Robert Bruce: Fake or Real Deal ?

I recently started learning about this guy, after a poster mention him and his books. Any ATS posters familiar with him or his methods or teachings? Wikipedia said some consider him one of the most foremost expert in OOBE.

reply to post by Nemox42


I read his first book, back before he became "commercialized" so to speak. Back then, I found his writing style more easy to understand than Robert Monroe, but less information.

Today, I can't say I've read any of his new material, as he seems to be trying to capitalize on anything psychic (several of his titles no longer deal with astral projection/OBE's anymore). I mean, it's not a bad thing, but most of the authors I've read in the past tend to stick with the same topics, as most of them are knowledgeable in certain subjects only. Also, a lot of the information that Robert has written is pretty much all over the web (NOTE: I know it doesn't just apply to him, but to most authors on the subject).

In short: He is (or was) the real deal, unless you don't believe any of this. Whenever someone asks me which authors to go for, I usually recommend Robert Bruce for beginners, and then recommend Robert Monroe & William Buhlman for the more advanced reading.

While the reading material is a good start, the best way to learn is to experiment on your own, and record what works for you and what doesn't

-fossilera

reply to post by fossilera


thanks for the info. Yea, It's hard to separate the fakes from the real sometimes. You see stuff like Sylvia brown or John Edwards, and you get this weird sense that they all just about the attention and money.

reply to post by Nemox42


Usually, before I settle down and read the books that they are creating, I look back into their bios. Take Robert Monroe for example - while he did create the foundation for the Monroe Institute (which charges a large sum nowadays to learn astral projection), he did write only 3 books - each one read like a journal of his experiences, and offered thoughts for research and encouraged people to find a working way. His goal, at the time, was to tell as many people as he could that they could do this on their own, without some fancy "magic" behind the scenes. The Institute even has free materials for all to read on their website.

William Buhlman is another author in a similar vein - he doesn't have too many books or projection aids, but he doesn't seem like the type that's trying to "sell" it to you.

if I seem to have a preference, it's because I do . I advise if you want to learn something from Bruce, you take a look into his old version of Astral Dynamics, as there's more information in that copy than the newer edition. Or, for a more "structured" course, he also released a book/training guide entitled something like 90 Day Guide to OBE.

-fossilera

a reply to: fossilera

thank you. I thought this guy was a bit funny, sounds to me he might just be another hustler spiritualist. Even aleister crowley was a scammer. With so much of these fake psychics and spiritual teachers, its hard sometime to see who is the real deal or not.

a reply to: Nemox42

A good rule of thumb (at least, by my standards) is to ask what is in it for the author? I also like to go by the year as well - think about when the internet wasn't around; everyone that had to sell something (or tried to) had to put effort into their works.

With the older Astral Projection books, you get a much better selection of content; this is where authors like Monroe excel. And on the flip-side, you get startup books like Bruce's Astral Dynamics, which is decent in content, but a lot of it can be found online.

It's a shame you weren't around when Astral Society was a large community; I learned more there than any book could have taught me (you can still find snippets of what the site looked like on Wayback).
-foss

I thought it was going to be a ghost pic of Robert the Bruce of Scotland.
Sorry OP, Don't know this one!

I used to be pretty impressed by Robert Bruce as he used to be very generous, which I am thankful for, with sharing a lot of his writing for free (not that there's anything wrong with making a living from what you do - if he didn't try to do that he wouldn't have the time to research and write in the first place). That being said, I feel he has now gone to the other extreme. For example, long promotional adverts and very expensive consultation fees.

I think a good marker is to see how important money making is to someone. Anyone on a wholesome spiritual path will need material wealth less and less as they go further along their path - realising it's the things in life that are free that are often the most precious (note: I said less and less, to live in this society you need some material wealth to afford the basics. But material requirements should lessen once one truly spiritually awakens). For instance, once you begin to progress spiritually - how many expensive homes do you need? How much designer clothes and pricey techno gadgets? etc. etc. etc.

The truth is what you really need is time out in nature as much as possible, time spent positively with people you cherish and to reflect on this mysterious existence. Any extra wealth then is neither here nor there, unless you are wanting to help others who don't have the material basics that most of us need (e.g. roof over head, basic good quality food, basic clothing etc.)

Cheers,



Aelf

a reply to: Aelfrede

As we all know spiritualism back in the early 1900s were the whole crazy, especially with the upper richer class. That era gave birth to some really talented scammers and frauds. Not that today's spiritualism movement isn't much better, cough fake ass ghost adventures or paranormal state. I've traced Crowley work all the way to pseudo-magic sources, as well as many other frauds. It's hard to weed out the fakes, even harder to find the real deal. It sad that these people have to scam desperate and sad people who miss their love ones, or scared of the real unknown in order to make a buck.

a reply to: Nemox42

Hello OP

I joined Robert Bruce's astral dynamics community out of curiosity and with a very open mind. Robert Bruce has a section in his forums where you can ask Bruce anything. So I did.

The OP on the thread asks: "Hey Robert, i have a question for you
I want to change to a different time-line, i read a answear from you:




"Past events can be 'influenced' through astral projection and lucid dreaming.

But you can't really 'change' a past event in the sense you mean.

You could go back in astral form and possess your past body to avoid a mistake or to make a change. This would create a new time line. But, the current you would still remain, re the mind split effect. So in that sense, no, it is not possible to change reality.

Influencing the past can be very helpful. If, for example, a bad thing happened that traumatized you in the past that you are still suffering from now, then current suffering can be eased by giving your past self shielding and healing. And if successful, current problems can be greatly eased."




my theory is the following, We are multidimensional beings, in a multiverse.
past present and future exestieren simultaneously,

in this world I'm here and write this contribution, in a another world I'm doing something else.

I mean i make today a OBE, and wake up in another Timeline, maybe in a another year, and life
there further ?

Similar transfer consciousness to another timeline, and live there.

sounds of logical?

I hope you understand what I mean, my english is not the best ? "


-------------

Robert Bruce replies:

Re: Switch another Reality

It is possible to actually shift to another reality.

But I do not know how to shift to a specific reality.

It is hit and miss.

This is done with intention and affirmations and meditation and concentration. Will yourself to shift to another reality.

I have done this dozens of times. It is difficult to describe an actual method. The shift is a result of the use of will and intention.

Needless to say, I am not from this reality...

My original reality was quite different from this one. And each one I have shifted to has been different in some way or other.

This current reality is the best I've found so far.

peace, robert "


-------------------

So I ask a hard question, because as you know many spiritual teachers, like many gatekeepers of information, will never narrow in on the specifics. So I reply and ask Bruce:

Quote Originally Posted by Robert Bruce View Post
It is possible to actually shift to another reality.

But I do not know how to shift to a specific reality.

It is hit and miss.

This is done with intention and affirmations and meditation and concentration. Will yourself to shift to another reality.

I have done this dozens of times. It is difficult to describe an actual method. The shift is a result of the use of will and intention.

Needless to say, I am not from this reality...

My original reality was quite different from this one. And each one I have shifted to has been different in some way or other.

This current reality is the best I've found so far.

peace, robert

My Reply:

can you be more specific? how was your original reality different from this reality? you've done this dozens of times, how or why did you shift? what is it that you prefer about this reality that elevates it above the rest of which you have been a part?

Well, when I log back in to check and see if my reply had an answer to it, the account had now been banned. Mind you, this was my first and only post to the site (I hit the ground running with direct questions as anyone should). There was "no reason" given in the ban comments and the "date at which ban will be lifted: never."

The thread was then removed. url: www.astraldynamics.com.au...

But the info was already logged on my computer so I made screenshots and saved a copy of the webpage

Screenshots:

imgur.com...
imgur.com...
imgur.com...
imgur.com...

The way I see it, money (or at least the way it is set up in today's system) requires huge premiums before you can get anything that's actually worth anything to the buyer. Ex: what can you get for a U.S. dollar these days? The dollar menu at McDonalds? Cheap plastic products? Some candy? In my own opinion I believe it's because a dollar is worth more to the taker than to the spender. Imagine if you had to purchase the very air you breathe. What quality of air could you even buy for a dollar? It would most likely be filled with all kinds of contaminants, or perhaps imported, while the real stuff would have a much higher premium. I see spirituality in the same boat when money is involved and I like to imagine the need for spiritual guidance/questions-answered similar to the need for air. No, you won't die from lack of spirituality (or perhaps you might..) but air is something you (should?) want everyone to have because it is fundamental and somewhat necessary. It can improve your life and everyone around you. Of course this necessity can be argued, perhaps in another thread, but you get my point I hope.

There are several articles regarding how to spot fake gurus/spiritual teachers floating on the web. Mostly for me, it comes down to if they are selling a product or just giving free information. In my opinion, with the internet and the ease of sharing information, there is almost no need to charge for information, especially information which will help others and thus help the spreader of this information. Even this post, I type it once, and it can be shared countless times. But if my income and very livelihood is dependent upon selling this information, I would not be able to make a living if everyone was already healed. This is the similar problem in the medical/pharmaceutical industry today. I could not make a living if everyone had already reached enlightenment.

And as one poster mentioned, the free things in life should not be overlooked because these are the things we take for granted despite their enriching value on our lives. Take a breath. How much did that cost? How much do you appreciate it?

There are nuggets of truth lying around which are free and even some which are given by false teachers. Take what is free, use wisdom, and be your own guru.

godbless

related articles:

www.shift.is...
www.meditationexpert.com...

originally posted by: Nemox42
a reply to: Aelfrede

As we all know spiritualism back in the early 1900s were the whole crazy, especially with the upper richer class. That era gave birth to some really talented scammers and frauds. Not that today's spiritualism movement isn't much better, cough fake ass ghost adventures or paranormal state. I've traced Crowley work all the way to pseudo-magic sources, as well as many other frauds. It's hard to weed out the fakes, even harder to find the real deal. It sad that these people have to scam desperate and sad people who miss their love ones, or scared of the real unknown in order to make a buck.

If you look at business or government or cults for that matter, each one has something in common: that is each one services a need or it vanishes. Do they all serve legitimate needs (i.e. hungry people needing food)? No not necessarily. But this is only based on a subjective assessment. The determining factor really amounts to, are people willing to give money (either willingly, by force, or by sheer psychological need) to this business, government, or cult. In that regard, what we observe in these cults and in these spiritual scams is someone or some group that is willing to exploit this symptom. The much bigger picture is that these are all symptoms stemming from a greater cause. This means that the entire relationship must be examined and not just one side. If there is a perpetrator and a victim, then both roles must be examined. For example if someone is stealing from your house, there is a victim (you) and a perpetrator (the thief). The thief has their own reason for being the perpetrator (perhaps your neighborhood is an easy target or they are in desperate need of money) and the victim has their own reason for being the victim (perhaps you do not lock your house doors or you do not have an installed alarm system). Applying this same rationale, the symptoms of the New Age moment pale in comparison to the reasons causing these symptoms. Most noticeable, those involved in these New Age practices are seeking something that is not offered by conventional means or by conventional religions. That's not to say that any of these institutions are offering anything objectively helpful, but that's not the determining factor. They are seeking something and are being led to believe they can attain it through these alternative means. It's no different than a kid buying Pepsi because he sees a celebrity endorse it or thinks it will make him cool. And what is Pepsi objectively? It's caramel coloring, sweetener, a blue can, and a designer label. Sure there is a distinct taste and even some would say Pepsi tastes better than Coke which has been somewhat proven by the blind taste tests conducted in the 90s. But still, Coke outsells Pepsi. Cults, businesses, governments and practically any entity that takes money has this same recipe. What makes these New Age businesses especially bad is that they do so on a much smaller, intimate scale and under the pretense of being holy or different from the aforementioned entities.

The bottom line is be vigilant and know how to spot the signs. They will play on your own insecurities, use lies and bent truths, and form a following of ranking members who will swear by the product/group that's being ushered and sold. The leader or group will pretend to have a power that validates their god-like worship and will warp your mind into thinking this way, regardless of objective truth. The ranking members of this group will only strengthen this movement and will act as soldiers to protect the lie using name-calling or any attacks necessary to achieve this. This is the case of Robert Bruce and his forum astral dynamics.

Sad to say, but if you have money, there will always be someone willing to take it whether it's done through force or through lies or through both. The only controllable variable is the "you" variable. Learn to spot the signs and enjoy the money and sanity you retain by doing so.

here is a fun thread showing what to look for:

www.astraldynamics.com.au...

Wonder what would happen if you logged on and said 'Robert Bruce, real or fake?', lol.

Of all the 'psychics', to me the one that is the most curious is Edgar Cayce. He's made some pretty amazing comments and predictions.

originally posted by: Maverick7
Wonder what would happen if you logged on and said 'Robert Bruce, real or fake?', lol.

Of all the 'psychics', to me the one that is the most curious is Edgar Cayce. He's made some pretty amazing comments and predictions.

I haven't checked out all of Edgar Cayce just yet. He was brought to my attention by David Wilcock who believes he is the reincarnate of Edgar, which could just be another claim to a special ability that most of these teachers will point to as making them super-human/trans-human etc. I will of course check out Edgar fully before making any conclusive opinion about him; hey anything is possible right?

As far as Robert Bruce, he says that he has changed reality "dozens of times" (cit: imgur.com...) which again is a claim to a special ability. However, once you press him on this his soldiers of admins/mods/senior members will flock to protect him and this lie. All threads/posts regarding this have been removed by the mods and admins who will swear this is only because they are somehow under attack (go figure, asking direct questions on an internet forum = firebombing lol). Apparently many have been pressing him on this issue for "over a year." Why not just answer the question well and fully and leave the replies up for everyone to see? I know if I could shift realities I'd be telling any and everyone willing to hear it and I'd show any and everyone willing to learn it how to do it.

But yeah, in regards to just flat out asking "real or no," I even asked in his forums if the site was just a hoax or not. Of course the answer given (not by Robert Bruce but by his flock) was that it was not a hoax. And as of this posting, all new membership to his forum has been closed and bans have been issued (cit: imgur.com...). Personally, I know this is how I would behave if I was boldly trying to hide a lie. Of course if I were hiding a lie I'd like to think I'd have much more finesse and not be so obvious doing so

Will be checking out Edgar Cayce next.

49595

a reply to: Nemox42

I did start to practice according to his method and had some interesting effects. Sadly, i never followed through on that.

anyway...i would recommend a try if youre into that sort of thing.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Nemox42

I did start to practice according to his method and had some interesting effects. Sadly, i never followed through on that.

anyway...i would recommend a try if youre into that sort of thing.

Always willing to try. Even a broken clock is right twice a day

What are the methods?

a reply to: 49595

it's been a few years since...i think i have a pdf somewhere on my PC. also..think there is plenty on the net. Just google his name and oobe...astral dynamics is the title i think. Or guide to...something....its been a while.

I have read a lot of his writing, and found his book "Energy Work" to have a lot of value, whereas "Psychic self-defense" was a little hard to get behind, specifically his method of getting rid of a bothersome spirit being as simple as crossing over moving water. I don't think spirits are bound in any way by moving water and it is more about intent and having built up your own subtle energy field to an extent to be able to deal with these things.

I like his writings and methodology for OOBE's. I learned how to lucid dream following his methods and that has been an awesome thing to pursue.

So yeah he has a lot going on, and a lot of good things to absorb, but with any spiritual endeavor, use your own judgement and follow your instincts. a reply to: Nemox42

Based on my own experience, I recommend staying away from this author. I have been believing in his lie for years, and it has done nothing but create a number of moderate/serious mental health issues for me.

His so-called "Energy Work" book is nothing more than a scam that tries to make effective use of feelings produced by psychological/neurological factors to make you believe in what he says. It is easy for one to believe that what is being stated in the book is correct, because you can "feel" the energy, but it is simply a deception. This "feeling" might make you think that you are actually making progress but you are not. What is actually happening is that your brain is producing a feeling that becomes tied with a mental "energy" construction as defined by Mr. Bruce. His books have bull# in them like cancer cure etc. His forum is not reliable either, since it has shills, people who have fallen under his deception, drug users, and others who cannot be trusted to write the truth.

There have been thousands of experiments performed in laboratory conditions that prove there is not any such thing as "energy healing" or ESP abilities. Please for the love of god do your own research and don't believe certain things you read on the internet.

a reply to: Noobian

I know this thread has been resurrected, but I liked your comment enough to bring up a point: One of the harder pills to swallow for me practicing this stuff is that if you follow a certain doctrine, you limit yourself on what you can experience.

Even in my case, that Robert Monroe guy that I tend to follow, was a broadcast exec (chances are, he knew how to connect with people). I like him because back when I first started experiencing OBE's at a young age, his first book was what explained the phenomenon. Since then, I've come up with my own experiments, and formed my own path.

On the side - It is a very real phenomenon - Whether or not one truly leaves the body (or is just having an intense lucid dream), I still have no conclusive evidence of either. It's still fun to try, and hasn't had a toll on me for the almost 20 years I've been practicing!