Some Mormons Search the Web and Find Doubt

reply to post by FlyersFan


I have a daughter-in-law who is Mormon. Her views are basically the same as many her age; let me go look for myself and see what there is to see. But even so, she sustains a connection with her faith because there is a foundation... not in the teachings but in the community.

Occasionally, members of the local Church of Latter Day Saints will come over and attempt to make her feel guilty for not attending. In this respect (I have witnessed one of these visitations) it can resemble what one hears about the behaviors of the Church of Scientology.

Still and all, she doesn't hold any grudges, she doesn't get angry and she doesn't piss-pot the faith she grew up with. I respect her choice of positions because she has the independence she seeks while still retaining her connectivity... which is no easy task.

I suspect that there are doubters of every system of belief on Earth, religious and otherwise.

this guy puts forward a good case for why the internet is killing off religions


The Internet: Where religions come to die

The internet is really where I started to doubt. I grew up in Christianity and started fading away from it in college (like most college students). Towards the end I actually wanted to get back into it and to try and really understand it and have a relationship with Jesus.

I turned to the internet for some history on the religion and that's where it hit me. I saw Zeitgeist and it was like a punch in the gut at first. I started doing some research on the religious figures and looking at their similarities to Jesus and not many actually stood up to the claims, so I dismissed ZG as false. There wasn't a whole lot of actual evidence that the claims in ZG are true. Most of the claims come from Archaya S (wrote some books on comparative religion), then they are repeated on various elementary looking websites. She claims a lot of the research comes from books that the average person cant get a hold of...she does reference them however and has a complete reference book. So its really up to the reader to decide if you believe the claims. Like most things, the answer probably lies in the middle.

I did my own research and came across the mistranslations, the editing, the missing books, and other items and just flat out didn't like it. None of these things were ever mentioned to me while I was young.

I think humans need a group to be a part of and its a basic instinct. Looking back, I enjoyed my time at church ,the trips and the friends and don't regret it at all. But I enjoyed it because I was a part of something and not because of the reasons you are supposed to have.

It is my opinion that all organized religions are bunk. As an agnostic this isn't surprising. Yet I also feel that there is a possibility of a greater power that may have created the universe, but feel that something so omnipotent would have little care for a tiny blue speck in the vast sea of the universe. Human's in their arrogance seem to think otherwise. However, I do not feel it is necessary to make people believe as I do and to rather just present facts here and there and hope they come around eventually. I'm glad that these people have found the flaws in their theological thinking and hope that with this new knowledge they can make better choices about higher powers.

Originally posted by Biigs
The day i have a problem with Mormons, is the day i see a news article about Mormons declaring some sort of war.

They are nice people, leave them be. It may seem silly to us but they are harmless. Scientology should get all the flak the Mormons are getting right now in my opinion, perhaps the Mormons should borrow Scientology's lawyers

Grow up and move on to issues that actually matter or focus on sections of other religions that are destructive.

Most of the rank and file members of religions like the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses ARE nice. It is the leaders and directors behind the curtain that should be examined closely and thoroughly by ANYBODY that decides to put their life, especially their spiritual life, in the hands of these men. However, a form of brainwashing over many years creates a kind of fear and paranoia about participating in such an examination.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) when they do take a courageous approach and actually decide to do historical research and discover the truth about some of their religion's founders and the real reasons behind some of their oppressive doctrines and dictates, they find themselves in a crisis. Now, they have to decide whether to leave or stay. That sounds easy to most mainstream Christians, but, in reality, it is not that simple for those who belong to these kinds of groups, especially if they have been raised in them.

If they leave, they are many times punished by having to experience the disdain, formal chastisement, and even shunning by other members...even close family. If they don't toe the line, they can be tossed out like yesterday's garbage, and made to feel abandoned and unworthy. Many suffer for years with this crisis and many have mental breakdowns over it. I am not being hyperbolic....it is true.

A lot of mainstream Christians don't realize that these outer fringe organizations such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons treat those who choose to leave their "cult" in this manner. It is not spoken about that openly and the mental conditioning that goes on by these organizations is difficult to break away from. I have seen some very loving and decent people choose to break away and then suffer because a man-made organized religion treats them as if they spat on God himself. They equate their "cult" to God's organization and brainwash their followers to think that as well.

I try and keep respect for the Temple and Mormons, as I do all Faiths, on principle. Having a couple in the in-laws side of the family makes it important too.

Having said that? A number of years ago a fraudster took the LDS Temple in Salt Lake City for a fortune in forgeries and phony documents claiming to prove the founders of the Church were not who they were portrayed to be and the whole thing was basically a sham.

It's not the fact someone forged up the documents or the fact the same someone tried to peddle them to the Church. That happens to all Faiths, I'll bet. It's that the Mormons were so insecure about their own Faith and it's history, they BOUGHT them to bury them and make them vanish ...just in case they were right!

Imagine a fraudster trying that at Vatican City or ...even more amusing to contemplate, pitching this to the Mullah's in Iran for Islam (Or Sunnis for that matter). I don't think he'd live long enough to understand the depth of his mistake in the last case. lol.... A world service, perhaps.

Point is...if the Mormon Temple elders are JUST uncertain enough to fall for such a scam? How is it others have such Faith? Oh well.... Like I said, I still respect the followers and their right to a belief on Principle.

This phenomena is equally as common in the Islamic world.

Amir Ahmad Nasr, the author of "My Isl@m" and known online as the "Sudanese Thinker" of the blog of the same name, basically recounts his own experience of finding doubt and how important the internet was in exposing him to other ways of thinking.

Like me, Nasr hasn't become an atheist, but he has renounced the fundamentalist tripe of the Islam he was indoctrinated into as a child.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I believe Mormons have been finding doubt long before Al Gore invented the intranetwebz.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I was a non-mormon who grew up in Sandy,Utah. I loved the people and often think about moving back because I miss the lifestyle.


The block I grew up on had many kids over 100 and we were all like one big family. If I was bad at a neighbors house I new I would get in the same trouble I would get in at home. Also if I was over at lunch or dinner time I would be feed. It was like having 20 moms and dads.


When we first moved in my mom had breast cancer and had to be in the hospital for many weeks my dad had to keep working and caring for my mom. The neighbors who barely knew us made sure life went on as normal for us kids. They would take turns and these people did not even know us and they also knew we were not mormon.


Right or wrong these people have it right. I wish my life was different and I could move back and raise my family in the same way. I wish I had never left. But I guess that is life.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
Mormons...oddballs really for falling for it to be honest.

No, they aren't. Especially if they don't have any background and are raised in a secular environment. If the Red Sea parted whats so off the wall with an angel appearing to a 14 year old? I'm an honorably discharged rescue swimmer from the Coast Guard. Have a few years of college. I'm not an idiot. The Mormons come along teaching that families can be together forever. That's nice.

They teach that there are only two churches, the church of Jesus Christ and the church of the devil. And then don't be surprised if some Protestants come to your door and try to reject what the missionaries from the Mormon church are saying and act rudely. I had no less than 3 ministers act inappropriately and one of them came to my door. With their animosity, they play into the Mormons theology.

And the Mormons do something that helps these antagonist abusive Protestant priests, they withold information about Helen Mar Kimball and smooth over the racist concepts with sophistication. And they don't act abusive, so they are at least a pleasure to have around versus some busy body priests who might come to your door.

reply to post by borntowatch


Learning more will only make you an Atheist!

Stay ignorant or learn! either way, that mind set will disappear soon!

Its a win-win situation, all we need is time.

reply to post by Miracula


Its a business scam nothing more, they make 7 billion a year despite only 1.7% of people in the USA being mormon.
You have to give 10% of your earnings to the church.
It isn't a religion its a scam which oddballs have fallen for.

Wow, hate Mormons much? You make it sound as if Mormons are oblivious to the world that goes on around them, as if they are insulated from the other viewpoints, and as though they have no intellectual thought- and then you offer up your own as if to suggest that you have some profound knowledge and understanding that others are not privy to, as though your intellectual working are far superior to that of others. Have you consider the alternative, that your own viewpoints may be beholden to your own personal values, and the temptations that have jaded your judgment? Ultimately, you attack religion and faith because you have none- ponder on that for a moment.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Miracula

 

Its a business scam nothing more, they make 7 billion a year despite only 1.7% of people in the USA being mormon.
You have to give 10% of your earnings to the church.
It isn't a religion its a scam which oddballs have fallen for.

All of the churches are a scam.

Catholicism - no marriage for priests and the sexual repression results in child sexual abuse which they then attempt to cover up. Selling indulgences. Not exactly a Biblical concept but if someone can engage in fornication and the money be used to feed the poor, not altogether an evil concept.

Mormonism- well we've covered that.

Baptists.- fairly standardly you will hear the concept "once saved, always saved". There is no Biblical support for that.

All churches which preach for money are violating scripture, which leaves you with two churches that don't preach for money, Catholicism and Mormonism.

The Bible may very well be true, but non of the churches have aligned their doctrine with the Bible. Not one of them.

reply to post by Miracula


I agree, It sickens me to think that their are multi million pound preachers out there, I bet the Catholics could solve world hunger If they just sold the land the owned...will they? nope. hypocrites the lot of them.

Originally posted by onthedownlow
Wow, hate Mormons much?

I just said above Mormons are much more congenial and polite then their competitors in Protestantism.

Pointing out failures in doctrine is not hatred. It's called a verification process.

And Mormons take this verification process PERSONALLY as an attack on their person or their group of people.

It's this kind of thinking that is cult mentality. It's way of reacting that you are taught to reinforce your beliefs.

That's how cults function.

Alright, I was raised LDS, Latter Day Saint a.k.a Mormon not to be confused with the direct line of Smith's that still use Polygamy.

I left said church when I was 16, why? Not because of the fundemental core values and morals any said LDS member has. Because of the Holy Rollers and the institution that is Religion.

Tithing 10% is no different from Joe Shmo~ Sending a collection plate through any congregation.

Did you know Mormons have a Store House??? This is where they urge it's members to gather there food supply from, why? Because they feels these are the last days and if SHTF you have food to survive off of.

If you are hurt and can't work, the members therein go above and beyond for there members to ensure survivability.

Family is forever is a core value and a nice one at that. Choose the right (CTA) to never stray and make choices that will taint the waters another core foundation.

Here on ATS we can debate symantics over any said religion. It does not however change the high standard of morals and values this religion teaches it's young. That itself is the main reason I am thankfull for the church. It gave me a set of standards to practice and utilize.

I don't however feel that this is how they say "The One and Only True Chruch" I do however and have found that the stories in all the books across all religions have the same core values and morales as teached in the Mormon religion. This is the only truth I found.

As I said I do not practice any religion. I am non-denominational as I do believe in the Divine and Ascended Masters as well as there teachings.

I also understand that any religion can be debated into the ground and any member of any religion to pound sand.

There's a lot of stories about every religion. Some good, some bad. In the end does it matter? Someone believes in god? Does this make them crazier than someone who believes in nothing? No, there is only judgements cast from people who "Can't believe, you believe this crap"~

Well, I love Chili Cheese Fritos~ And cupcakes...

Originally posted by onthedownlow
Wow, hate Mormons much?

There is always one who will get on a thread like this and shout 'you hate ____' (fill in the blank)
:shk: I have said that Mormons are the nicest people I've ever met.
How you get 'I hate mormon's' out of that is absurd.

Have you consider the alternative, that your own viewpoints may be beholden to your own personal values, and the temptations that have jaded your judgment?

Dude .. it's not a matter of 'viewpoint' or 'personal values' ... it's a matter of FACT and TRUTH.
As the article said ... people are indoctrinated into an organized religion and, when given access
to facts and historical information, those people discover that their organized religion is based
on BUNK. That's fact and truth ... not 'viewpoint' or 'personal values'.

The article states that the internet is helping people to discover truth.
That's why it's important that the internet stay free and not under government control

Ultimately, you attack religion and faith because you have none- ponder on that for a moment.

Ultimately, you have no idea what my religion and/or faith is ... you assume too much.
So ponder on that for a moment ... will ya'??

reply to post by FlyersFan

The article states that the internet is helping people to discover truth.
That's why it's important that the internet stay free and not under government control

This is absolutely true Flyer. Just so you know as someone who practiced said topic of religious practice when I was younger, there was nothing in your OP that referenced a single notation of hate



The internet helped me realize I was making my spaghetti wrong... How does that statement corelate with the OP? The Fundemental Teachings are there, it doesn't mean you have it right. This is true in every religion.

reply to post by onthedownlow

You make it sound as if Mormons are oblivious to the world that goes on around them

If I may, Mormons are not oblivious to the world that goes on around them, however, they are (especially the church leadership) willfully ignorant about their own history and the lies that the original founders peddled. Since the evidence which contradicts most of the LDS faith is relativity young (less than 200 years), it is much different than other faiths which are "ancient" in comparison.

as if they are insulated from the other viewpoints

For the most part they are...

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

Those verses from proverbs are some of the most important in the Christian faith and as an ex-Mormon myself I know from experience the importance of those verses is even greater within the LDS faith. You are not supposed to question the theology of the faith, because there is no room for interpretation. They believe that these ARE the later days, that the keys to the priesthood are here on earth and are in the hands of the elders of the church, that the president of the church is in direct communion with God.