.