Bolivian leader's plane rerouted because Snowden suspected on board

To put this straight. Every plane with Snowden aboard should not be rerouted but escorted by a twenty jet fighters GUARD OF HONOUR.

Originally posted by pigsy2400
reply to post by christina-66

 

could be a good example of misdirection , let the us and France/Austria think he's on the plane so they can shuttle him somewhere else, was the first thing that I thought

These were my thoughts exactly. It would make sense for there to be a "diversion" of sorts if they are really trying to help him out or not. Who knows though?

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Liquesence

 

I am presently on a long term job in Europe and I tell you, they really despise americans all over the place. We, and our constant bullying of what we consider insignificant or smaller nations, is utterly hated (well everyone dislikes a bully).

French politicians from the right and the left and a leader of Germany’s Green Party called for their countries to grant amnesty to Snowden on Monday amid continental outrage over reports America bugged offices of the European Union.

Things are now so bad that the European Union has ordered a worldwide security sweep of all its premises following reports US intelligence has bugged its offices in Washington, Brussels and the United Nations.

Jose Manuel Barroso, president of the EU's Executive Commission, instructed the commission services to proceed to a comprehensive ad hoc security sweep and check in light of the most recent spying allegations leveled at the US.

Things have really changed since the pre-Obama era. Bush at least bullied only arab speaking nations like Iraq or North african countries. Obama´s thugs bullies everyone. This thing with the NSA spying on eveyrbody in Europe and the armtwisting of European authorities to force down the Airforce One of the Bolivian president will have serious repricussions I tell you.

It seems Warbama has gone totally bananas.

I'm curious if those NSA computers of his are able to recognize this pattern.....
 
 
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edit on 3-7-2013 by johncarter because: (no reason given)

And to think he actually won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"."...... UGH!

Is it known who the air-carrier was, i.e., which airline?

France is believed to be on the "bomb Syria starting yesterday" roster and no friend of Obama, meaning that embarrassing Obama is a political move in the shadowy, unacknowledged tussle in Washington to control US foreign policy. Webster Tarpley believes that this is really what is going on behind the scenes of the various scandalous puppet plays in the press.

Snowdon, Benghazigate and the military firings that followed it, and other things like the Secret Service hooker holiday in Colombia are all signs of a move to get rid of Obama or at least to force him to change policies and start moving hard on Syria and Iran.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Is it known who the air-carrier was, i.e., which airline?

France is believed to be on the "bomb Syria starting yesterday" roster and no friend of Obama, meaning that embarrassing Obama is a political move in the shadowy, unacknowledged tussle in Washington to control US foreign policy. Webster Tarpley believes that this is really what is going on behind the scenes of the various scandalous puppet plays in the press.

Snowdon, Benghazigate and the military firings that followed it, and other things like the Secret Service hooker holiday in Colombia are all signs of a move to get rid of Obama or at least to force him to change policies and start moving hard on Syria and Iran.

edit on 3-7-2013 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

Bolivian President Evo Morales' FAB1 Jet has finally left Europe and is heading home. See my Flightradar map below on its current position.



more real time info here: Link

Originally posted by jarrodpace
The United States is exposed as spying on these nations, yet, they still go out of their way not to upset the American government.

GUTLESS! There are no American allies, only puppets!

It is looking more and more like poor Snowden is done for...

FREEDOM IS DEAD!

Well said. These are not "allies, only puppets"

Absolutely agree with that. What a disgrace this is. Its an outrage. People, in those countries just take it. Snowden is speaking up about something very serious and people just sleep on it? Let their countries respond to the puppet masters in this way?

Goodness gracious those countries should be ashamed of themselves. I can't say just how much of a disgrace this has been.

Bolivia should recall it's ambassadors from France and Portugal for consultations. JMO.

Peace!

reply to post by talisman


You honestly think those countries didn't know it was happening, and haven't been doing the exact same thing? I watched a documentary ten years ago where the NSA flat out said we monitor our allies and they monitor us. Most of them are hoping of they show a little outrage then questions about their own programs don't come up.

This is how I see whole thing...

All those countries are part of NATO, so guess who controls their air. IMHO decisions were not made in those countries, but here in states. That is how we now have conflicting information regarding clearance.

Just imagine, situation/control room similar as viewed in Bourne Identity dedicated to Snowden.

Has anyone ever been stripped of their Nobel Peace prize? Because I think we have a good candidate for that...

America has Lost it.
the world is turning against them.
as they should.
they all need to stop all trading with them.
Make them back down.

America will never recover from this.
not only financially but morally
USA is bankrupt!

If it were a private air carrier there might be some wiggle room, but to interfere with an airplane belonging to a national airforce, carrying a nation's president is an absolute breach of international diplomacy and diplomatic immunity, I should think.

Wouldn't a vehicle like that be the equivalent to a national embassy?

Smoothing this over is not going to be an easy job. No head of state of any nation in the world will be able to depend on receiving the traditional courtesies and privileges that civilized discourse between nations demands.

I cannot believe that all of this is going on in relation to one fugitive. I'm really at a loss to find a rational explanation of the behavior of America and its allies in this matter. I can't believe this is all really about the arrest of Edward Snowdon.

If it were they would have let him go to Ecuador with little or no protest and political body English and then kidnapped him on the ground there. Am I wrong in this?

If Israel could kidnap Eichmann out of Argentina or Paraguay and a bunch of SAS hooligans on holiday could, as a lark, kidnap Ronnie Biggs out of Brazil, scooping Snowdon out of Ecuador should not be much more difficult.

I think this is all about making trouble for Obama, despite the surveillance problems to which Snowdon is drawing attention.

:-D
This reminds me of: "If you pick it, it won´t get better".
This entertaining move should be quite a talk in Bolivia, France and Portugal - and I´d be surprised if this type of PR creates more fans for the US and its aims.

Maybe someone should tell the relevant people in the US administration that amazingly bad losers tend to discredit themselves more by their abysmally embarrassing actions, than by their actual losses. - or maybe not; it´s quite hillarious this way :-D

Originally posted by ipsedixit
If it were a private air carrier there might be some wiggle room, but to interfere with an airplane belonging to a national airforce, carrying a nation's president is an absolute breach of international diplomacy and diplomatic immunity, I should think.

Wouldn't a vehicle like that be the equivalent to a national embassy?

Smoothing this over is not going to be an easy job. No head of state of any nation in the world will be able to depend on receiving the traditional courtesies and privileges that civilized discourse between nations demands.

I cannot believe that all of this is going on in relation to one fugitive. I'm really at a loss to find a rational explanation of the behavior of America and its allies in this matter. I can't believe this is all really about the arrest of Edward Snowdon.

If it were they would have let him go to Ecuador with little or no protest and political body English and then kidnapped him on the ground there. Am I wrong in this?

Your reasoning is correct and US is going to suffer from what I assume are the mad actions by a horribly aggressive Obama-administration. I bet you will see France loose deals in south america (because they participated in this) and also declining trades between sout american nations and US. US is already despised in Europe for its recent actions and is rapidly loosing friends in Asia.

The only thing I think makes Obama allow all this thuggery on international diplomacy is that Snowden must be in possession of some super secret information, that is so dangerous to this administration they will do anything to catch him or kill him. Right now the russians are protecting him but even Putin seems horrified by what he knows about this info and thus told the press that Snowden can stay in Russia provided he doesnt leak anymore of this info.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Is it known who the air-carrier was, i.e., which airline?

France is believed to be on the "bomb Syria starting yesterday" roster and no friend of Obama, meaning that embarrassing Obama is a political move in the shadowy, unacknowledged tussle in Washington to control US foreign policy. Webster Tarpley believes that this is really what is going on behind the scenes of the various scandalous puppet plays in the press.

Snowdon, Benghazigate and the military firings that followed it, and other things like the Secret Service hooker holiday in Colombia are all signs of a move to get rid of Obama or at least to force him to change policies and start moving hard on Syria and Iran.

edit on 3-7-2013 by ipsedixit because: (no reason given)

This is exactly my sentiment. Snowden has not leaked anything worth anything. These monitoring systems have been around since the Clinton years. Furthermore, the European leadership knew about these systems as well, so all the grumbling over these revelations are humorous at best. We've known about the imminent implementation of the Utah data center for years as well. I'm curious as to what people thought it was meant for.The global leadership infighting over foreign policy is certainly nothing new. Look no further than the infighting between the U.S. Intel agencies and the DOD over the Iraq invasion. When you look at the Executive resistance to intervene in Syria, the rolling out of scandal after scandal, and the subsequent Executive easing on their hardline position (aiding the rebels) it gives a strong indication of pointing in the direction that this is the reality of the situation.Once again, Snowden never compromised anything. There really is no amazing revelations that would bring the system or any major political figures down. Nothing on the massive criminal banking activity that's still ongoing. Nothing on the questionable circumstances of 9-11, or the false pretenses of the Iraq invasion. ETC. ETC. ETC. Nothing worth anything. You're chasing smoke. Period... End of story.

reply to post by johncarter

You should get over to Webster Tarpley's website and listen to his last couple of radio broadcasts.

tarpley.net...

In a nutshell, a lot of what is happening in the Obama administration in the way of SNAFUs, is the result of a behind the scenes power struggle aimed at either getting rid of Obama or of his policies. It is working as anyone who reads these threads knows. The anti-Obama sentiment is very great. Even the New York Times jumped on the bandwagon.

Tarpley says that Al Gore did an end run around Bill Clinton in ordering the bombing of Serbia during that administration and that John "Skull and Bones" Kerry attempted to do the same with regard to bombing Syria, over the head of the President. That happened, according to Tarpley, in April, and was only stopped by a high ranking military officer who would not play ball with a dramatic escalation in Syria. His opposition was enough to scupper Kerry, who Tarpley believes should be impeached.

Obama is an embattled president and a lot of the messes occurring are the result of attempts by various contending forces to sabotage his policies. He is, of course, no saint, but Tarpley believes that there is a struggle for control of the helm of the ship of state in the US at the moment, if I understand him.

The forces who want to make things difficult for Obama are much darker and more sinister in their intentions, globally.

Originally posted by xavi1000
Bolivian plane crossed Austria, reached almost to the Alps and then did 180 degrees turn and returned to Vienna and landed there.
US suspects that there is a known spy on board. They positively know that there is a Bolivian president and his entourage on board, who just finished trade talks with another internationally important person - Putin. The US does not care about diplomatic protocols, relative rank and pride of people - they just want their game and refuse to allow the plane to fly home.

twitter.com...

edit on 2-7-2013 by xavi1000 because: (no reason given)

I'm wondering what they would have done if the Bolivians had said "No" and continued flying - would they have seriously shot the plane down? Yeah, right!

reply to post by ipsedixit


If they had boarded the plane, yes. They simply refused it the right to use their airspace. The controlling countries have every right to refuse any plane, regardless of who is on it, the right to transit their airspace.

Originally posted by rainprincess64

Originally posted by johncarter
reply to post by Liquesence

 

edit on 3-7-2013 by johncarter because: (no reason given)

And to think he actually won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2009 "for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"."...... UGH!

Can a Nobel be revoked?

Maybe start a letter writing campaign to have it revoked, appeal to the Nobel committee.

Possibly what happened here is someone leaked this (obviously), knowing Snowden wasn't on the flight to see, on a flight crossing the EU, which countries would stop it.

Just a feint to see if this was a safe passage or not.