Iceland Congress puts forward bill to grant Snowden citizenship

Hopefully Iceland truly has his best interests at heart. But eventually he'd be better off in a place as far away from Europe as possible.

Just to be factual.

This is only a brace of Icelandic MPs and very unlikely to get anywhere. It’s just politics and sensational reporting.

Iceland is not in the business of antagonising their friends, nor jeopardising relations for the sake of a wannabe celebrity who is being manipulated.

Snowdon should go home and face the music. The trial will be good listening.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


It would be fine to face the music if the system were just. Which it is not.

He is being charged with espionage. What is the definition of espionage? the practice of spying or using spies to obtain information about the plans and activities especially of a foreign government or a competing company.

He didn't do any of that. All he did was inform the American public of the corruption of the U.S. government. Specifically the N.S.A. He will find no justice in America.

So why do you think he should return? Where is the logic in that?

I hope that Iceland follows through. Snowden needs a safe haven.

with a population of 300.000 they will take anybody mass murderer come on in .

like living in a freezer come on in speak gobaldy gook come on in .

like seal and blubber come on in we have the place for you .

good luck eddy on the months of darkness if you go ps i hope you like fish

Originally posted by Diisenchanted
It would be fine to face the music if the system were just. Which it is not.

Is US civil justice unjust? You’ll get a more transparent trial in the US that you would in most of the nut-job nations he is trying to get to! He'll be able to take a pick of lawyers lining up to support this new cash cow.

He is being charged with espionage.

So he needs to go and defend himself and his motives.

So why do you think he should return? Where is the logic in that?

Because no one wants him. He has made his bed, now he can lie in it. He won’t get too badly punished and will get rich writing his autobiography. He’s fired his shots. Told us nothing we did not know already and is just being manipulated by others with an agenda. Once he’s no more use he’ll end up being sold out with no cards to hold.

I hope that Iceland follows through. Snowden needs a safe haven.

But we know they won’t, don’t we!?

Regards

Originally posted by billdadobbie
with a population of 300.000 they will take anybody mass murderer come on in .

like living in a freezer come on in speak gobaldy gook come on in .

like seal and blubber come on in we have the place for you .

good luck eddy on the months of darkness if you go ps i hope you like fish

What are you talking about?

Good on Iceland, they seem to like saying F you to the big world players and taking the side of ordinary, decent citizens and they also seem a fair and just country.

If I were looking to relocate, I know where I'd be moving.

reply to post by paraphi


Sorry to say but you are in the minority. Most people don't think the same way you do and it is a damn good thing.

In the end he done us a favor. He should be commended not convicted .

I was pointing out that what he is being charged with is a bogus charge. If they actually charged him with some thing real then maybe he should come back. This is simply not a legitimate charge.

Ever hear of indefinite detention? Ya come back my butt.

Originally posted by Taggart

Originally posted by billdadobbie
with a population of 300.000 they will take anybody mass murderer come on in .

like living in a freezer come on in speak gobaldy gook come on in .

like seal and blubber come on in we have the place for you .

good luck eddy on the months of darkness if you go ps i hope you like fish

What are you talking about?

ICELAND what did you think the food store

Hope so. Have been concerned he was going to start looking like the Mehran Nasseri who spent 11 years inside an airport due to no passport.

Doesn't look like its going to happen guys...

bigstory.ap.org...

The proposal to grant Snowden citizenship received limited support when it was discussed Thursday — the last day before summer recess. Six members of minority parties were in favor out of Parliament's 63 members.

reply to post by introV


Ugh you beat me to it!!!!
Sadly, 6 out of 63 isn't enough

reply to post by starchild10


The Daily Mail is reporting that Snowden is in a 4-star hotel in Moscow:

Snowden's luxury hotel

I think the Russians are putting him up in comfort and style while he remains in their country!

How is storing items that people willing put on social media "spying on their citizens"?

If I were to go back through my friends' timelines (or anyone who doesn't have a private profile), I can see everything they've posted for years. Doesn't mean I'm spying on them.

How 'bout if you were reading all their emails and listening in on all their phone calls, which they were NOT willing to put on social media? Would THAT constitute spying? Because that's what it's all about, not following someone's lousy Facebook or Twitter.

Iceland rocks its the only other place other than Australia id live permanently in the world.

So if this had passed, 'Ice land' would have been his 'Snow den'?

This is a joke, right?

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by soulwaxer
reply to post by JBA2848

 

BREAKING NEWS: Le Monde is reporting that France too is spying on its citizens... Storing facebook and twitter communication.

Puts a new outlook on the restriction of airspace by France... As the poster above said, it's all interconnected.

edit on 4-7-2013 by soulwaxer because: ETA

How is storing items that people willing put on social media "spying on their citizens"?

If I were to go back through my friends' timelines (or anyone who doesn't have a private profile), I can see everything they've posted for years. Doesn't mean I'm spying on them.

Firstly, people using these services be that for a status update, photo or storage of personally identifiable information do so on the basis the data is being securely held on the servers of the provider and temporarily on the devices of those they have permitted to view this information. Which leads to point two;

Not everyone makes their "profile" (for clarity - this means their personal detail and any updates) public, these people have an expectation and right of privacy. This information has not willingly been shared with governments - be that their own or another. Unless the state can provide good reason why this privacy should be broken on an individual basis then it is simply unacceptable to "just store" the data on a server unrelated to the purpose for which they have accessed the service.

Third: Privacy rights are enshrined in law around the world and are not in the gift of one person to give to another. That you do not understand the issues does not mean that it is therefore ok for the principles of these laws to be broken in the misleading guise of "security".

Originally posted by paraphi

It would be fine to face the music if the system were just. Which it is not.

Is US civil justice unjust? You’ll get a more transparent trial in the US that you would in most of the nut-job nations he is trying to get to! He'll be able to take a pick of lawyers lining up to support this new cash cow.

This sounds hollow even to the most ardent supporters of the US. Truth is, the US is a nasty, manipulative state which is as bad as the nations its people lambast but pretends to be anything but.

Lets consider a few things -

State executions - really?! What is this, the dark ages? We occasionally hear of them wanting to execute someone who has a learning disability or where there seems to be reasonable doubt into the persons guilt.

Very democratic.

Guantanamo Bay. 'nuff said on that.

Extraordinary rendition - kidnapping foreign citizens to do with them as you wish in "black prisons". Nice.

State sanctioned assassinations all over the world. Nice.

These are just a few of the current issues not even counting some of its more historical crimes which we know all too well.

And you have the brass neck to sit there any call other nations "nut-jobs". Physician heal thyself!

He is being charged with espionage.
So he needs to go and defend himself and his motives.

He's already explained his motivations. Why does he need to do anything which complies with the wishes of the corrupt government which forced him to turn whistleblower in the first place?

Seems he, like many of us, now have absolutely no respect for the people, systems and actions of the US government.

So why do you think he should return? Where is the logic in that?

Because no one wants him. He has made his bed, now he can lie in it. He won’t get too badly punished and will get rich writing his autobiography. He’s fired his shots. Told us nothing we did not know already and is just being manipulated by others with an agenda. Once he’s no more use he’ll end up being sold out with no cards to hold.

Firstly, "no-one wants him" - not true. People around the world have said they'd be proud for their nation to give him asylum - it is the governments, too scared of the US or having their own dirty secrets revealed who won't help out this chap.

As for "telling us nothign we didn't know". He provided evidence of what we believed to be the case but its more than that - we've all seen the disgusting response from the US government, the complicity of governments around the world and even the UN.

Obama has proven himself to be a far worse president than Bush ever was- and most people never thought that'd be possible.

I hope that Iceland follows through. Snowden needs a safe haven.

But we know they won’t, don’t we!?

What we do know is that Iceland have stood up to the US on privacy issues in the past. That they seem to be the only nation pro-actively looking to help Snowden.

The effects of Snowdens heroic efforts will be felt for decades to come in the dealings nations have with each other and with the view the citizens of these nations hold of their governments and of countries like the US.

Originally posted by citizenx1
Firstly, "no-one wants him" - not true. People around the world have said they'd be proud for their nation to give him asylum - it is the governments, too scared of the US or having their own dirty secrets revealed who won't help out this chap.

As for "telling us nothign we didn't know". He provided evidence of what we believed to be the case but its more than that - we've all seen the disgusting response from the US government, the complicity of governments around the world and even the UN.

Obama has proven himself to be a far worse president than Bush ever was- and most people never thought that'd be possible.

Snowden likely lost a lot of international support once he started revealing information of governments spying on other governments. Not only does everyone do it, and not want their secrets revealed but that sort of espionage is recognized as a very good thing. Without it, we would have killed everyone on the planet during the Cold War.

I think Snowdens problem at this point is that he revealed too much. If he stuck solely to issues between citizens and the government he would have a lot more support. As for Obama being worse than Bush, I'm not so sure. Obama certainly isn't great and has proven himself to be worse than Bush on issues like civil liberties but Bush set a very low bar. I think Obama is slightly better but really, they're both in the worst 10 presidents ever, maybe worst 5. They're each so bad that I'm not sure there's really any point in really analyzing who is worse than who.

What we do know is that Iceland have stood up to the US on privacy issues in the past. That they seem to be the only nation pro-actively looking to help Snowden.

The effects of Snowdens heroic efforts will be felt for decades to come in the dealings nations have with each other and with the view the citizens of these nations hold of their governments and of countries like the US.

I would be very surprised if they accept Snowden. Maybe if he stuck to just stuff pertaining to his initial release of documents, but he went beyond that and that makes him much harder to defend. I really wish he would come back to the US to stand trial. Personally I think he deserves a medal, commendation, parade, or so on for some of what he did and if it were within my power I would give him safe harbor, but other things he did, he does need to goto court for if it were possible for him to receive a fair trial which simply isn't possible at this point.

In an age of untrustworthy governments, Iceland has deeply impressed me with it's views and actions - views that increasingly reflect that of the common people worldwide.
They reflect sanity and responsibility - a willingness to reason and not judge. They are a far cry from the USA that seems to scream vile spit-filled hate and anger at anyone who dares expose their crimes.
No government is perfect, none are totally guilt-free - yet all we want is a little accountability.

I still maintain that the average American is a good, hard working reasonable person. They believe in what is right. But I am also of the opinion that most German's under Hitler were good, hard working people with a great sense of pride in their country. They also trusted their leaders.

It is sad that I have to quote a comic-book hero but I find it very appropriate in this context: "with great power comes great responsibility". USA has the power but is ultimately abusing it's responsibility.
For me, the Great American Dream is over - the price being paid for the Land of the Free is too expensive.