NSA collects Data; Why it should and must, an AlienView

You know something,I don't even know if the government/security services actually question or review whether they need to be able monitor everyone whenever they want.

They've been pursuing the technology to eavesdrop,spy and listen in on people for so long now that todays technology is probably been the holy grail since they began spying and intelligence gathering.

Of course,since 9/11 it seems that they've been more vocal about protecting the people from the Taliban bomber hiding under thb bed.

I remember the Brighton bombing when,the hotel was blown up with haf the tory party still inside the.1984.When asked later what extra securiy measures they plan to implement Maggie told them none as that showed the IRA they were winning,curtailing freedom would be a sign of weakness.

Yet in 2001 the response was the opposite with the steady tightening of laws in the UK aswell as the US.Security services had to have increased powers to keep us safe from an enemy that was never really there.

We hear the odd snippet and it's often remarked you never hear of all those plots that they've foiled,that their powers are absolutely necessary.

We're told that we have this deadly enemy always a hairs breadth away from striking.An enemy you can't recognise or see,that could strike anywhere at anytime and its down to the state with increased powers that we've not been wiped off the planet by al-qaeda and the taliban because they stop it before it happens and thats why we never knew we were forever on the edge of being slaughtered all this time.

i'm sorry but I've always believed the war on terror is about subjegating our society not giving democracy to the middle east.

They have this mantra that the more ability they have to monitor everyone the better making out that it's for our own protection from the Russians,Islamic Terrorists,Chinese,criminal masterminds,paedophiles n whoever else.

it's a heap of crap,there has to be a threat or how do you justify the huge military/secret service budgets.I don't need the governments protection.Just pay the coppers,keep the roads n that up to shape n let me get on with my life.

I hope in the US the arms of government are as useless at working together as they are in the Uk.

Thanks but no thanks.

It shouldn't be "If you aren't doing anything wrong why does it matter if we watch you".

It should be "If I'm not doing anything wrong WHY do you need to watch me".

# # #

When the government starts to violate my rights THEY become the enemy.

I think you are all missing the point that I apparently am not conveying so I will try again.

Is government too big? Probably. Does government and agents of the government [ie. police] over-step their authority? Sometimes and too often this is true. Should government have an excuse to violate your Constitutional rights? Only against an imminent threat to national security and the safety of the people.

But you see I can't see how intelligence gathering in itself is violating anyone's rights but will admit it could be so used. And that is part of the point I'm trying to make;Ignorance is not bliss and there is more of a chance of a break-down in law and the constitutional rights law is supposed to protect if you have an ignorant government arbitrarily trying to enforce the law without that government knowing who the real enemy is. Would you prefer a break-down in intelligence and those very real criminals and terrorists getting their way and causing chaos to rule the land? Would you like martial law to rule? Then in my book you are supporting terrorism and the terrorist agenda. Of course I exaggerate to make my point.

But I'll say it again the gathering of intelligence, and even of things such as who is calling who when or communicating with whoever on the internet, does not threaten your liberty; But if those terrorists who blew-up
the World Trade Center and strike often and throughout the world, most recently in Boston, have their way you
can kiss your Constitution and its rights goodbye. The fact that sometimes government has not been as effective as should be and also should be monitored for efficiency and abuse of its authority, of this I will agree.

reply to post by AlienView


Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Rambling, unpunctuated gibberish.....Just what the ATS needs more of, eh?

Originally posted by Sleytek76
reply to post by AlienView

 

Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. It is interesting how few people agree. Apparently the modern day mind set of many who post on forums
such as ATS is if the government is doing it there must be an ulterior motive or a conspiracy. Makes you wonder
if there is an ulterior motive to the anti-government paranoia generators?

reply to post by AlienView


If the NSA is the end-all for info gathering, and there is no other agency that can dispute it's "findings", what's to stop them from downloading "incriminating" info and then charging you with it?

They are the only ones who "know" what's been downloaded in your file? No one can dispute that you did not download this info, and you are therefore being either "rail-roaded", or "black-mailed" by this one gov't agency?

Sounds fishy to me.

reply to post by Happy1


Sounds like we need some capitalist entity - like "life lock" - to ensure that there's an alternate security program to protect from what the NSA gov't is planning on doing to you, if they want to.

Some private organisation that can "dispute" the NSA's findings in a court of law (I use the term loosely, when applying it to the US gov't, anymore).

I already said this but will repeat:

The fact that sometimes government has not been as effective as should be and also should be monitored for efficiency and abuse of its authority, of this I will agree.

I have no political or commercial interest in the NSA. Every branch of government and everyone and anyone involved in or working for government can be dangerous and can abuse their authority. Those of you who have studied the history of the US and it's Constitution know from their studies that that is why the US Constitution was designed with 'Checks and Balances' between the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government. And rather than have any of you think I'm giving carte blanch to the NSA I think agencies of that type of all inclusive intelligence gathering capability should always be open to scrutiny of the other branches of government and ultimately to the people of the US. NSA and intelligence gathering in the right hands can be a great savior of a constitutional republic but in the wrong hands the nightmare begins. A quote by T.E. Lawrence [Lawrence of Arabia] comes to mind:

"The sword it goes two ways; It cleanses and it kills."

Originally posted by truthermantwo
If we didn't have watchers watching hte watchers other watchers would come along and ruin it for the previous watchers.

Everyone scraping to be at the top of the all seeing eye, no doubt.

Originally posted by AlienView

Originally posted by Sleytek76
reply to post by AlienView

 

Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. It is interesting how few people agree. Apparently the modern day mind set of many who post on forums
such as ATS is if the government is doing it there must be an ulterior motive or a conspiracy. Makes you wonder
if there is an ulterior motive to the anti-government paranoia generators?

There is a huge market in "survivalist/end of the world/the government is just nazis in disguise" genre. From books, to websites, to products. There is always a market for anything.

That's not to say there isn't some ligitimacy in the claims of misapproperated government. I'm just saying it doesn't take much of a google search to realize there is a market for doom and gloom too.

Originally posted by TheomExperience
reply to post by AlienView

 

Eventually one of the big companies will announce they have a working A.I.(thanks to all the years of data mining a massive data pool). This A.I, It will be self named SAM (Seriously Awesome Machine), will be the first in the totalitarian creep towards a fully fledged A.I controlled police force with robots.

Imagine a quantum networked robot that could facially recognize and compile a near instant profile based on certain parameters and algorithms built into the A.I. It also has built in biometric recorders so that you cannot lie easily without being detected. I dunno man hopefully they do not ban farting in public in the near future or i am in big trouble.

Kind of odd that I would come across this posting today.
Yesterday I was watching "Eagle Eye" (again).
For those who may not have watched; it is about an A.I unit which "decides" it can better control the world than it's human builders, the military.
Well, it is not hard to figure out where all this went.
Yes, I know it was just a movie, but the most interesting thing which I really caught onto was the "background news commentary" which was about the very same things which we are now discussing with regard to the NSA. The misuse of power which could come from all this data mining is very real if in the wrong hands.

Originally posted by AlienView

Originally posted by Sleytek76
reply to post by AlienView

 

Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. It is interesting how few people agree. Apparently the modern day mind set of many who post on forums
such as ATS is if the government is doing it there must be an ulterior motive or a conspiracy. Makes you wonder
if there is an ulterior motive to the anti-government paranoia generators?

Is that how it is? If you disagree youre anti government? a terrorist?

Originally posted by Nephalim

Originally posted by AlienView

Originally posted by Sleytek76
reply to post by AlienView

 

Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. It is interesting how few people agree. Apparently the modern day mind set of many who post on forums
such as ATS is if the government is doing it there must be an ulterior motive or a conspiracy. Makes you wonder
if there is an ulterior motive to the anti-government paranoia generators?

Is that how it is? If you disagree youre anti government? a terrorist?

Don't worry about it . The NSA is an intelligence gathering agency - you have nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by teamcommander

Kind of odd that I would come across this posting today.
Yesterday I was watching "Eagle Eye" (again).
For those who may not have watched; it is about an A.I unit which "decides" it can better control the world than it's human builders, the military.
Well, it is not hard to figure out where all this went.
Yes, I know it was just a movie, but the most interesting thing which I really caught onto was the "background news commentary" which was about the very same things which we are now discussing with regard to the NSA. The misuse of power which could come from all this data mining is very real if in the wrong hands.

edit on 29-7-2013 by teamcommander because: (no reason given)

You would probably enjoy the TV series "Person of Interest". It seems to be the most realistic interpretation of data mining concerning an A.I regulator that i have seen. Plus i have a little challenge to see how many times the main actor smiles in an episode. He might even be...i dare say a robot lol

What does the NSA do with all this data? Are there people further up the foodchain whom can look through the data at their leisure, to play the markets for example, those further down the foodchain looking for terrorists are not aware of?

Also how did we go from "You say the government chips and tracks everybody? Thats just a crazy conspiracy theory" to "So the government chips and tracks everybody after all, that aright".

reply to post by TheomExperience

You would probably enjoy the TV series "Person of Interest". It seems to be the most realistic interpretation of data mining concerning an A.I regulator that i have seen. Plus i have a little challenge to see how many times the main actor smiles in an episode. He might even be...i dare say a robot lol

Talking about artificial intelligence its out there and being used by more than just government and business interests. It could be, and probably is, being used by criminals and terrorists. I know it is popular to mis-trust
government and there are reasons for this but with AI out there in the hands anyone who can manipulate it, would
you rather government gets out of the game and then let the criminals and terrorists do what they want?

Originally posted by AlienView

Originally posted by Nephalim

Originally posted by AlienView

Originally posted by Sleytek76
reply to post by AlienView

 

Very interesting post. I would have to say that you make a good point. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks. It is interesting how few people agree. Apparently the modern day mind set of many who post on forums
such as ATS is if the government is doing it there must be an ulterior motive or a conspiracy. Makes you wonder
if there is an ulterior motive to the anti-government paranoia generators?

Is that how it is? If you disagree youre anti government? a terrorist?

Don't worry about it . The NSA is an intelligence gathering agency - you have nothing to worry about.

Man, I dont mean to be rude.. but you sir are blind. You still think this is about the NSA.