Toronto Police Kill 18 Year Old Alone On Streetcar. Caught on Video. I Am Speechless.

Seriously, instead of crying about the police (who are by the vast majority good people trying to do a good job) how about you do something useful? If police are so bad now, then step in and show them how it is done. Or go the other way and join a outreach to try and talk to and help the kids who are getting into trouble.

That's actually doing something productive though isn't it? It's much easier to critique while doing nothing. It's much easier to talk # about police when you have no fears of ever having to do their type of job.

Here's the deal.

The kid pulls a knife on a crowded bus and orders everybody off for unknown reasons. Once the police arrive he then refuses to drop the knife and finally begins to advance on them. Then he obviously was shot and killed.

Where is the tragedy in this? I can understand the outrage at amount of lethal force involved especially considering there was non-lethal force available, but we are still talking about a knife wielding man who had threatened the lives of others. A knife wielding man who refused to drop his weapon and who was warned to not take any steps forward.

Obviously the officer involved probably doesn't need to be walking a beat if this is how he reacts to stress, but the tragedy involved isn't that a young man was killed. It's that a guy trying to serve the public is going to be crucified for reacting extremely poorly in a bad situation. The tragedy is that people will rally behind a kid who apparently wanted to commit suicide by cop.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Why would more than one gun need to be drawn in these particular circumstances? Don't they trust each others aiming ability? Two exits = two cops with guns drawn, max. Add an extra cop if I missed an exit.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by minkmouse

 

When I watch an Alpine Skier fall down, I don't offer advice or a critique of what he did wrong. 1. I don't ski. 2. I've never been to the Alps. I think more people should adhere to this when posting.

Alpine skiers don't kill other people.

Slap yourself upside your own head. People will discuss what they please. If you don't like it, you're free to leave. Otherwise, offer up an argument aside from "shut up because I said so". You don't need to tell anyone you're involved with Law Enforcement/Security, everyone knows it already, with the way you treat others.

Originally posted by ProphetZoroaster
Here's the deal.

The kid pulls a knife on a crowded bus and orders everybody off for unknown reasons. Once the police arrive he then refuses to drop the knife and finally begins to advance on them. Then he obviously was shot and killed.

Where is the tragedy in this? I can understand the outrage at amount of lethal force involved especially considering there was non-lethal force available, but we are still talking about a knife wielding man who had threatened the lives of others. A knife wielding man who refused to drop his weapon and who was warned to not take any steps forward.

Obviously the officer involved probably doesn't need to be walking a beat if this is how he reacts to stress, but the tragedy involved isn't that a young man was killed. It's that a guy trying to serve the public is going to be crucified for reacting extremely poorly in a bad situation. The tragedy is that people will rally behind a kid who apparently wanted to commit suicide by cop.

edit on 30/7/2013 by ProphetZoroaster because: (no reason given)

Completely Agree with everything you have said...It's sad that people want to lynch this officer for making a very difficult decision. People really need to put themselves into that officers shoes and really try to see the situation for what it was. Or at least from an officer perspective which for some I know will be very hard to do.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


It all depends on what he did prior to the police rushing to a knife wielding man on a bus,and the police did not need to waste bullets a duble tap to the head and chest wold of done it effectively.

reply to post by SupersonicSerpent


The old "Mozambique" method. Sgt Doakes would be proud of you.

Are you really recommending battlefield/war zone tactics as being acceptable to use on Toronto streets against an 18 yr old with his dick in one hand and a pen-knife in the other?

id be pissed if i was the officer who rushed in,,after the 3 shots,,,delay,,,,,and then some idiot opens fire while im rushing in,,, good thing there would have been colateral damage,,,,why open fire agin,,
??????,

and bullets have too be acounted for.

crazy??

".It's sad that people want to lynch this officer for making a very difficult decision." .

officers are supposed to be trained to serve and protect, with that comes a very large
responsibility to keep cool in situations like the one we just saw,. What we saw there
was not only one cop but ALL of them acting like the Taliban. There was no reason
for the excessive gunfire. none. And honestly Id be worried about being on the streets of
canada

15 feet is definitely in the zone in which he could kill them with a knife before they could draw a gun, those officers are LUCKY to be alive. IMO, he had even more advantage because he had the high ground and could take a big step on the stairs and in a single jumping leap stab an officer in the neck and kill him. And getting 1 shot off won't stop you from getting stabbed at that distance it was described as inside the guarantee kill zone for the knife by the mythbusters. If he had gotten momentum behind him, he'd be basically unstoppable regardless of how much times he was shot.

If you can shoot someone for "attacking you" you sure as hell should be able to shoot someone with a knife who is behaving aggressively to you.

reply to post by ProphetZoroaster


There is rationalizing... and then there is rationalizing.

By that logic anyone interacting with any police officer, ever, should be preemptively murdered for the sake of officer safety. After all... any of us might do anything at anytime and... better safe than sorry.

reply to post by ProphetZoroaster

15 feet is definitely in the zone in which he could kill them with a knife before they could draw a gun,

He could also have won the state lottery, had he bought a ticket. Doesn't mean it's highly likely to happen. If several trained officers can't take down a man with a 3 inch knife, just by using batons, then they aren't qualified enough to be on the streets.

First they shot the shiate out of em, then they tazed the dead body to death! You can expect a lot more of this to come in our NWO, were sheep get shot at the slightest issue. We didn't actually see any knife, we just presume he must have had one right?

reply to post by spartacus699

It looks like he the kid set the whole thing up to be shot in the precise manner that he was, with the rear door closed, alone in the streetcar, the higher ground position in a narrow passageway, guns drawn on him. It was as if he was aware of police procedure and exploited it to bring about his own suicide.

It still requires a review of procedures and training though, so maybe it wasn't all in vain if lives can be saved in the future and police excessive use of force curtailed.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


So, now we're going to accomodate lunatics wanting to be killed by the authorities at the waving of a penis and a pocket knife?

Originally posted by ProphetZoroaster
Here's the deal.

The kid pulls a knife on a crowded bus and orders everybody off for unknown reasons. Once the police arrive he then refuses to drop the knife and finally begins to advance on them. Then he obviously was shot and killed.

Where is the tragedy in this?
.

edit on 30/7/2013 by ProphetZoroaster because: (no reason given)

I guess you know something the Police Chief does not huh.

Was he carrying a knife?

At 15 feet, it's pretty easy to throw a knife into a target or just charge it within a few seconds. Why should an officer have to risk his or her life in that situation?

reply to post by RedDragon


Because it is their job. Nobody forced them into that position, or insisted they had families they had to provide for who would be heatrbroken at their selfless display of courage turning pear-shaped.

what if he said its not an knife,,its a detonator??

hey its the new reality,,a dynamite six pack?

Originally posted by xEphon
6 officers with guns vs 1 man with a knife and this is the best solution they could muster.
Anyone with problem solving skills above a potato could have managed a better outcome.

I notice that everyone saying this has failed to actually come up with a plan that minimizes risk of life and/ or limb to the officers.