One Soul, Many Bodies: The Case for Reincarnation

Originally posted by TheomExperience
What happens if everyone chooses the "grey", the flat-line so the speak?

Thats where I live. In recognition of the purposes of the light and dark. I respect both equally and love/hate them accordingly. DUTY is all the forgiveness I need.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

All texts that didn't comply with "current" doctrine was destroyed. The gnostic texts are one example that we wouldn't have at all if if was left to the church to responsibly keep them. Another example are all the writings and discussions of reincarnation that were destroyed by order of Emperor Justinian.

Come on now, this guy didn't even pop up on the scene until the 500's. Moreover, if he did destroy teachings about reincarnation they weren't Christian teachings. Can you show otherwise?

The only way to find out if reincarnation is true is to die, and that happens to us all in the end, so if reincarnation is true we will all find out. If we are unaware we are reincarnating then that is pretty much what science tells us when it says energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed only transformed.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


Origen, an early church father, taught reincarnation. She has a thread about it if you want to check it out, it should be under her profile.

I doubt you'll actually consider the possibility though, I think you already have your mind made up.

reply to post by ImaFungi


Yep, and consciousness is pure energy, so it ceasing to exist is against the laws of nature.

Reincarnation is the transformation of our spirit from a lesser vibration to a higher one. The more we reincarnate, the more we evolve from our experiences.

I think the end result would be close to Jesus/Buddha/Christ consciousness, that is never forgetting who you truly are and remembering you have eternal life through reincarnation.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Come on now, this guy didn't even pop up on the scene until the 500's.

What guy? Origen or Emperor Justinian? Origen was born in 185 AD. Anyway, it means that early Christians had 500 years of unimpeded religious debates and discussions on reincarnation until it forbidded in 550 AD

Moreover, if he did destroy teachings about reincarnation they weren't Christian teachings. Can you show otherwise?

As a matter of fact I can Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity,

Just for fun and not an advertisement....

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In Your Next Life, You'll Be A...

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Select the answer that sounds most like you.

1. If you had to choose one of these pets, you'd get a...
a. Dog or cat.
b. Ferret or hamster.
c. Pet rock.
d. Snake or tarantula.

2. You're in a forest. What are you most likely to do?
a. Sit down and relax.
b. Climb a tree.
c. Go for a hike or run.
d. Hide.

3. Your friends probably like you most because you are:
a. Fun.
b. Loyal.
c. Interesting.
d. Self-assured.

Originally posted by Pitons
You have no choice because there is no free will. Life as you understand it has as much meaning as the dream you dreamed 10 years ago. Basically it has no meaning at all. There is only one truth and your mind can't handle it. If you somehow "knew" the truth, your illusion would end up immediately. Reincarnation is just a myth, a belief.
Everything you just said is a lie. Everything i just wrote is a lie also. What happens after this illusion ends? The question is absurd. How can mind know which can't be known? Mind can't. Mind can know only what can be known. So when mind asks the question, it already knows the answer. If mind doesn't know the answer, there can't be any question.

Okay this argument is silly....what forced you to respond to this thread?

Originally posted by TheomExperience
What happens if everyone chooses the "grey", the flat-line so the speak?

The grey line? What line is that....are you inferring the neutral? What would be the point? I would say trying to stay neutral is a waste of energy...rather it is impossible....you can maintain a balance of energy....notice I do not say an exact balance.

That we have both energies attached to our soul gives us the ability to be imbalanced in either direction, but I submit being in a greater light is better than being in a greater dark.

Originally posted by soulpowertothendegree

Religion is steeped in esoteric righteous rhetoric for the simple fact that by instilling fear there is control over the masses.

I think you mean exoteric.

Originally posted by Binkus
reply to post by soulpowertothendegree

 

I really like the reincarnation debate

My own personal experiences are from my parents who said when i was very young about 3 years old, after driving past a hospital, i claimed to have died there after a motorcycle accident

I was very young and the injuries i sustained were round about the birthmarks i had, birthmarks disappeared as i got older

My name was John, and i was travelling with my Girlfriend

this always fascinated me, and it freaked my parents out. I was a pretty imaginative child so i kept one foot in both camps about reincarnation

I recently saw a program where it claims we are every person is every life to have ever to have existed as the meaning of time is really just a human concept, which means i am you and you are me under different circumstances. interesting stuff

reincarnation and jumping energy/soul is really nice concept

Thanks for sharing your personal experience, we do have a clean slate when we enter this realm, however, there is an ability on our part to access information when we allow the process to happen. Many times we have a sense of being in a familiar place or experiencing a certain sensation we think is strange....sometimes we are having a remembrance of a past life or behavior and because we have a subconscious ability to travel in our dream state..where time has no constraint....we may get glimpses of our future in this lifetime.

There are fears we have in this life that are attributed to past lives. We have habits that manifest themselves in this lifetime from past lives...I call them muscle memory.

I am open minded on the subject. A good book about some aspects of it is ''Many Mansions'' by Gina Cemanara-not sure of the spelling of her last name. Some people beleive that dreams can indicate events of past lives. A guy I know says that he had a very vivid dream many times. In the dream he is some kind of seaborn soldier or pirate and his group attacks a ship. There is combat and all of a sudden he looks down to see a spear sticking out of his belly. Then the dream ends.

Originally posted by Binkus
reply to post by soulpowertothendegree

 

I really like the reincarnation debate

My own personal experiences are from my parents who said when i was very young about 3 years old, after driving past a hospital, i claimed to have died there after a motorcycle accident

I was very young and the injuries i sustained were round about the birthmarks i had, birthmarks disappeared as i got older

My name was John, and i was travelling with my Girlfriend

this always fascinated me, and it freaked my parents out. I was a pretty imaginative child so i kept one foot in both camps about reincarnation

I recently saw a program where it claims we are every person is every life to have ever to have existed as the meaning of time is really just a human concept, which means i am you and you are me under different circumstances. interesting stuff

reincarnation and jumping energy/soul is really nice concept

Wierd, My Second youngest child when 2 "He could speak very clearly at that that age" who was born some 20 years after his grandfather died, told us that he used to float above us before he chose us and he was friends with another named Barry ( His Grandfathers Name), When we moved into Barries old place of residence he would always say Barry is here with us, one day the wife got a photo out of her dad Barry and showed him, he said thats Barry he watches over you all the time. Sadly Barry died from Cancer of the Kidneys, even sader is our son has been diagnosed with PKD, Polysistic Kidney Disease, which is usually passed on because of genetics, nnone of it on either side of our families

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Come on now, this guy didn't even pop up on the scene until the 500's.

What guy? Origen or Emperor Justinian? Origen was born in 185 AD. Anyway, it means that early Christians had 500 years of unimpeded religious debates and discussions on reincarnation until it forbidded in 550 AD

Moreover, if he did destroy teachings about reincarnation they weren't Christian teachings. Can you show otherwise?

As a matter of fact I can Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity,

edit on 11-7-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)

If you are suggesting that Origen taught reincarnation then you are greatly mistaking. There is no proof that he ever taught such a thing.

Let's consider his own words:

Origen does discuss the concept of transmigration (metensomatosis) from Greek philosophy, but it is repeatedly stated that this concept is not a part of the Christian teaching or scripture in his Comment on the Gospel of Matthew (which survives only in a 6th-century Latin translatio): "In this place when Jesus said Elijah was come and referred to John the Baptist it does not appear to me that by Elijah the soul is spoken of, lest I fall into the doctrine of transmigration, which is foreign to the Church of God, and not handed down by the apostles, nor anywhere set forth in the scriptures" (13:1:46–53, see Commentary on Matthew, Book XIII) Source

Show me a quote from one of his writings were he supports the idea of reincarnation.

Originally posted by soulpowertothendegree

Originally posted by Pitons
You have no choice because there is no free will. Life as you understand it has as much meaning as the dream you dreamed 10 years ago. Basically it has no meaning at all. There is only one truth and your mind can't handle it. If you somehow "knew" the truth, your illusion would end up immediately. Reincarnation is just a myth, a belief.
Everything you just said is a lie. Everything i just wrote is a lie also. What happens after this illusion ends? The question is absurd. How can mind know which can't be known? Mind can't. Mind can know only what can be known. So when mind asks the question, it already knows the answer. If mind doesn't know the answer, there can't be any question.

Okay this argument is silly....what forced you to respond to this thread?

All arguments are silly and absurd. Mine or yours or his/hers. It doesn't matter. Why i responded to this thread about reincarnation? I just wanted to say that everything you believe or I believe is just... a belief which has absolutely no connection to the real truth. Reincarnation, hells and heavens and whatnot are just speculations of a limited mind. We all think that what we believe is true. And everybody believe in different things. That's the problem. That's why people destroy each other. In the name of religion, in the name of the country, in the name of the race or whatever. But as we don't have free will as we believe we have - it doesn't matter if people harm others. It has to be so if it happens in this dream. You can't do anything about it. You are just a pawn who is doing what is ordered to him without realizing why it is going on. You were taken for the ride so to speak. You are not the driver. You can enjoy the ride. You can hate the ride. It doesn't matter at all.
Maybe I shouldn't have intervened. I hoped you will say something more interesting than "your argument is silly" and "get out".

reply to post by Pitons


It sounds as if you are a believer in fate, one that does not feel that we have any real choice in the matter. I'm curious how this came about and if I am incorrect please let me know. I've always felt that those who follow the path of fate are never accountable for thier actions because they were "supposed" to do it anyways.

Originally posted by QuietSpeech
reply to post by Pitons

 

It sounds as if you are a believer in fate, one that does not feel that we have any real choice in the matter. I'm curious how this came about and if I am incorrect please let me know. I've always felt that those who follow the path of fate are never accountable for thier actions because they were "supposed" to do it anyways.

I always thought that I have free will. Till recently when my whole world of beliefs was smashed. For example, I realized that it is not me as I understood myself who puts thoughts, ideas in my head. I am not an author of my thoughts. As silly as it sounds. They just pop out somehow. Why I do what I do? I have no idea. Can I be held accountable for what I do? For example if I do something morally wrong. Well, do you hold accountable the monsters who gave you a nightmare? Of course society will lock me up. So justice will be done? Justice to whom? Me? Who is me? This "physical life" is just a dream that is dreamt. It is not necessary to take this illusion so seriously. I just surrended myself to the unknown, to the "nothingness". And the great burden was lifted from my shoulders. I know that IT just is. Nothing else matters anymore. How you call all this also doesn't matter. I pretty much have no more questions also. Just killing time until time kills "me".

reply to post by windword


Thanks for that video... I have always suspected that some very important concepts were left out of the bible, and that video helped me to get an idea of what exactly was going on back then.

I have always felt "intuitively" that reincarnation is an option for spirit...
I feel that a memory damped life in the flesh has multiple ways of re-tuning ones spirit, as I have always felt that the flesh is the hardest "hard copy" of who and what we are...

Sort of like re-grooving a record disc... Still the same label, just sounds a little better, and added 12 seconds of rewritten material...

reply to post by Pitons


Iv'e seen enough of the paranormal to know there is something beyond the body.

If you fervently seek it, I believe it (the world of the spirit),will make itself known to you; although, some have wished they hadn't... Remember...it's not all one color...

Once you realize the extent of the supernatural world, and how it ties, through some kinds of electronic machinery* into our physical world, you can then extrapolate the assured future outcome of technology, and the very real possibility of the actual existence of Supernal and timeless beings...

In my Intuitive opinion, reincarnation is but one avenue of birth/growth/re-growth for the spirit... Once you start dipping into the timeless realm (after life), it's a little harder to change things about your "self"...

*( I've seen some of this machinery, believe it or not, and one of the devices allows time travel, which makes for the perfect guardian of secrecy...think about it...it's the perfect Moderator for the forum of reality...)

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


In St. Jerome's letter #124, Jerome cites Origen and accuses Origen of teaching reincarnation. I guess the Catholic church forgot to burn or rewrite this one.

15. The following passage is a convincing proof that he (Origen) holds the transmigration of souls and annihilation of bodies." If it can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in itself independently of the body and that it is worse off in the body than out of it; then beyond a doubt bodies are only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted themselves up to better things, their bodies are once more annihilated. They are thus ever vanishing and ever reappearing." (Origen: First Principles)
www.newadvent.org...

And then there's this:

Or is it not more in conformity with reason, that every soul, for certain mysterious reasons (I speak now according to the opinion of Pythagoras, and Plato, and Empedocles, whom Celsus frequently names), is introduced into a body, and introduced according to its deserts and former actions? www.earlychristianwritings.com...