Pope Francis on Gays "Who Am I To Judge?'

reply to post by FlyersFan


Remember the Frankie says relax Tshirts. They were Gay icons in the U.k/

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christians are already not supossed to judge others. they were told not to and its very clear.

so this is just a BS public relations move. the pope actually avoided the issue entirely.

reply to post by FlyersFan


So, what, he just decided to ignore what the Bible teaches about the issue? We can love the sinner, and not approve of the sin. Apparently, he thinks we can't. That's disappointing, and I actually thought he'd be alright.

Indeed. Who is he to judge- he's merely an emissary of the higher power he worships.

If there is a 'God', that god will adjudicate upon who has sinned and who hasn't. For humans to take the role of judge, jury and executioner is effectively them playing god themselves.

Another in a an endless line of examples of why religion / 'God' is a human construct.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
My question is what motivated the change of view?

The teaching of the Catholic church remains ...
The ACT of homosexual sex is against church teaching.
But no one is to JUDGE the SOUL of another human being.
That's God's job alone. And to judge a soul is to try to elevate yourself to be God.
DISCERN the ACT ... but don't JUDGE the SOUL.

So I don't think that Francis has changed Church teaching. (yet??) He's reminding people not to hate. He's reminding people that we don't know another persons soul. He's reminding people that only God can judge a soul. He's - in my opinion - softening the hate against homosexuals, reminding everyone that we are all human and struggling and trying to find our way through life.

IMHO

I understand your point of view. It is valid but isn't the Pope to also remind us of what God's law is within the old testament. To correct the errors of our ways?

God has spoken what he thinks about men sleeping together.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV
New International Version
" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

So how should we take this view that the Pope has about gay men? Is it scriptual acceptable to be gay?

reply to post by Fraudfinder


So if the Pope speaks out and it is against God's spoken word what is this called? I forget? Can anyone tell me?('')

reply to post by Fraudfinder


What is "God's spoken word"?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

What is "God's spoken word"?

Leviticus 20:13 NIV
New International Version
" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

But you did not answer my question ('')

Originally posted by Fraudfinder

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

What is "God's spoken word"?

Leviticus 20:13 NIV
New International Version
" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

That's not God's "spoken word".

But you did not answer my question ('

')

What question?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

What is "God's spoken word"?

Maybe I did not understand you??? The other answer to your question would be: God's spoken word means the words that God spoke. ('')

God spoke nine times in the Old Testament and three times in the New Testament and one of the times he spoke in the Old Testament was concerning the bible verse.

God spoke out against homosexuality and he finds it detestable. He even took it a step further and stated they both should be killed.

These are the words of the one true God JEHOVAH.

AMEN.

Originally posted by Fraudfinder

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

What is "God's spoken word"?

Maybe I did not understand you??? The other answer to your question would be: God's spoken word means the words that God spoke. ('

')

God spoke nine times in the Old Testament and three times in the New Testament and one of the times he spoke in the Old Testament was concerning the bible verse.

God spoke out against homosexuality and he finds it detestable. He even took it a step further and stated they both should be killed.

These are the words of the one true God JEHOVAH.

AMEN.

edit on 31-7-2013 by Fraudfinder because: (no reason given)

WARNING: I think anyone who believes in the one true God will be careful and not call JEHOVAH a liar.

reply to post by Fraudfinder


The God of the Old Testament commanded all kinds of murder, right after he said "Thou shall not kill."

"Jehovah's spoken word" to Moses also included abortion for women suspected of adultery. You good with that too?

Numbers 5:

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

The God of the Old Testament commanded all kinds of murder, right after he said "Thou shall not kill."

"Jehovah's spoken word" to Moses also included abortion for women suspected of adultery. You good with that too?

Numbers 5:

11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;

27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.

Is it right (maybe wise is a better word) to question your creator? Is the creator's way of thinking and doing things wrong because you disagree with them?

reply to post by Fraudfinder


Why do you think the creator wants you to kill homosexuals and the unwanted preborn, as well as host of others? Why do think that's the creator?

You'll know them by their fruits.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Fraudfinder

 

Why do you think the creator wants you to kill homosexuals and the unwanted preborn, as well as host of others? Why do think that's the creator?

You'll know them by their fruits.

edit on 31-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

God has NOT told me to kill homosexuals and the unwanted preborn as well as host of others. Stop putting words in my mouth. God spoke these words and if you have an issue with them, then you have an issue that is between you and God JEHOVAH.

Are you judging God about doing something wrong?

Oh......I almost forgot......YOU WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS????? Are you kidding? Really? This has NOTHING to do concerning my post. Actually you are talking about THEM and I know who THEM is? Do you?

Yesterday there was this news on TV about cardinals and priests dancing or something, I think it was in Brasil, not sure exactly anyway that doesn't matter. So my mother was next to me and I asked her this: "How many of those priests you think are pedophiles?" She just said that I shouldn't speak of them like that but sorry I'm tired of people who claim to be one of the most innocent in this world and they are doing the most awful sins there could be?

Instead of the church finding cures for homosexuals, they should maybe find ones for pedophiles who REPRESENT that church. But there is no cure for those kind of people(pedophiles), the only way out is pulling the trigger on those bastards.

Its Gods word, everything in the Bible
Why is that?
Because it tells me in the Bible that it is.....

Originally posted by JohnnyJohn4578
Yesterday there was this news on TV about cardinals and priests dancing or something, I think it was in Brasil, not sure exactly anyway that doesn't matter. So my mother was next to me and I asked her this: "How many of those priests you think are pedophiles?" She just said that I shouldn't speak of them like that but sorry I'm tired of people who claim to be one of the most innocent in this world and they are doing the most awful sins there could be?

Instead of the church finding cures for homosexuals, they should maybe find ones for pedophiles who REPRESENT that church. But there is no cure for those kind of people(pedophiles), the only way out is pulling the trigger on those bastards.

I know it sounds cruel but I agree with you. Cleaning should start with God's house.

Father Malachi stated, "Satan has been walking the halls of the Vatican for years."

Originally posted by olaru12
Telling me that I can't judge the Crimes of the Church is ludicrous. All the while you are quick to judge people on the boards. I think there is a word for that............

The word you are searching for is ... ignorance. That's what you posted. Show us EXACTLY where I said that we can't 'judge the crimes of the church'. The answer .. NO WHERE. :shk:

Learn how to read. The pope said 'who am I to judge'? He's talking about SOULS of HOMOSEXUALS. He's NOT talking about ACTIONS of PEDOPHILES. Those are two different things as has been explained over and over again on this thread. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by Bisman
christians are already not supossed to judge others. they were told not to and its very clear.
so this is just a BS public relations move. the pope actually avoided the issue entirely.

What issue? How did he 'avoid it'?

If you are going to bring up pedophiles who have infiltrated the Catholic church, then you should
know that's a DIFFERENT ISSUE than people who are homosexuals. And keep in mind that what
he stated was indeed in line with scripture and christian teaching.

Again .. what 'issue' are you talking about that he has avoided?

Keep this in mind - Pope calls for decisive action against sex abuse priests