Why America? Why?

So I have yet to post a thread in this section and thought this topic is one of importance considering what the American Govt. has turned into. This government used to be one that other countries tried to be like but now look at us. Other countries look down on us and probably wonder the same thing I wonder, what the hell happened to make the people who are in power turn so corrupt and self centered.

They no longer look out for the people instead they are looking out for themselves. If something tries to pass through congress that doesn't benefit them personally then it more than likely gets denied or shot down.

How can anything move forward for the better in a society such as this. I am sure the founding fathers wouldn't have wanted this country to turn out the way it has. Although they probably wouldn't have agreed with equality for everyone or gay rights either but the point is that this country is going in a direction that will lead to the downfall just like Rome.

We are going to fall just as the Romans did and its going to be soon. Either that or we will learn and not be so power hungry and actually do whats best for the people instead of be selfish.

How did the people that are in power even get there in the first place, it seems like the people of America are just as upset with them as I am. The people of America probably dont feel like they are getting a say so in what goes on anymore. That feeling is becoming overwhelming and unbearable. As it should be. We should not allow the government that determines how we live our life to be one that we dont like.

Really think about this how are we allowed to invade other countries because we think whats happening in them is wrong? It makes no sense at all. When I say we I am sadly referring to americans and our govt. I say sadly because I am no longer proud to be an american and cant remember ever being able to be proud in the first place.

I am 19 years old and ever since I have been alive it seems like this country has been in the dumps. Its about time we perk up and do something right for a change. Snowden knows what I mean I am sure. The government we have now is not the government we are promised.

Things need to change. Theres a video that says it all in my opinion but before I post the video I would like to end on a quote.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK

reply to post by UnknownKnower

You, for a very young person, made a very inspired, yet somber thread. You picked the perfect way to illustrate your point and how many of us feel, with your words and the use of that video. It's a sad reality, but we're not what we want to believe we are.

I, being 53, seem to remember a bit of the Ol' US of A. How we went to the moon - or at least it looked like we did ; how we did build great things and always supported the underdog. Somewhere along the way, we changed and it appears not for the better. Maybe it was all the pulling from each side that stretched the rope so far, it can't snap back to what is normal and right. I only hope for your sake and that of my niece and nephews, things do go back to what I knew to be great about America. Right now, that hope seems rather small.

reply to post by Bilk22


Thank you very much. I tried to make this as understandable and as easy to relate to as possible. I have thought about this plenty before hand, I am just tired of the people of this country being forgotten when we are what this country was built upon. We literally built this country and we are being alienated from things such as input on what laws are in place. Why do we allow certain people to have all the power. Like I have said it makes no sense at all. We need to be heard for once instead of being drowned out by the people in power positions. We are letting them decide everything without us saying anything about it. We idly sit by and let it happen. But how do we change things for the better without being harmed by the govt we wish to change? This is a question that I am sure has bugged many of those who wish for change. How do we do it?

Originally posted by UnknownKnower
Like I have said it makes no sense at all. We need to be heard for once instead of being drowned out by the people in power positions. ... This is a question that I am sure has bugged many of those who wish for change. How do we do it?

I am a retiree and an expat. I remember and lived some of the glory days and then I saw a slow decline, then finally a very rapid one that has been going strong for over a decade. I believe a lot of good came out of the 60's in terms of social revolution, civil rights for all, and reaching for the stars. I think that was just too much for the powers to handle since most of that was the American people leading the way. Much has been done since then to splinter us, divide us, and ultimately conquer what made us special and good and unique.

I would like to be wrong about this but I don't believe the change coming is going to be good. I suspect we are now on a path to self-destruction. What was the greatest experiment in governance of a nation and a rise to glory turns out that we can destroy ourselves from within because our government became afraid of it people and set itself on a path of self-destruction.

I wish I were wrong here but I suspect the American experiment is doomed, it is over and our government must be spanked as the Germans were in WWII. The monster must be slain. I hope it is the American people that can do so but I think too many remain hoodwinked and are still too much "my country right or wrong" to do anything about it. I do hold out hope though.

If you disagree then don't waste your anger on me because you will need every ounce of that strength and fury to defeat the enemy of our people. It is not a foreign enemy as our true enemy would wish us to believe but it is an enemy within, at our core, pulling our strings. We are bogged down by our laws that make each of us a potential criminal. Accept our diversity, our differences, our independence, and celebrate our right to be individuals. That was our strength, not our one-size-fits-all conformity. Lose that and we might as well give up now without a further struggle. We need the right and ability to make decisions for ourselves, make mistakes, and then correct them searching for the best methods. We must not have our hands and minds tied.

When we all become the same, share the same values, and demand others do the same, that will be our prison uniform.

There's a propaganda campaign going on in this country, it's goal is to tell people that they don't matter in this government anymore. It's a lie, but the more and more that people believe it, the more true it becomes.

Apathy is what got this country to the state in which it currently resides. For too long we focused solely on the president while all the while giving congress a green light to do whatever it is they want to do.

The president is just an executive, a figurehead. It's congress that holds the purse strings, it's congress that writes the laws (not the president)

You want to ask why? Your the reason why, you and every other red blooded, tv addicted, fat, bloated, self absorbed, facebook checking American citizen who instead of holding their representatives accountable at the voting booth, have time and time and time again re elected these same d bags and wonder insanely why the country has gone so wrong.

Instead of replacing these people every single time we have an election with someone better (thereby giving these people term limits ourselves) we keep electing these people (all of them). And you wonder why?

They brainwash you into believing that there are only democrats and republicans to vote for, but if you actually go to the ballot box, and actually vote in each and every election, more often than not you find that there's an independant or two on the ticket.

They lie to you and say that voting a third party candidate is a vote thrown away, but it's not. They stay in power because we let them stay in power, and we believe their constant lies.

Vote independently, vote someone else that isn't a part of the system. Or, if you REALLY don't like what's going on, run yourself. Start locally, get elected to some local office, most of the time the people in your town that are elected to local office are the only people on the ballot. Run against them. Find out what it's really like. Start a viral campaign on the web. Get elected to the house of representatives for your district.

If We the People want this country to change, we have to do it ourselves, it's a government of the people, by the people, and for the people and those who say otherwise are part of the problem and not part of the solution. Those who say that it's rigged, are the problem, those who say it's a corrupt system, are the problem. Those who try and deny you your basic of rights, the right to determine your government are the problem.

Those that think that the only way we are going to get our freedom back is through the means of a violent and bloody revolution are the problem, they don't want freedom, don't let them lie to you. They want to take away your ability to choose your own representatives in Congress.

We the People have always had the power to change this country for the better. We the People have the obligation to do so.

There does need to be another revolution in this country. But a non violent one. Each and every person in Congress on both sides of the political aisle need to be fired from their job. Non party independents need to take their place. People with no affiliation to a political party. The people we elect need to owe their allegiance to the constituents not a political party.

Why has this country gone the way it has? Because of apathy of the people. We got lazy, voting straight party tickets instead of voting for people that want to follow the will of the people and the Constitution of the United States.

I wish I could give more stars OP.

I'm not an American, but millions of people around the world can recognize that there is something very wrong, that the US has gone down a very worrying path, and that things have changed, not for the better.

There are a lot of things wrong in many countries around the world, but the video you posted shows the difference in my opinion. America has become a bully, a thug, some kind of mafia boss dictating to the world with a form of grand delusion that it is the best nation to do so... it's not, it just has more machinery to do it, more leverage and more power - and a public who remain duped into chanting "USA!" while slapping each other on the back and ignoring the actual facts.

I have always despised nationalism, whatever nation. I find self-congratulation and adoration of the state extremely distasteful and ignorant. And I have to say that America is perhaps the worst for it. As seen, America really doesn't lead the way in anything good or positive, but the people are so misinformed they simply believe the mantra and ignore the truth.

It's almost blasphemy for an American to even suggest that the USA is not some "beacon of freedom". That in itself is concerning, because despite the clear and obvious proof that it isn't, people still refuse to accept it. It's like a mass delusion.

I'm afraid this is just another cyclical event though. All empires fall, and the American empire is crumbling. I have my own theories about why these things happen, but there's no doubting that it is happening. China and Russia are steaming ahead as competing global powers while America continues to decline, and things are going to become increasingly ugly as the "American Dream" becomes a nightmare.

If our country would vote all the incumbents out of office, maybe that would send a clear message that the people have had enough. Considering we have a good number of representatives that have been in office for over 20 years and a lot of them are over the retirement age, people still continue to re-elect these people into office!

Originally posted by WeRpeons
If our country would vote all the incumbents out of office, maybe that would send a clear message that the people have had enough. Considering we have a good number of representatives that have been in office for over 20 years and a lot of them are over the retirement age, people still continue to re-elect these people into office!

it's not the American government that should be thrown out of office, it's wealthy people like the Koch bros that use their massive fortunes to influence the naïve and ignorant. as well as the corrupt. we must have a revolution not of bloodshed, but of strict laws that severly limit political funding, backed up with harsh mandatory prison sentences for those that do, no matter their wealth or class.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
this movie about the Koch bros. corruption of our political system, should be mandatory viewing for our leaders in washington

reply to post by jimmyx


The politicians and corporations are so intertwined they are almost the same thing.

Back when the country was founded the corporation was not a factor. All you needed was separation of church and state. Sadly that's not the case anymore.

I see no way out either. I am hopeful and doubtful at the same time of America getting its act together.

Alot of people see parallels between ancient Rome and modern America. I see more in common with 1939 Germany than I do with Rome.

reply to post by UnknownKnower



I arrived to the same conclusion 10 years ago. Now, when I tune in to some old fave newstations I realize it´s all over. Having watched the USD taking a dive as a trusted world currency and the NYSE behaving like a monkey strong out on crack I see it is only a matter of time before the final financial and sociopolitical collapse in US kicks in with a mighty thunder that will make everything else pale in comparison. I estimate 10-12 months, tops.
After that, you are truly f..ucked if you are still in the country or have any american real estate or other assets.

When I realized this I took a long term job in a rich Scandinavian country that is pure paradise in comparison.

No shootings, almost negligible crime. My kids are safe to and from their school. The water is clean, the air is fresh and no pollution in sight. Lots of good jobs available for those with computer, mechanical or academical skills (although the ugly face of the south europe is beginning to show its face in terms of worsened economic stats). Most here speak ivery good english. The currency is strong, which is good when we buy things online, or visit other parts of Europe or Scandinavia. The summers are wonderful (feels like being in something lush and green from the Lord of the Ring Saga) lol) and life is just sooo... relaxed (see attached pics)

You get sick here, it costs almost nothing to visit the doctor or find yourself forced to undergo surgery.

The internet speeds are breathtaking, wifi everywhere you go. The 4G net is also cool. People are polite beyond belief. Old customs meet latest tech in some kind of dreamlike wonderland.

My relationship has undergone a renaissance, our sex life better than ever (because she is happy) and all our friends are thin, highly intelligent, calm minded, joyful and not fat, depressed, or zonkedand on a dozen types of drugs....

All food is GMO free btw, animals are respected and not shot on the street by police thugs like in my old home. The ruling partyblock last 8 years is Republican Ultralite which is too good to be true.


So when good ol´US goes to the shredder like ancient Rome This paradise will probably be the last bastion against a crumbling world out there. Being here now, I am not looking back. My kids future is secured and that is all that counts.

'So, what country is it due', might you ask? Well lets say its east of Norway

This was basically a non holiday. I've always loved the Fourth and let my patriotism fly but this year I couldn't even go through the motions. I was actually disgusted looking at the flags I've had up since Memorial day. I put them up in honor and memory of our soldiers but still found myself asking for forgiveness from them for how the country has just slipped away. I told them that the country they fought for is gone and it will take nothing short of God to put us back on track. Asking our fallen vets to use their pull with God to smite us because we deserve it, particularly our leaders. Not out of hate but out of love.
I loved America, warts and all. Now, its just a shell. Corruption. Illegal immigration. Totalitarianism taking over the government. Societal decay. Social unrest urged by our leaders and media. Does that mean they've won? If patriots join the leftists and radicals in hating what America stands for, what hope is there? Or maybe now the radicals love America now more than ever as it becomes hideously warped and changed. Or will we reach a point where we look at the insanity and corruption we've allowed to go unchecked and will we say" Enough." The strong will fight to bring America back, the weak will fight to keep it in decline. But the strong usually best the weak in a fight....

reply to post by Cancerwarrior

I think you hit the nail in the head with separation of chuch and state but I add corporations to that separation. As I remember the whole reason for corporations was for a specific social good and they had a charter with time limits, no longer.
Forget voting as in my opinion if anyone in office does not do their job then they should be fired. Forget political parties, even third parties as ideologies should not have a place in governance in the first place. Political work has to do with solving social issues not fomenting ideologies. Besides ideologies are dangerously close to old church-state idea which we got rid of but is at it again disguised as political ideologies.
In conclusion the problem is that the government has too much money, this is why it goes haywire. The commonly known fact that when making budgets for the next year you should over spend or else you will not get more money next year is very true. This does not condone efficiency, another known fact in business is that you should not spend more than 5% of your budget in Administration costs, yeah lets see some austerity start from right there!

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by jimmyx

 

The politicians and corporations are so intertwined they are almost the same thing.

Back when the country was founded the corporation was not a factor. All you needed was separation of church and state. Sadly that's not the case anymore.

I see no way out either. I am hopeful and doubtful at the same time of America getting its act together.

Alot of people see parallels between ancient Rome and modern America. I see more in common with 1939 Germany than I do with Rome.

unfortunately, I have to agree with you. the only difference I see at this point is that our presidents, and to a lesser degree our other federally elected officials, seem to be taking orders from someone else, and have been doing it for decades regardless of political affiliation.....once they get into office, it seems that they are told how it is, and how it's going to be, in my opinion, of course.

reply to post by johncarter


ok.... john carter, you don't have to rub the salt into the wounds so much....I live in California....and my life isn't that bad. I think a lot of us Americans have a sense that things here are going to get worse before they get better....that doesn't mean we are all a bunch of lard-butts sitting around watching TV all day...(I don't know why that seems to be the impression people from other countries have)...but I digress, because of family, my wife and I do not have the opportunity to move to another country, even though we have the means to do it. I would love to move to northern Europe, so we could live out our retirement in a country that simply treats it's people well.

I agree with the original poster! He is 19 years old and sees the same problems I see. I am 70 years old and during my lifetime we have been at war for half my life. WWII was necessary, Korea was not, Vietnam was not, (I was in the Army for a few years during that war), Grenada was not, Panama was not, Iraq was not, Afghanistan was not.

Without a "draft" no one should serve in what we call the U.S.Army, because it has become a group of mercenaries protecting the interests of bankers and politicians. If we would have improved our country with the money expended on all those wars, all of the nations of the world (except us) would not be considered third world. Our cities are broke and in shambles, we have the highest prison population in the world (it is now a business),

Over the decades, our government (Federal, State and Local) have sought to deprive citizens of more and more rights each year, and have levied more and more taxes and fees to support their existence and lifestyle which now exceeds those of the sheeple who pay the bills, suffer the losses and are (as Goldman Sachs et.al call us) muppets to be exploited by the top 1%.

Worthless educations are now the order of the day whereas in the past a college education had value and would assist in providing a better life, and some upward mobility to those who were status seekers. For some reason we as Americans with the enactment of Equal Opportunity in the Johnson years believed that everyone should go to college. When I was 45 I picked up a law degree and never became a licensed lawyer, that was 1990, there were about 350 people in my graduating class, when I looked at how many graduates there were in 1960 it was 17. There was a time when standards, merit, grades, and brains and hard work was the ticket needed to enter into the professions or even college.

That changed in the 70's when skin color and gender was the determining factor for not only education but also hiring in the public and private sector the old standards were thrown out of with the trash. As a result, we have have a dumbed down population, try talking to anyone in Washington D.C. and my point is made, or in any other government sector.

There has been cries from the defendants of slaves who believed we ( sons of immigrants) owed them or owes them a drone lifestyle, where they do not have to meet the standards that once pervaded this country, and drove citizens to better themselves by qualifying for higher education or taking risks to enhance their standards of living.

Today we have created a citizenry who are averse to accepting risk, making it on their own, but believe they are better off living in public housing, being on title 19, or standing in a food stamp line, in short . . . where Americans once believed they were self sufficient and responsible for their own destiny, we find a nation of drones who believe they deserve what others have spent and sacrificed their lives achieving. You see the work ethic in America our ancestors brought with them from Europe and elsewhere has died . . . except for . . . the new immigrants who just want opportunity.

Isn't it amazing that todays immigrants, see opportunity here and somehow get their great educations through hard work and have not learned about being the "American Drone" a group that is slowly dragging us into 3rd world status. I have a vietnamese family living across the street from me, the father was a farmer in vietnam, neither speak English, but they have three children all of whom are either in college or in their last week of high school, the children speak English and take care of their parents, something that is not longer done in America where children view their parents as a burden instead of viewing them as part of the family. John

Congrats, OP on a terrific post.

As a younger person, who hasn't seen any of the 'great' USA of the past, you've managed to thoughtfully, fairly, and concisely ask the questions that need to be asked by all Americans, and that video was absolutely perfect to demonstrate the deep-seated anger and helplessness felt by a great many Americans at what what is going on in Our nation.

Thank you for this post, you've restored at least a little of my faith in the younger generation.

Now, we just need people that are willing to stop playing by the rules set forth by the puppeteers in Washington and local governments, and start making this country make a little sense again.

reply to post by UnknownKnower


Obama has spent the last 5 years trying to convince the American people how awful they are, by telling foreign countries at every opportunity, by pointing out every perceived fault, by name calling (ie people who cling to their bibles etc.). He seems to have succeeded.

He has convinced one WWII era person (my Mother) that America is inherently bad and can no longer be trusted. His concerted effort to make American's see their faults and own up to them has worked. So the majority of Americans, (see recent polls) do not trust congress by a wide margin and about half don't trust Obama.

Obama succeeded unintentionally - by forcing American's to self "examine" their faults as he sees them and to loathe America as a country/government (ie by making the flag a despised symbol etc) - the government removed any semblance of trust.

How can one trust what is perceived as bad/evil (America) when even the leader is constantly telling everyone that America is bad/evil.

Big example: Many 4th of July celebrations were cancelled at military bases. This says to the American people:

"The one day a year we celebrate America has been cancelled, we can't do that."

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
reply to post by jimmyx

 

The politicians and corporations are so intertwined they are almost the same thing.

Back when the country was founded the corporation was not a factor. All you needed was separation of church and state. Sadly that's not the case anymore.

I see no way out either. I am hopeful and doubtful at the same time of America getting its act together.

Alot of people see parallels between ancient Rome and modern America. I see more in common with 1939 Germany than I do with Rome.

unfortunately, I have to agree with you. the only difference I see at this point is that our presidents, and to a lesser degree our other federally elected officials, seem to be taking orders from someone else, and have been doing it for decades regardless of political affiliation.....once they get into office, it seems that they are told how it is, and how it's going to be, in my opinion, of course.

I honestly believe that even if you somehow found the most honest person who ever lived and put him in public office, within a year or two he would be corrupted. It's the nature of the current system we have. As long as money and personal power/profit are a factor it will not change. Its funny because even though the current system is obviously broken the people in power have to keep advancing it so they can stay in power. They have to keep it perpetuating itself. They must keep the locomotive fueled, who cares if its heading towards a cliff!

I'm not sure if they are really "taking orders" from anyone else like in a chain of command or anything. But these politicians have to cater to the people that will finance their elections. Sadly thats not Joe Schmoe anymore, its Colgate, General Electric, McDonnell Douglas, Kock brothers etc, etc.

I have thought about it alot and I really can't say what I think the current system we have should be replaced with. I think Smaller more local communities should be what people center their political dealings around. If the Civil War was happening today I think I would have to support the Confederacy simply because I think States and localized governments should have more say-so in the affairs of its citizenry.

My next question is, why the hell do we keep allowing this to happen to us? Why are we letting those people in power positions run our lives when they aren't the ones living it?

They have no right at all to tell the rest of America's population how to act, what to do, what to eat, or most importantly how to think. If we allow this kind of government to keep the power it has right now, we will regret it in the future.

I should say if we allow this kind of government to keep gaining "more power" than it has right now.

WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE IN CHARGE!!

There has to be some option besides moving away. We need to make a change and the people in the government cant be allowed to simply say we cant do it.


“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, Government are instituted among men, deriving their powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of those ends, it is the right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government….”
--Declaration of Independence.

The questions is how do we do it? Because I can see an overwhelming amount of the populations getting fed up with whats been going on.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by WeRpeons
If our country would vote all the incumbents out of office, maybe that would send a clear message that the people have had enough. Considering we have a good number of representatives that have been in office for over 20 years and a lot of them are over the retirement age, people still continue to re-elect these people into office!

it's not the American government that should be thrown out of office, it's wealthy people like the Koch bros that use their massive fortunes to influence the naïve and ignorant. as well as the corrupt. we must have a revolution not of bloodshed, but of strict laws that severly limit political funding, backed up with harsh mandatory prison sentences for those that do, no matter their wealth or class.
www.huffingtonpost.com...
this movie about the Koch bros. corruption of our political system, should be mandatory viewing for our leaders in washington

edit on 6-7-2013 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)

You forgot to mention George Soros - or was that intentional?