Your "Ufology" Is Lacking. Can You Handle the Truth (Evidence)?

My goal here is not to make a statement of alleged fact, but, rather, to consider the observations of some great minds. Yeah, to be honest, however, I find the following statements and quotations to be thought provoking to the point of revelatory.

The following article makes some interesting points about the ancient civilizations of the Egyptians, Babylonians, Aztecs, Mayans, and Incas that refutes the Ancient Aliens hypothesis with one that makes more sense to me.

Before you criticize, consider that most of the quotes below are not only from secular authors, but are also from folk that most likely have more credentials than yourself. If you have greater credentials/scholarship than those listed, please state them. Not that so-called "credentials" are the be-all-end-all, but you should come prepared to defend your point or show your ignorance.

I don't necessarily agree with all the author's talking points, but generally find them revealing.

Demons in Alien's Clothing

Accomplished Occultists are very familiar with the true nature of the beings who sometimes pose as E.T.

Aleister Crowley's Lam & the Little Grey Men

Adam Gorightly also expands on Magic(k) and UFOs in the following excellent article.

Ritual Magic, Mind Control and the UFO Phenomenon

Dr. David Clarke presents a very balanced look at the subject in this Fortean Times article:

Flying Saucers From Hell

"But the UFO phenomenon simply does not behave like extraterrestrial visitors. It actually molds itself in order to fit a given culture."
- John Ankerberg, The Facts on UFOs and Other Supernatural Phenomena, p. 10

"We are dealing with a multidimensional paraphysical phenomenon which is largely indigenous to planet earth." 
- Brad Steiger, [cited in] Blue Book Files Released in Canadian UFO Report, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1977, p. 20

"One theory which can no longer be taken very seriously is that UFOs are interstellar spaceships." 
- Arthur C. Clarke, New York Times Book Review, 07/27/75

"There seems to be no evidence yet that any of these craft or beings originate from outer space." 
-Gordon Creighton, Official 1992 Flying Saucer Review Policy Statement

"A large part of the available UFO literature is closely linked with mysticism and the metaphysical. It deals with subjects like mental telepathy, automatic writing and invisible entities as well as phenomena like poltergeist [ghost] manifestation and 'possession.' Many of the UFO reports now being published in the popular press recount alleged incidents that are strikingly similar to demonic possession and psychic phenomena." 
- Lynn E. Catoe, UFOs and Related Subjects: USGPO, 1969; prepared under AFOSR Project Order 67-0002 and 68-0003

"UFO behaviour is more akin to magic than to physics as we know it... the modern UFOnauts and the demons of past days are probably identical." 
-Dr. Pierre Guerin, FSR Vol. 25, No. 1, p. 13-14

"The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon..." 
- John A. Keel, UFOs: Operation Trojan Horse, p. 299

"A working knowledge of occult science...is indispensable to UFO investigation." 
-Trevor James, FSR Vol. 8, No. 1, p.10

"Studies of flying saucer cults repeatedly show that they are part of a larger occult social world." 
-Stupple & McNeece, 1979 MUFON UFO Symposium Proceedings, p. 49

More thought-provoking quotes Here

Then we have Jack Parsons:

The present age is under the influence of a force, in magical terminology, Horus. It's manifestations may be noted in the destruction of old institutions and ideas, the discovery and liberation of new energies, and a trend towards power governments, war, homosexuality, infantilism, and schizophrenia. ~ Jack Parsons

One thing we can be sure of: We live with a mystery that no simple explanation can elucidate, Peace my brothers and sisters.

1 has considered a paranormal potential connection to the metaphysical aspects of EXISTENCE. So to 1 its not hard to consider some energies native or non native here interacting within paranormal boundaries of EA*RTH..

Nice share The GUT

NAMASTE*******

reply to post by The GUT


Dear THE GUT,

S&F; but, you didn't mention Jacque Vallee. He worked on Project Blue Book and helped create the internet. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia page on him.

Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact.

Dr. Vallee believes in an inter-dimensional non-alien hypothesis also.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by The GUT

 

Dear THE GUT,

S&F; but, you didn't mention Jacque Vallee. He worked on Project Blue Book and helped create the internet. Here is a quote from the Wikipedia page on him.

Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time. The phenomenon has been active throughout human history, and seems to masquerade in various forms to different cultures. In his opinion, the intelligence behind the phenomenon attempts social manipulation by using deception on the humans with whom they interact.

Dr. Vallee believes in an inter-dimensional non-alien hypothesis also.

Heheh, my dear AQuestion...I do have some relevant JV quotes...but I'm tryin' to slip in the 'backdoor' here. Gimme a minute, K?

I just cannot buy the demon theory.
With the evidence we see of technological advances from these creatures, we would be toast by now if there were a truly evil intent.
Rather, check out the works of Dr. John Mack. His in-depth interviews with abductees suggests there is mind-expanding, even spiritual evolution taking place with these contacts.

Originally posted by UncleVinnys
I just cannot buy the demon theory.
With the evidence we see of technological advances from these creatures, we would be toast by now if there were a truly evil intent.
Rather, check out the works of Dr. John Mack. His in-depth interviews with abductees suggests there is mind-expanding, even spiritual evolution taking place with these contacts.

Don't get me wrong, Unca Vinny...I don't state categorically that we are dealing with "demons," but, rather, that we are dealing with the age-old phenomenon that often falls under the "demonological" categories.

Suggesting that we just might be dealing with an intelligence much closer to home. HEY...I didn't author the quotes above; I just suggest they are worthy of consideration seeing as how they come from fairly impressive minds that have spent a significant part of their lives pondering the question. K?

Very interesting topic and train of thought Gut, kudos for such a well presented thread, S&F but I still need to sift through and read much of this

I am open minded to the concept of the UFO/alien phenomenon being interdimensional or 'demonic'.

I had a personal experience with someone who channeled a demon several times in my presence (intensely scary), then channeled a set of entities that claimed to not be from here. I know, to this day I still don't know what to believe of the experiences I had with this person.

I'm looking forward to looking over this material (finishing up the Lam report now), but I'm following ya so far. Thanks for posting it up brother!

reply to post by The GUT


ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Even scientist Dr Jacques Vallee asserted that after 10 years of study, he concluded they were evil critters from an evil spiritual DIMENSION vs from distant planets.

And, evidently Dr Hynek was largely in agreement on such scores.

Cris Putnam and Tom Horn in Exo-Vaticana cover such facts and sources very exhaustively.

reply to post by The GUT


With the range of incidents and possible explanations, I don't think what you've posted quite covers it all, although I guess that a theory can be possible until ruled out, so it could cover some cases.

Outwith the traditional theory of some UFOs could be non-terrestrial, I've always been intrigued by the some UFOs could be a break away part of the human race idea.

As I said, all theories remain possible until ruled out

While I will continue to remain tacit regarding my academic and professional credentials, I'll maintain the stance supported in peer reviewed studies regarding space alien contact experiences that evidence suggests space alien contact experiences are largely the providence and result of Psychological Phenomenon.

These experiences may even be reliably replicated in the lab where no evidence of any real physical manifestation of anything that could be construed as 'paranormal', or 'interdimensional' have been logged in evidence.

Sleep Paralysis, Schizotype expression, as well as artificial drug induced expression of neurological states similar previous and others have been observed.

Many will disagree and even take offense to such, but, of all the sciences that have examined the UFO and Alien Abduction/contact/experience phenomenon, Psychology has been the most successful and possibly had the only successes out of any scientific examination of these phenomenons in reliably replicating and testing postulates successfully.
Thus, from a purely scientific standpoint, where reliable predictable replication of results that can be logged and peer reviewed with objectivity and very little 'interpretation' required, results coming from Psychology would strongly indicate a large portion of experiences in the wild as resulting from a person's own personal neurological state.
This would certainly account for social evolutions and perceptions over time among many other factors.

reply to post by Druscilla


Out of curiosity, if you hold that theory then how would you explain the mass sighting incidents such as these?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And there are many more

reply to post by UncleVinnys


Sounds like

you are UTTERLY CONFIDENT of having scoped out exhaustively

the pretend ET critters

1. goals
2. strategies
3. methods
4. sequencing
5. timelines.

Whereas,

I'm fairly convinced that all such notions on your part are utter fantasies, guesses from a mixture of your biases and plenty of disinformation in the field.

reply to post by Druscilla
Dru, it's always hard to try and refute your logic. I LOVE it and your normally superior logic informs me as well. I also notice--I think--that you keep an amazingly open mind. Gut loves your mind, but I'm pretty sure you know that.

Having said that, it seems as if you have a laser focus. Not to say that's a bad thing, but it does suggest your "scientific" mindset lacks the creative brilliance that has always accompanied our greatest discoveries.
inj s0e
Surely, "truth:" is much more complex than that which we can explain in easy, coherent termsw.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


When it comes to the South African Children, just for one, not ALL of the children were interviewed, and those that were were interviewed by over-zealous biased UFOlogists who did not follow anti-contamination protocols.

Children were interviewed in the same room as the others where everyone could hear what was being asked and said, thus giving anyone interviewed after cues for what they themselves might 'want' to report.

Pictures drawn by children showed an extremely wild wide variety of differences; spaceship with square door, spaceship with round door, spaceship with portholes, spaceship without portholes, aliens with regular eyes, aliens with hair, aliens without hair, so forth and so on.

You may wish to familiarize yourself with the concept of witness contamination, sympathetic collusion, Asch Conformity and other factors that come into play that make group and mass sightings reporting 'similar' events quite possible, even when absolutely nothing of any interest or import has happened.


Here, for instance is an ATS thread about a TOP TEN UFO sighting case in the Yukon describing a mass sighting where a giant alien Mothership was described in detail by some. Come to find out, in reality, witnesses saw an atmospheric reentry event.

It's quite very interesting how mundane but unusual events can get blown so completely out of proportion into the realm of fantasy and science fiction especially where groups are involved.

You are who you hang out with and you think what your peers think. You might not think so, but, this is true of most.

reply to post by Druscilla


This PhD in clinical psychology disagrees with you.

But then I've studied the topic since 1962

as well as had a close relative work where he saw the craft coming and going from an adjacent test area.

Also, I find Guy Malone and his panel of scholars exceedingly convincing . . .

www.alienresistance.org...

as are

L.A. Marzulli
Chuck Missler
Jacques Vallee
A Hynek
. . .
. . .

Your explanation also does NOT account for more than 4,000 trace landing cases very scientifically investigated and analyzed.

Nor does it account for babies being taken from the womb at the end of the first trimester.

Nor does it account for the rather advanced tech implants.

etc. etc. etc.

.

reply to post by Druscilla


Well of course the other cases had teachers as witnesses also

On the South African case:

and those that were were interviewed by over-zealous biased UFOlogists

Or, Ufologists who knew what they were doing and seeking answers, as we all are

Children were interviewed in the same room as the others where everyone could hear what was being asked and said, thus giving anyone interviewed after cues for what they themselves might 'want' to report.

Was that before or after John Mack interviewed them because all the interviews I seen were of them alone. Additionally, so you don't think that some kind of incident or event happened in SA?

Here, for instance is an ATS thread about a TOP TEN UFO sighting case in the Yukon describing a mass sighting where a giant alien Mothership was described in detail by some. Come to find out, in reality, witnesses saw an atmospheric reentry event. It's quite very interesting how mundane but unusual events can get blown so completely out of proportion into the realm of fantasy and science fiction especially where groups are involved. You are who you hang out with and you think what your peers think. You might not think so, but, this is true of most.

I am familiar with that case and indeed the debunking effort thrown at it. As is so adequately pointed out in the same thread, the witness statements come nowhere close to describing what Mr. Debunker says it is. And for your consideration, you may want to check out the case info again, specifically what the witnesses say www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by The GUT
I believe we see what we are most likely to accept, what we might expect to see, and that is why so many people describe supposed UFOs and ETs completely differently as if they are tailored to the individual witnesses perception. I also believe that this ties into the way some people describe UFOs as somehow interacting with them on some sort of telepathic level. In the ancient past people saw gods and goddesses and chariots of fire,followed by Angels and Demons; today we see space ships and balls of light and Greys and Nordic looking aliens. It's interesting how the sightings have changed with the cultural expectations.

Don't forget the "The Shaver Mystery", that caused a stir.

After its initial effect on the Amazing Stories readership, the Shaver Mystery continued to influence science fiction and other general literature. Many modern books, movies, and games make references to Deros and other aspects of Shaver's story. The Shaver Mystery has also influenced believers of paranormal phenomena. This has taken various forms, from suspected connections between the Deros and UFOs to appearances of the Deros in the mythology of the Church of the Subgenius.

en.wikipedia.org...

and Planetary objects proposed in religion, astrology, ufology and pseudoscience Especially, "Ummo", that really took off! en.wikipedia.org...

Lots of spaced out stuff that spaces out folks!

Ummo or Ummoism : describes a series of decades-long claims that aliens from the planet Ummo were communicating with persons on the Earth. Most Ummo information was in the form of many detailed documents and letters sent to various esoteric groups or UFO enthusiasts. The Ummo affair was subject to much mainstream attention in France and Spain during the 1960s through the 1970s, and a degree of interest remains regarding the subject. General consensus is that the Ummoism was an elaborate hoax.

Originally posted by Druscilla

While I will continue to remain tacit regarding my academic and professional credentials, I'll maintain the stance supported in peer reviewed studies regarding space alien contact experiences that evidence suggests space alien contact experiences are largely the providence and result of Psychological Phenomenon.

These experiences may even be reliably replicated in the lab where no evidence of any real physical manifestation of anything that could be construed as 'paranormal', or 'interdimensional' have been logged in evidence.

Sleep Paralysis, Schizotype expression, as well as artificial drug induced expression of neurological states similar previous and others have been observed.

Many will disagree and even take offense to such, but, of all the sciences that have examined the UFO and Alien Abduction/contact/experience phenomenon, Psychology has been the most successful and possibly had the only successes out of any scientific examination of these phenomenons in reliably replicating and testing postulates successfully.
Thus, from a purely scientific standpoint, where reliable predictable replication of results that can be logged and peer reviewed with objectivity and very little 'interpretation' required, results coming from Psychology would strongly indicate a large portion of experiences in the wild as resulting from a person's own personal neurological state.
This would certainly account for social evolutions and perceptions over time among many other factors.

Good argument, but it's just a self-contained definition that doesn't hold water.
Just because SOME of the perceptions of abductees can be replicated under laboratory
conditions does not mean you're looking at the same phenomenon.
Like near-death experiences, the abduction produces profound and long-lasting after-effects,
changes that are not seen in experimental or drug-induced experiences.
Something like 60% of married people who lose a spouse report some kind of
paranormal activity - a visit from the deceased, a voice, a physical change. They cannot
all be crazy.
10% of all heart victims who are resuscitated report an out-of-body or NDE.
That represents thousands of cases, and again, they're not all crazy.
The same is true for alien encounters.

Yes, I agree that there are valuable clues to be gained by looking at the psychological factors,
but all too often the debunkers seem to take on the impossible task of proving that there is no
spiritual element to these events; they try to prove there is no outside agency or power greater
than the human psyche. They too often try to reduce truly awe-inspiring evidence to nothing
more than dispassionate chemicals and self-delusion. What a sad commentary!

reply to post by RUFFREADY


Ahhh yes, the classic Ummo, as much as I try to be my own man and not go with the trends, I too threw this theory out