Forgiveness / Allowing vs. Hatred / Resistance (The Bible and The philosophy of Karma is revenge)

Haj do! Just thought I'd drop in and let you know that, while your Bible verses are accurate, your definition of Karmais not. Karma is not necessarily *about* forgiveness, but it does promote forgiveness. This is how I have learned that Karma works. Let us use your example of getting punched in the face. The person acting to punch you in the face has now committed an act which negatively affected his/her Karma 'pool'. Depending on how this person felt about his/her action towards you, this Karma could take a few seconds to come back to him (you punch him/her), it could take months, or years......or life times!

Now, if you were to punch him/her back, you are also negatively affecting your own Karma 'pool', so we can see that it is not in your best Karmic interest to react in this way.

Good topic other than that...
Peace
O.G.R.E.

Karma doesnt exist, its an artificial pool of belief that only has sway if you feel heavy, or believe in it. Thoughtscape, thought creates, we're fractals/cells of God, the Infinite Soul has infinite cells, we're all infinite parts of infinity.

And we create with thought and feeling.

Believe instead in forgiveness, love, kindness and healing, that only what is allowed to learn, to turn away from an error ever occurs, and even that is able to be dissolved if someone wishes to learn and grow in a kind realm instead of a hellzone.

Its a error of thought that has people entrapped here. Kindness is all there is above and all that is real.

I agree with what you're saying Unity_99, but I have found that when people say "[something] isn't real" it is never followed up with any good reason for that something not being real. You could have said, you don't believe in Karma, but for millions of people, Karma is a real phenomenon ... why put them down like that, especially when you're trying to promote a message of kindness/love?

Just my 2 coppers,
O.G.R.E.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Beautiful metaphor with the movie theater. Yes, forgiveness is just another word for allowing. It is accepting this moment as it is instead of being angry by resisting what is already happening, and once the anger goes away action may still happen but it will be from a place of stillness/clarity.

reply to post by 3OGRE3

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
Haj do! Just thought I'd drop in and let you know that, while your Bible verses are accurate, your definition of Karmais not. Karma is not necessarily *about* forgiveness

I didn't say that it was. I said you can choose to forgive (let go) instead of holding on to the harm that was done to you and wishing harm back on the other person.

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
Depending on how this person felt about his/her action towards you, this Karma could take a few seconds to come back to him (you punch him/her), it could take months, or years......or life times!

It must be painful to believe that. Many life times waiting for a negative karma to come back at you for an action you are not even aware that you've done.

I believe that the universe is PRESENT (in the now moment) not holding on to the past.

reply to post by 3OGRE3

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
I agree with what you're saying Unity_99, but I have found that when people say "[something] isn't real" it is never followed up with any good reason for that something not being real. .

I didn't say Karma isn't real at all. I said Karma isn't real to those who truly believe in Forgiveness because Karma is about revenge (getting back at the harm someone else did), forgiveness is about letting go of it.

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
You could have said, you don't believe in Karma, but for millions of people

Yes, I already acknowledge this. This is why I said Karma isn't real *FOR* those who believe in forgiveness. I am aware that there are others who perceive Karma as being real.

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
Karma is a real phenomenon ... why put them down like that, especially when you're trying to promote a message of kindness/love?

I didn't put anyone "down". I always say that people are free to believe whatever they wish. If they want to believe in Karma and interpret events in life to be "evidence" for karma. Then they are free to do so.

If you want to believe in a vengeful universe/god, then you are free to do so. I believe that the universe/god is present and is called Love or Mercy because it lets go of the past and stays present.

Peace.

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
Depending on how this person felt about his/her action towards you, this Karma could take a few seconds to come back to him (you punch him/her), it could take months, or years......or life times!

It must be painful to believe that. Many life times waiting for a negative karma to come back at you for an action you are not even aware that you've done.

I believe that the universe is PRESENT (in the now moment) not holding on to the past.

I apologize for the confusion because I did not clearly explain the Karmic force. I do not understand it fully myself so I do not speak with any authority and I am in deed sorry that I felt I needed to correct you. I think Karma is affected BY the very act of awareness itself... say for instance, you commit an action which in your mind is not perceived as bad in any way, but in my mind it is an atrocious act. In this way, your action only negatively affects me, because my state of being is such that I even considered your act, and thought of it negatively - now my karmic pool has gone a little bit 'darker' if you will. I have only done light studies on this subject, so I feel I must stress - I speak under no authority.

In essence Forgiveness/Allowances is basically meaning/related to recognizing faults or ignorance doings of the past being Overcame & Persevered beyond w/o lowering ones consciousness or mind state to response levels of revenge. Because these lower mind state revenge responses in turn cause the to as well become as unbalanced as the who caused the past or present faults & ignorance, which triggered the revenge response in the beginning. And as response one is responded back by response two which started from original fault / ignorance doing from response two (group or being) continue a vicious cycle is designed which unfortunately doesn't end until both or more parties have been totally exhausted of their energies or depleted or ended by some unknown factor that settles all. And so 1 can SEE why LORD JESUS CHRIST shared these ways of thinking to perhaps prevent SOULS/INTENRAL ENERGIES/SPIRITS from meeting the same fates even if they originally started out as the victim or first responses to of the fault/ignorance's doings, but do to vengeful hearts/minds Souls they end up in similar domains temp. but long term perhaps areas of existence with the very energies that caused them grief. And so the LORD perhaps seeks to prevent this cycle of ignorance form forming...

As always arpgme 1 enjoyed the read

NAMASTE*******

Pure nonsense. Karma means 'action' period. Has NOTHING to do with the Universe rewarding or avenging one's doings and is unrelated to fate or reincarnation. Too many people throw that word around as if it was the Universe's way of getting back at you for doing good or evil. Which is fairy tale, spiritual nonsense.

reply to post by arpgme


First of all if you read all the bible, mostly Iv got through half the new testament but think differently, you must try and understand that the bible was wrote in parables so that only those that have (open eyes) good understanding will see the truth.

The quotes you talk about and the confusion I had was the same but I read on and I understood, I've read part of the quran, the piby bible(rasta bible) and the kabbalah. But from what I understand is that, the etheric/Soul is made up of the physical body and the mental body. When you operate, you are using the mental body with your physical body, doing daily tasks, but when you create an image in your mind, you are looking through the etheric eyes, any sense you feel, any voice in your head or smell, is the etheric body.

As I said the Etheric is physical and mental, so you leave your body, with will/spirit, what ever you want to call it, ITS IS JUST A CONCEPT/LABEL. Separating the ethereal from the flesh, so whatever you do imaginatively, you intently. Get it?

Its mind over matter in ancient scripture.

It basically teaches you that this ethereal body is Christ, the son of god. = When used the way god intended/properly.

All religions are the same, Allah, is Christian god/Yahweh/ and Mohammed -Not correct spelling/ is the Jesus Christ. I use to dismiss the bible for its lack of sense and simplicity. But when you read it with the mind, for it is the mind that sees, the eyes read data, the minds processes. I could go for years.

It all says. Do throw your pearls before swine, less they trample them and rend you. This means don't give knowledge to those who aren't worthy of it, encase they misunderstand/interpret and use it against, or with evil.

Enjoy.

Originally posted by arpgme
PLEASE READ BEFORE RESPONDING, THANKS:

Many people believe in "Karma", that what you do comes back to you. If someone punches you, you'll punch back, et cetera. The only problem with this is that it leaves no room for forgiveness. If someone punches you and you punch back, yes, that is fair according to karma, but now that person will get revenge and punch again or even worse. You could have just chosen to live in "Grace/Forgiveness" rather than "Revenge/Karma" and let the whole situation to dissolve.

I think we see Karma in different ways, I see Karma not as if you hit me then I hit you, ill use a perfect example my girlfriend during my military service was cheatin on me for a year and a bit with get ex boyfriend, I still took her back and told her I loved her and if she stopped then it didn't matter. I wanted to believe her but knew something was up her behaviourisims changed (probably because I got to see her in full light without long breaks inbetween)

We carried on for four months after that when she finally crushed me and went to go with him because they were "soul mates" and they should of been together from the get go. I'm devastated but better to be rid of her than for that to creep up later on in life (Say we had kids which we talked about?! Scary thoughts lol) about 8 months down the line I received a phone call with her askin to meet me she didn't know where to turn, her life was in ruins he left her to be with someone they both worked with. I simply smiled and said "Karmas a bitch" and hung up the phone.

Karma is not about YOU physically doing something but rather letting the universe deal with them, it takes some time and things don't always look like Karmas getting the job done but when you get there you'll have a little smile because retribution has been done and you've done nothing to aid in it

You explain how its a car and how it can take you places, but how do you drive it? how do the gears turn, the engine of the car is superior to the result, without it, there would be no result.

I believe that with karma, many factors are in place, with anything, but with karma, we can't feel them tangibly. So its all metaphysics, what goes up must go down, you give energy to a thought, it will intensify the ease and preciseness of the action. But if you think of some thing different to what your doing, you may do/say what you was thinking about, messing up what you was physically trying to achieve .

If you give bad energy to anything, it will soak up your bad energy, if is good energy your thoughts have then you will receive good energy, but if your thought match's your physically then it becomes more powerful, that is the energy that you decide to give.

A good parable of this in the bible is of the two sons.

There's a father and his two sons, he says to one of his sons will you take out the trash, his son replies saying no! I won't, but then feels bad and does it anyway.

The second time, the father asks the second son to do some thing outside, the son says I will, then thinks # it and doesn't.

Speaking metaphorical, because that's what parables are.... The father asked, and was half given, neither did fully what their father of asked them.

But that has some thing to do with if you give thought to going to a shop, then you go to a different shop, you have invested time thinking about the original shop which will be wasted, I believe you wouldn't have as much benefit from going to the second shop, if you think and invest energy into the first shop.

Here's a parable that goes along the lines of what I've said above.

"The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field". - Mathew13:44

Call it like attracts like, creative visualisation, karma. It doesn't matter, your just trying to make your labels superior to the next but even though the symbols are different, what the symbols symbolise isn't.

Here's another parable and it is called The parable of the sower, well it stems from it and means the same thing.

Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. - Mathew 13:24

All religions say the same.

If you dismiss my insight, you have none.

Philosophy is the science of estimating values. In order to find the superiority you must remove all the secondary.

Try understand the value of that you speak.

reply to post by Jinchuuriki

Originally posted by Jinchuuriki
We carried on for four months after that when she finally crushed me and went to go with him because they were "soul mates" and they should of been together from the get go. I'm devastated but better to be rid of her than for that to creep up later on in life (Say we had kids which we talked about?! Scary thoughts lol) about 8 months down the line I received a phone call with her askin to meet me she didn't know where to turn, her life was in ruins he left her to be with someone they both worked with. I simply smiled and said "Karmas a bitch" and hung up the phone.

In other words, she fell out of love with you and with your selfishness and aggression you wanted her to stay with you even when the feelings weren't the same and when she suffered later in life you "smiled" and was heartless to her instead of showing some compassion.

If "karma" was real, you would be treated with the same unforgivingness, and same heartlessness so you can see how it feels.

She did nothing wrong to you. You were away and SELFISHLY wanted her all to yourself and you didn't care that she fell out of love you wanted her to "fake" her emotions and keep going.

reply to post by arpgme

She did nothing wrong to you. You were away and SELFISHLY wanted her all to yourself and you didn't care that she fell out of love you wanted her to "fake" her emotions and keep going.

And you are saying your not hopelessly SELFISH?. News for you everyones selfishly in denial they themselves are selfish. Do deny this truth is to paramount to being a Hypocrite.

Originally posted by 3OGRE3
I agree with what you're saying Unity_99, but I have found that when people say "[something] isn't real" it is never followed up with any good reason for that something not being real. You could have said, you don't believe in Karma, but for millions of people, Karma is a real phenomenon ... why put them down like that, especially when you're trying to promote a message of kindness/love?

Just my 2 coppers,
O.G.R.E.

Its an inner knowing and remembrance of home, and when I write, its hard to push words out when my chronic fatigue and no thyroid create a condition where my brain isn't getting enough energy impulses, so that my organizational or left hemisphere starts to hiccup. For example, used to spell everything for my father who was a teacher but who was a bit dyslexic and always needed spelling, and used to beat the cash register at the store with the total as they hit the sales tax 7% button. this is all out the window now along being able to sort laundry, instead of just freezing.

So I flow what I know within, and don't use authorities such as scriptures and other methods to show because its within where the answers are, our memories and what LOVE is.

However some portions of scriptures are interesting for a new found look at the codes in them caught my attention in the last year or two. Genesis 32 30, penial as the city Jacob met God. Paul comparing baptism to Moses bringing the people out of Egypt, supposedly chased by the armies of Egypt, but he says, when they are crossing the RED SEA, to stand still and know God.

That is meditation, in fact, it is saying. How to still the mind from the useless chatter, and the dragon within, or negative thoughts pursuing you. to overcome the war and the armies of egypt within. To be a MAN OF PEACE, ie. The Parting of the Red Sea, overcoming all retaliation, violence and harm to others.

Oh man/woman of Peace, stand still (meditate) and Know God.

Anyway so the bible has interesting parts to me after all, in the end. And Paul who had been a misogynist to me for years, suddenly becomes an essene, a cathar, a positive loving taoist gnostic, Bruce Lee even if you will, a hero, and those words that subdue others, are probably grafted on by a controlling Rome to try and misdirect attention from his message.

Now relating to karma, let us look at Christ, and you will see when they said, this women has been caught in the very act of adultery.....They were saying, we have the law. The law says this. The cartel have a cosmic rule book and their law says this....Well Christ, along with Isaiah, as in 28, (who pointed out that their contracts were null and void and they had overburdened people with law), disagreed.

He wrote in the sand with his finger. Many church interpretations given here, however the natural is best.

He is the authority, he reaches into his heart to know the real law, and that LAW IS LOVE.

WE ARE ALL CALLED TO QUESTION EVERYTHING AND NOT BELIEVE ANY OF WHAT THEY SAY BUT USE DISCERNMENT AND THE HEART TO SEEK THE ANSWER.

This is related of course, to his death upon the cross. In the metaphor, this means overcoming your ego, dying to the old you, and ways, and becoming positive alligned, awoken, ascended with your inner open on the right frequency of LOVE and helping.

But in the literal idea of Christ murdered, if karma were true, they could never have put him to death.

Christ demonstrates, LOVE IS THE ONLY LAW AND TRUE.

In short, the examples given of a fundamental or real Christ, and the inner metaphoric Christ, both agree, Love is the only answer, and we are all called to do what Christ did, that is when someone puts forth a rule, law or idea, to question it, to reach within ourselves, our hearts, our LOVE. To know what Love truly is. If we're having problems and our Love has grown cold, then we are to see the weeds as in Matthew 13, and the programming holding us down, and meditate, pray and ask, for our sight and hearing to be healed, in other words, be deprogrammed. Proper use of our gifts is to grow them by helping others. I love that passage too.

What would the most Loving caring mother do? Your HS, the Good Family and God, as in the Whole Consciousness that we are all fractals of, far surpasses that.

Karma is a but a tool if it helps, ie. your HS may knock you over the head with it a few times when you are off track until you start to notice a repeat has occurred, ie. you just had the same bad relationship with someone. Is it their fault or is there something in you that needs to change?

But its not an end of our lives or punishment.

And its not anything compared to Love and having someone wake up and get going with overcoming the world, from whatever position they're in, even if they were raised in a ritualistic generational satanic family, they're called to wake up and grow their Love. Forgiveness and learning lessons is far more important to the Soul and Family, growth factor....than anything else.

They don't want their pound of flesh.

i have to add this, but people who actually believe in retalitation, capital punishment, have harsh judgments on others, and want to see justice (I do too, justice to me means everyone is healed and equal, and lives in safety, and beauty, and learns their lessons with abundance, justice to me means social justice).

Here is the Problem. It has to do with WHAT LOVE IS.

And God is LOVE.

Satan, Baal and the opposite is NOT LOVE BUT IS VENGEANCE.

So you are being encouraged by this world to switch your allegiance ,and even by the fundamental expressions of religions.

Overcome the beast, the body suit, the emotions, the cold logic, or the anger/retaliation, and free your inner LOVE.

One who judtges will be judged they have switched hats. And that is the whole trip the cartel and mismanagers of this planet are attempting, they are attempting to lay seige to your soul and overcome it and drag it down.

So the body suit is the winner, the beast and the opposite of Love if you believe in retaliation of any kind including some interpretations of karma.

Dark pieces in the chess game have zero, zilch, NO power of the white pieces. (this is not about race!!!!)

But they do attempt to lay seige to souls, to gradually drip drip drip the negative in until the soul believes that crapola.

reply to post by Unity_99

And God is LOVE.

GOD is the bringer of humanities conflicts.

GOD is also DEATH!

reply to post by AthlonSavage


No, God is NOT DEATH.

God is Consciousness and LIFE, eternal and infinite. And we, akin to cells of God, or fractals, are also Infinite Parts of Infinity.

There is actually NO SUCH THING AS DEATH. This is a dreamscape, illusion, and I've been shown the sleepers and the representation of the kind of simulated reality school this is.

God is ALL LOVE. Love is all there is. Only in the schools does negativity exist as a choice. Its purpose is to foster growth of love when you overcome that choice.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Unity_99

 

And God is LOVE.

GOD is the bringer of humanities conflicts.

GOD is also DEATH!

God is all so yes. God divides himself so he can enjoy conflict and drama - isn't it wonderful.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


GOD IS NOT ALL. Anymore than if you sat down, and invented a computer program or holographic work place, meeting place as a program. And minds sent consciosuness into the program. You are not, however, the program.

In the beginning, where there is no beginning and there can be no end, where all things exist infinitely, all at once, there are infinite types and varieties of energies, some conscious and some inanimate. That which has life and soul is God, and is interconnected, ie. Universal Understanding, or natural telepathy, like fibre optics connected via strands of light. We are the branches to the tree but each branch is eternal and endless and its endless infinite volume is = to the infinity all around it for infinity cannot be measured, and that is you and I.

What is inanimate, is the school.

Only here can souls experience fall, gravity, harm. Its artificial and not real. Only LOVE IS REAL. That which is outside the program.

I've stood on this whole universe like a poster when I was pulled in meditation, and brought to a life review. I was unable to get back into the universe, it was a construct, and also in this had to interpret that the picture we are creating with our thoughts, intents and actions so its time to co-create a better world and deprogram from all the negative ideas here.

If we are parts of God and some of us are deluded and insane in this lower frequency place that feels like being stuck in quicksand with lead boots (ie gravity), then in a sense it could be said some parts of God are being encased in lead. But it is the mud or the shadow, dust that weighs them down, the distortions.

When all is said and done, all souls blow off the dust and mud and return home. They are all light, and love. They will have either grown consciousness or even gone back a grade, unless Family has a plan that involves progressing all (AND THAT IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND SEE NO OTHER). That means in the end at the perfect timing this universe goes up, and that everyone is healed, and when healed and being infused with light, soul, consciousness and memory, chooses LOVE AGAIN. Even Baal, even Molloch, providing they are real and not some phantom AI program like Agent Smith was supposed to be. All souls will be redeemed.

Then all the information and lessons including things to be avoided for they cause horrendous loss and pain on the dark side, will be put together in one huge file and everyone will learn everything and progress to only helping and being wonderful, Teachers, Creators, and Designers themselves having only the greatest respect, caring, kindness, love for one another, and gratitude and wishing only the most wonderful happiness for all souls.

ALL SOULS!

Since words are clumsy and not always good at expressing exact meanings intended, wish to elaborate on the idea of all files being combined. When i say that we will learn everything, when the whole goes up, for all energies progress, both animate and inanimate. And this is seen in nature, which is a living library for study.

I am not endorsing choosing the wrong answers on the daily test and giving into to body suit and harming others. This is truly taking the long painful way back home, and causes not just the victims but ones own soul, such torture and loss, that no one in their right mind would ever do this, It is indeed insanity. Its not being said in the LAW OF ONE WAY, where there is no right and wrong, where nazi's are only loving you by rounding you up and throwing you in a fema camp.

NOPE, thats a failure.

What is learnt is what to avoid.

However Law of Oners are not in truth when they embrace such ideas. if God is all and merely learning lessons, then that god must be a very low level being to have had to repeat the lessons of war for trillions of years and murder as well.