I Have Been Wrong

reply to post by Goldcurrent


You are aware that in order to seed a cloud, you must first have........wait for it..........a cloud.

So if you use common sense in your definition, cloud seeding has nothing at all to do with geo-engineering. It's a practice that has been going on for decades. Talk about muddying the waters. Is every contrail a chemtrail because of it containing the chemical H20?

reply to post by Goldcurrent


How far up an arse does a head have to be before it decides to ignore known and proven science in order to justify utterly unrealistic Internet claims?

Originally posted by Goldcurrent

Relying on technologies developed during World War II, such proposals were designed to alter weather systems in order to obtain more favourable climate conditions on a regional scale. One of the best-known techniques is cloud seeding

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I'm pretty sure you can comprehend plain English so I'll assume the tactic is confusion and misdirection. Glad to see you've muddied this forum to complete semantics like any good DEFENSE lawyer would.

edit on 6-8-2013 by Goldcurrent because: (no reason given)

You missed a bit off

Cloud seeding works on a regional scale, seeking to influence weather systems for the benefit of agriculture. Present-day geoengineering proposals have focused on the global scale

Originally posted by Goldcurrent

Relying on technologies developed during World War II, such proposals were designed to alter weather systems in order to obtain more favourable climate conditions on a regional scale. One of the best-known techniques is cloud seeding

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I'm pretty sure you can comprehend plain English so I'll assume the tactic is confusion and misdirection. Glad to see you've muddied this forum to complete semantics like any good DEFENSE lawyer would.:roll

Let's have a look at he definition you posted and compare it to the extract you have used above:

geoengineering, the large-scale manipulation of a specific process central to controlling Earth’s climate for the purpose of obtaining a specific benefit. Global climate is controlled by the amount of solar radiation received by Earth and also by the fate of this energy within the Earth system—that is, how much is absorbed by Earth’s surface and how much is reflected or reradiated back into space. The reflectance of solar radiation is controlled by several mechanisms, including Earth’s surface albedo and cloud coverage and the presence in the atmosphere of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2). If geoengineering proposals are to influence global climate in any meaningful way, they must intentionally alter the relative influence of one of these controlling mechanisms.

Firstly we see that geoengineering is about controlling the EARTH'S CLIMATE, whereas, as you have pointed out, cloud seeding can affect "climate conditions on a regional scale".

so there's the first difference - a matter of scale.

Now let's look at the geoengineering mechanism in your definition: "Global climate is controlled by the amount of solar radiation received ...etc"

cloud seeding is, of course, about generating rain by providing "seeds" into clouds for rain to form - clearly this is NOT a mechanism to affect the amount of solar radiation received.

I hope that you can now see why the pain English you are so quick to snidely congratulate me for understanding is indeed plain, and shows that cloud seeding does not meet the definition you posted for geoengineering.

reply to post by Goldcurrent

geoengineering, the large-scale manipulation of a specific process central to controlling Earth’s climate for the purpose of obtaining a specific benefit. Global climate is controlled by the amount of solar radiation received by Earth and also by the fate of this energy within the Earth system—that is, how much is absorbed by Earth’s surface and how much is reflected or reradiated back into space. The reflectance of solar radiation is controlled by several mechanisms, including Earth’s surface albedo and cloud coverage and the presence in the atmosphere of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2). If geoengineering proposals are to influence global climate in any meaningful way, they must intentionally alter the relative influence of one of these controlling mechanisms.

Yeah, I guess if I cherry picked my sources I could make a case that the sky is chartreuse.

Actually if you would have read further down you would have seen this...

Geoengineering proposals were first developed in the middle of the 20th century. Relying on technologies developed during World War II, such proposals were designed to alter weather systems in order to obtain more favourable climate conditions on a regional scale. One of the best-known techniques is cloud seeding, a process that attempts to bring rain to parched farmland by dispersing particles of silver iodide or solid carbon dioxide into rain-bearing clouds.

www.britannica.com...

From your own source it seems to show cloud seeding was what they based geoengineering on, and not cloud seeding being geoengineering....

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Goldcurrent

 

You are aware that in order to seed a cloud, you must first have........wait for it..........a cloud.

Definition of CLOUD
1
: a visible mass of particles of condensed vapor (as water or ice) suspended in the atmosphere of a planet (as the earth) or moon

definition

Definition of CONTRAIL
: streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane or rocket at high altitudes .

definition

So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

Therefore, contrail + silver iodide = contrail + chemical = chemtrail.

Every cloud has a silver lining!

Originally posted by OratoryHeist

So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

Well no, you wouldn't.

It would be like seeding solid rock in order to grow corn. Contrails don't produce rain and any ice particles that may fall from contrails (virga) quickly evapourate in the warmer air below.

To make it rain, you need to seed clouds that are lower in the atmosphere and moisture bearing. Though how well it really works remains a mute point.

reply to post by OratoryHeist

So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

You can do that, but your not going to get rain..

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

Therefore, contrail + silver iodide = contrail + chemical = chemtrail.

Every cloud has a silver lining!

well that would be cloud seeding.

but it isn't going to make any rain.

and since cloud seeding planes typically fly at a few thousand feet (

Originally posted by OratoryHeist

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Goldcurrent

 

You are aware that in order to seed a cloud, you must first have........wait for it..........a cloud.

Definition of CLOUD
1
: a visible mass of particles of condensed vapor (as water or ice) suspended in the atmosphere of a planet (as the earth) or moon

definition

Definition of CONTRAIL
: streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane or rocket at high altitudes .

definition

So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

Therefore, contrail + silver iodide = contrail + chemical = chemtrail.

Every cloud has a silver lining!

That is an extremely contrived way to try and prove a point.

Perhaps you are unaware that cloud seeding is practised on cumulous clouds around 10,000ft as these are the clouds that produce rain. Cirrus clouds at 30,000ft never, ever produce rain and contrails are the same as cirrus clouds?

You might well seed cirrus clouds with silver iodide, but the net result would be........nothing. But yay, you would have proven seeding cirrus is a reality!

But isn't that a rather facetious standpoint?

Originally posted by OratoryHeist

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Goldcurrent

 

You are aware that in order to seed a cloud, you must first have........wait for it..........a cloud.

Definition of CLOUD
1
: a visible mass of particles of condensed vapor (as water or ice) suspended in the atmosphere of a planet (as the earth) or moon

definition

Definition of CONTRAIL
: streaks of condensed water vapor created in the air by an airplane or rocket at high altitudes .

definition

So, in order to seed clouds you would inject silver iodide into a contrail.

Therefore, contrail + silver iodide = contrail + chemical = chemtrail.

Every cloud has a silver lining!

Cows eat grass. That grass is broken down by the cow's stomach acids. A by-product of that process is methane gas. Said gas builds pressure and relieves it's pressure by escaping through the cow's ass. It forms a cloud. so you have chemicals (methane) in a cloud. therefore=chemcloud.

Yea, it sounded dumb when I though of it too. On paper, it's just as dumb.

Chemtrails are fantasy. cow farts are real. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

All contrails are technically chemtrails, the name contrail explains the reason they exist, the exhaust is always a chemical trail. As far as burning elements to get a color, that does not apply to chemtrails, the injection is done after the burner to boost the power of the exhaust, it is supposedly done with water to increase efficiency, a small amount of water can greatly increase power output. What the chemical properties of the water is I don't know. I also do not know if this system is used on all aircraft today, it seems to me it would cut costs of fuel down a lot if the practice was utilized consistantly. It would be very easy to adjust the water content and still be water. Water is not H20, not real water, it is a complex chemical with many additional metals. You could store the water in an aluminum tank with highly oxidative properties and it would add aluminum to the water. A complex combination of a required special storage tank could convert plain water to a contrail without anyone knowing it. It could also do things to jet fuel. When thinking outside the box, it is very good to look at what the box itself is made of and it's properties.

The people who design these aircraft for Boeing and Lockheed are very intelligent, if someone approached them and desired to have 3 ppb of something enter the exhaust stream. they could design a oxidizing part that would cause this to be incorporated into the exhaust stream that would both boost power output and create a chemtrail. Nothing would technically have to be added to the fuels.

reply to post by rickymouse


No Ricky, the name contrail explains what they are. You can have a chemical exhaust trail without there being any contrail at all. Contrail equals chemtrail ONLY in the sense that water is a chemical. The chemical exhaust you refer to is present while ever the engines are running, the contrail only appears under specific conditions.

Chemtrails are already defined as ADDITIONAL chemical additives other than jet exhaust so there is no need for you to muddy the waters ( no pun intended).

Water injection to increase thrust is very old hat. You saw it on aircraft like the B-47, even the 707 and DC-8, but not today. You supposition about reducing fuel burn is exactly why modern aircraft se HBPR engines, which I have explained a few times on this site, you may care to look for that explanation as I am currently on my phone on a break at work and do don't have the time, suffice to say they extract only 10% or so of their thrust from burning fuel, the rest is produced by squeezing ambient air, which produces contrails rom the pressure differential.

Originally posted by waynos

That is an extremely contrived way to try and prove a point.

Not at all. By definition a contrail - condensed vapor trail - is also a form of cloud.

Perhaps you are unaware that cloud seeding is practised on cumulous clouds around 10,000ft as these are the clouds that produce rain. Cirrus clouds at 30,000ft never, ever produce rain and contrails are the same as cirrus clouds?

What you are talking about is 'static seeding'; there is also a process called 'dynamic seeding'.

Seeding itself is practiced at differing altitudes and differing temperatures. The solar radiation management studies have involved injecting dust particulate into the atmosphere. So it's not just about the silver iodide and cloud seeding.

You might well seed cirrus clouds with silver iodide, but the net result would be........nothing. But yay, you would have proven seeding cirrus is a reality!

Your evidence to back up this claim is where?

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
Your evidence to back up this claim is where?

High-level clouds, called cirrus clouds, can reach heights of 20,000 feet (6,000 meters) and are typically thin. They do not produce rain and often indicate fair weather. They are usually made up of ice.

science.nationalgeographic.com...

Cirrus clouds are high and thin and made entirely of ice crystals. Forming above 20,000 feet in the atmosphere, they often look like wisps of white hair. Cirrus clouds, which are a sign of warm moist air rising up over cold air, are sometimes an early signal that thickening clouds could bring light rain or snow within one or two days.

www.wxdude.com...

High-level clouds occur above about 20,000 feet and are given the prefix “cirro.” Due
to cold tropospheric temperatures at these levels, the clouds primarily are composed
of ice crystals, and often appear thin, streaky, and white (although a low sun angle,
e.g., near sunset, can create an array of color on the clouds). The three main types of
high clouds are cirrus, cirrostratus, and cirrocumulus.
Cirrus clouds are wispy, feathery, and composed entirely of ice crystals. They often
are the first sign of an approaching warm front or upper-level jet streak. Unlike cirrus,
cirrostratus clouds form more of a widespread, veil-like layer (similar to what stratus
clouds do in low levels). When sunlight or moonlight passes through the hexagonalshaped ice crystals of cirrostratus clouds, the light is dispersed or refracted (similar to
light passing through a prism) in such a way that a familiar ring or halo may form. As a
warm front approaches, cirrus clouds tend to thicken into cirrostratus, which may, in
turn, thicken and lower into altostratus, stratus, and even nimbostratus.
Finally, cirrocumulus clouds are layered clouds permeated with small cumuliform
lumpiness. They also may line up in “streets” or rows of clouds across the sky
denoting localized areas of ascent (cloud axes) and descent (cloud-free channels).

www.crh.noaa.gov...

Cirrus clouds are too high and thin, and aren't the right type for rain, even if you were to seed them.

Originally posted by network dude

Cows eat grass. That grass is broken down by the cow's stomach acids. A by-product of that process is methane gas. Said gas builds pressure and relieves it's pressure by escaping through the cow's ass. It forms a cloud. so you have chemicals (methane) in a cloud. therefore=chemcloud.

Yea, it sounded dumb when I though of it too. On paper, it's just as dumb.

Chemtrails are fantasy. cow farts are real. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

You know what they say - ignorance is bliss. Keep up with the bliss Network dude!

Originally posted by Zaphod58

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
Your evidence to back up this claim is where?

As a
warm front approaches, cirrus clouds tend to thicken into cirrostratus, which may, in
turn, thicken and lower into altostratus, stratus, and even nimbostratus.

www.crh.noaa.gov...

Cirrus clouds are too high and thin, and aren't the right type for rain, even if you were to seed them.

However, from the info you provided, cirrus clouds can change into stratus clouds if a warm front is approaching. Stratus clouds are rain producing, if its warm. So if you know a warm front is coming, you can go out and lay some silver iodide (or whatever) in good knowledge that you will be getting a cloud layer.

And I'll ask again, can you provide some evidence that clearly states 'cirrus clouds are too high and thin to be seeded'?

Originally posted by OratoryHeist
You know what they say - ignorance is bliss. Keep up with the bliss Network dude!

Now THAT what original! how does such a witty person find time to peruse these forums? I will take a lesson from you, but I wonder, would you mind if I used that same saying from time to time?

Oh, I am one blissful MFer. Blissful indeed.

chemtrails are just hiding planet X. were all gonna die!

reply to post by OratoryHeist


I never said cirrus can't be seeded, only that there would be no point. Can you show evidence they ever have been seeded?

reply to post by OratoryHeist

And I'll ask again, can you provide some evidence that clearly states 'cirrus clouds are too high and thin to be seeded'?

Can you show any evidence that cirrus clouds are being seeded?

Do you actually understand how and why clouds are seeded?