The Language of Vampyr

a reply to: Anaana

I don't mind this at all, after all it is our tutelary Goddess Brigantia, and you're right we can readily compare a statue of Brigantia.



with a local to me statue of Queen Victoria;



There is then of course a play on the name and the suggestion that the Monarch was the very personification of Heavenly Power and Victory, a subtle form of magic and suggestion, these days it is more likely to be Victoria Beckham, but still the same old, i shouldn't worry.

a reply to: Kantzveldt

So the symbolism in the Queen Victoria statue is blatant to anyone who has the pleasure of a link to your thoughts: www.abovetopsecret.com...

You are no doubt my favorite author on this site.

On topic(ish) -

Why? To what end?

It's not like any of the layman walking around and viewing these more modern statues see the correlations between god(ess) references, yet the artist was clearly invoking such. Is the Queen stoking her own ego?

This is a perfect example of the double meaning, to the initiated. So where does the power reside? Does one create such monuments because they are powerful? Or do they obtain such power by invoking the Gods?

And is God just double speak for understanding the science of physically walking through a wall?

a reply to: Rosinitiate

In many ways the British Empire drew inspiration from the Roman, what most don't realize about that is the extent to which religious observance dictated public and private life, all Divine principles were incorporated into the Republican calendar such that pretty much everyday was a Holy day, thus the state could benefit from every aspect of Divine favour, by honouring Victory it was considered you were more likely to achieve it, the Romans understood the importance of alignment to Divine rule, as had others before them, things fell slowly apart with the cult of the emperor for which they had no historical premise.

The Neo-classical revival did of course involve the restoration of a limited number of the classical archetypes within public places, not to be overtly worshiped but it was sort of hoped that some of the old magic would rub off in terms of inspiration, that recognition of the principle is what counts, and individuals could be suggested as the very embodiment of such by adopting classical guise in their portrayal, the reason they do so is because it works, the mind makes direct association.

So the British Empire had Victory as it's central theme as projected through the cult of the Monarch Victoria, confidence displayed through the Divine archetype, alignment with the Heavens, the degree of success i suppose depends upon the extent to which Victory has been honoured in the land and whether people still believe in her, in the case of Britain the Romans had dedicated the entire island to her as Britannia, a version of Brigantia that the Romans associated with Minerva.

A tutelary goddess. A Romano-Celtic goddess who was often associated with the Roman goddess Minerva . During the reign of Claudius Caesar, the Romans conquered Britain in AD 43, they named the new province after the goddess, Britannia.

Thanks for the kind words much appreciated...

I read the original post and the first few pages... But can't read 170 pages of comments...

I'm curious...

Did anyone speak to(get a email reply) from the group OP brings up in the original post, and did anyone ever get to the bottom of what they were up to?

a reply to: IamPrepared
There has been dialog between members here and members there. As far as any conclusions erg I'm not to sure about that one. Its still an ongoing discussion a few maybe 10 pages back there was a summary I think.

originally posted by: IamPrepared
I read the original post and the first few pages... But can't read 170 pages of comments...

I'm curious...

Did anyone speak to(get a email reply) from the group OP brings up in the original post, and did anyone ever get to the bottom of what they were up to?

Try reading every 3 pages, when you lose context go back a page and so on. Might help.

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
There is then of course a play on the name and the suggestion that the Monarch was the very personification of Heavenly Power and Victory, a subtle form of magic and suggestion, these days it is more likely to be Victoria Beckham, but still the same old, i shouldn't worry.

No worries

I placed that as common parlance, exo- rather than esoteric.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
It's not like any of the layman walking around and viewing these more modern statues see the correlations between god(ess) references, yet the artist was clearly invoking such. Is the Queen stoking her own ego?

The Queen was dead when the memorial was commissioned (memorial should be a big clue there actually), so no, it wasn't to stoke her ego. Also, this is a display of global power, and Victoria the Empress, not the Queen. Brittannia may be a word of one of the stories that the memorial is telling but still, only exoterically not esoterically, and that's what I'm aiming at. But, Britain is a control system certainly.

originally posted by: Anaana

What I suspect is that there is a potential here to illustrate how you can differentiate between The Control System from A control system and how language correlates to that.

That’s my idea anyway...thoughts?

Only the thought that I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the above -

- and I hope it will be possible to explain in somewhat simplified terms, as I am fascinated by what you've brought up here but am dealing with (hormone/medication related) brain 'fogginess' at present..

originally posted by: lostgirl
Only the thought that I can't wait to hear your thoughts on the above -

- and I hope it will be possible to explain in somewhat simplified terms, as I am fascinated by what you've brought up here but am dealing with (hormone/medication related) brain 'fogginess' at present..

Signs, so far, indicate a slow burner. There is a need for participation, but there are no right and wrong answers. And simple entirely relative.

Fogginess could have it's benefits

a reply to: Anaana

Oh...I was hoping you would express your thoughts on 'how' the memorial might "differentiate between The control system and A control system".

Are you talking about 'control system' in the Jacque Vallee sense?

Do you think there are 'esoteric' as well as 'exoteric' ideas represented in the memorial?

originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: Anaana

Oh...I was hoping you would express your thoughts on 'how' the memorial might "differentiate between The control system and A control system".

No, sorry I wasn't clearer, the idea was to utilise the memorial, as a tool, to illustrate the differential. My merely telling you what I see wouldn't serve any purpose other than that. It also sounds like an awful lot of work on my part for no perceivable return.

originally posted by: lostgirl
Are you talking about 'control system' in the Jacque Vallee sense?

I don't know, what is the "Jacque Vallee sense", from your point of view?

originally posted by: lostgirl
Do you think there are 'esoteric' as well as 'exoteric' ideas represented in the memorial?

Yes. I can "read" some of them, but not all of them.

Thomas Brock, according to legend, was made Sir Brock when the memorial was unveiled. King George V so moved, dubbed him a knight on the spot. Brock learnt his craft in the potteries in the Midlands, specifically at Royal Worcester, working with fine porcelain he developed the skills that would enable him to be apprenticed to John Foley in 1866.

My great-grandparents, Sarah and Arthur, were from families that worked the land around Worcester, but by the time Victoria died, they had made the move to Birmingham via a prolonged stint in service to one of the big estates. Sarah's grandfather, who'd've been a similar age to Brock, was a farm labourer. He perhaps dug out the clay that Brock worked, or tended the wheat that supplied his daily bread. On his daughter's birth certificate he signed his name with an "x". School cost money, and it cost the family money to lose an able pair of hands to schooling. Life was hard and short. The mind set, that sees the long term gain of education, was a luxury most labourers and their families could not afford. Under Queen Victoria, by the close of the 19th century, education, in principle, would be made free for all children. John though saw to it that his own daughter could read and write, and his grandson signed my mother's birth certificate in an elegant copperplate hand.

As I previously inferred, when I first saw the monument, I assumed that the artist must have been a Freemason. I could find no evidence of that at all, and you usually can, they're not shy about highlighting their more illustrious past members. Though I had never heard of him before, he does appear to fit into that category...so not a Mason (in the speculative sense) he clearly he knew of the Mysteries and that may stem from his membership of a private gentleman's club, interestingly enough situated on Pall Mall, a stones throw from the memorial.

The club was founded as a meeting place for men and women who enjoy the life of the mind. Over the years the membership criteria have been widened and now extend to persons of attainment or promise in any field of an intellectual or artistic nature and of substantial value to the community.

Today many of the Members of the Athenæum, indeed a majority, are professionals concerned with science, engineering or medicine, but the clergy, lawyers, writers, artists, civil servants and academics of all disciplines are also heavily represented on the roll, with a small number from business and politics.

We are proud of the high distinction of many of our number, proudest perhaps of those, past and present who have won a Nobel Prize, totalling over fifty-two at the last count, including at least one in each category of the prize.

1902 saw the first award to be held by a member - this was the prize for medicine (the first of twelve to be held in that category). Prizes for Physics and for Chemistry followed two years later, our first for Literature did not come until 1907, the Peace Prize in 1949 and Economics in 1972. The latest Nobel Prizes to be awarded to Members were those for Peace and Medicine, in 1998 and 2001. Portraits and biographies of all are inscribed in a memorial volume to be seen in the club, on the first floor landing.

www.athenaeumclub.co.uk...

I have bolded the "women" bit, as they were not welcome until after the 21st century had got into it's swing.

I haven't been able to find much about that seemingly illustrious current membership, you have to be a member to see who's a member and my invite has clearly got lost in the post. I did find this list of prior members though...

www.victorianweb.org...

I remember having some rant or other, in my youth, as you do, where I said it was an obligation to vote because women had fought and died for my right to do so. My brother shot back, they didn't die so that women like you could vote. That stopped me in my tracks, he had a point. There is a kind of wonder therefore, at being able to "read" what Brock has written, over a century later about things I was never supposed to know. My brother has recently been admitted to the Freemasons. I still have the wrong genitals, but I can read what my brother has been told.

a reply to: Anaana

'Jacque Vallee' control system - hard for me to put in words, but basically his research has led him to feel that UFO phenomena are not extra-terrestrial, but are something 'supernatural' (for lack of a better word) -

- and are the same phenomena responsible for 'experiences' of faeries and such (which are prevalent world-wide in differing descriptive terms and forms)..


If you are inclined, I would love to hear about the esoterica you are able to "read" in the statue, as well as "the Mysteries" which you feel that Brock "knew of"..

originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: Anaana

'Jacque Vallee' control system - hard for me to put in words, but basically his research has led him to feel that UFO phenomena are not extra-terrestrial, but are something 'supernatural' (for lack of a better word) -

- and are the same phenomena responsible for 'experiences' of faeries and such (which are prevalent world-wide in differing descriptive terms and forms)..

It may be hard to put into words but here on ATS that is pretty much what we have to work with...and that is really what this particular side bar (to this thread) is about. If you cannot put it into words, perhaps it is best disregarded - for the time being. What might, although I make no promises, help is if we consider Stafford Beer's assertion that The Purpose of a System is what it does

If a complex system produces a given outcome, or if a given outcome emerges from a complex system, then we may assume some purpose linked to this outcome.

This is a useful guide for investigation and interpretation. Ignore the official purpose of the system, ignore what the designers and custodians of a system say, and concentrate on its actual behaviour.

Conversely, if there is some unexplained pattern of behaviour, look for a system whose purpose this pattern reveals. (We often can't see the system directly, but we infer its hidden presence because this helps to make sense of some observed pattern of behaviour.)

www.users.globalnet.co.uk...

originally posted by: lostgirl
If you are inclined, I would love to hear about the esoterica you are able to "read" in the statue, as well as "the Mysteries" which you feel that Brock "knew of"..

I am trying to. Have you looked at the memorial? Is there nothing that engages your interest, that you feel able to relate to, however small? Or to offer another route, one that intrigues you, confuses you? Anything?

This isn't about me showing off what I know, my life is dotted with quite enough in the way of futile exercises, thank you very much. I can tell you and it mean nothing, or we can look at it together until understanding develops.

originally posted by: Anaana
Have you looked at the memorial? Is there nothing that engages your interest, that you feel able to relate to, however small? Or to offer another route, one that intrigues you, confuses you? Anything?

This isn't about me showing off what I know, my life is dotted with quite enough in the way of futile exercises, thank you very much. I can tell you and it mean nothing, or we can look at it together until understanding develops.

There is a huge difference between "showing off what [you] know" and 'sharing knowledge' -

- especially when you've peaked the curiosity of someone who is interested in conjectures you introduced but has no knowledge 'base' from which to draw speculations or form contributory ideas of their own..


I have indeed "looked at the memorial" - but aside from being intrigued by your supposition that Brock "clearly knew of The Mysteries" and intensely curious to know what "The Mysteries" entail and how the memorial illustrates for you the speculation that Brock "knew of" them - I'm getting nothing from the memorial except an appreciation for the history which it represents and the artistic esthetic in it's composition..

I'm sorry I haven't anything better to offer you than the "futile exercise" of imparting knowledge on an ignorant American housewife in order to grant her the means to develop understanding on the topic you raised...

Perhaps someone more learned will come along so that you can be engaged in a discussion more worthy of your time and effort.

originally posted by: lostgirl
There is a huge difference between "showing off what [you] know" and 'sharing knowledge' -

Yes, sharing implies I get something in return.

originally posted by: lostgirl
- especially when you've peaked the curiosity of someone who is interested in conjectures you introduced but has no knowledge 'base' from which to draw speculations or form contributory ideas of their own..

I had no knowledge base until I formed one, until my curiousity sent me in search of answers. This conversation was about creativity, or it was supposed to be. If you cannot be creative I don't know what to suggest.

originally posted by: lostgirl
I have indeed "looked at the memorial" - but aside from being intrigued by your supposition that Brock "clearly knew of The Mysteries" and intensely curious to know what "The Mysteries" entail and how the memorial illustrates for you the speculation that Brock "knew of" them - I'm getting nothing from the memorial except an appreciation for the history which it represents and the artistic esthetic in it's composition..

The memorial is a complete cosmology of Britain as a naval power. It uses the Mysteries to impound that power. At that point in time, to have constructed so accurate a portrayal of the Mysteries of the ancient world he had access to privileged information and only the privileged could see that power punctuation. However, many, many more will have experienced the Mysteries that would never recognise that iconography. It's that disparity between high and low art that Bybyots mentioned, which I thought we could bridge.

originally posted by: lostgirl
I'm sorry I haven't anything better to offer you than the "futile exercise" of imparting knowledge on an ignorant American housewife in order to grant her the means to develop understanding on the topic you raised...

Really? Now I see why you are a lostgirl and not a grown woman. I am a lone, working parent,I mop floors and clean toilets to keep a roof over my son's and my head, why should I spoon feed you?

originally posted by: lostgirl
Perhaps someone more learned will come along so that you can be engaged in a discussion more worthy of your time and effort.

"Learned" was not a prerequisite, effort was.

No skin off my nose.

a reply to: Anaana
What you are talking about with a statue is what I am trying to do with a comic book. And every time I read your ats name I cant help but think "anaana's in pajamas" cause that damned tv show for kids lol.

a reply to: Brotherman

By coincidence, I am, at this time, in pajamas but I think the show is Bananas in Pajamas.



I seem to be crashed and burnt. Are you having any better luck with it than me?

a reply to: Anaana

Look, 'truce', okay?

I honestly never intended to offend or antagonize you.

Some people genuinely enjoy sharing information without regard for getting "something in return", so I apologize for mistaking you for such a person.