Why do Christians believe in a God that has "chosen" the Jews

Originally posted by Deetermined

 

This stigma that you have attached to Jews isn't healthy.

You've let a bunch of propaganda get to you in a way that it shouldn't.

You're not entirely wrong, in that I am experiencing something odd at this very moment. But it is not a stigma and not due to propaganda. I am retired and started going to church more often, and also research and examine my beliefs, rather than just taking things for granted.

Also, my grandfather was Jewish, so I always had a sense of pride for being associated with their accomplishments. But I am looking for information, not for esoteric or occult meaning. To understand the meaning of the phrases that are being tossed around, I would need to study the bio of the author, their language, the political context in which they spoke, and have it authenticated from independent sources.

I don't know that I will live long enough to do all that for eveything I read. But I can't just rely on religious sources.

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Jewish literature makes it plain that Jews are not Israelites.

Clearly, you have a lot more knowledge about this than I do. Thanks for sharing this.

Can you say what is the difference between Jew and Israelite and why this is significant?

Originally posted by Astrocyte

 

Thinking a tad myopically, are we?

My question was mostly about why Christianity started out some 2000 years ago, especially given that Judaism was there already, not focusing on the word ‘chosen’. If we needed a new religion, why not come up with new God(s)?

Maybe it is a natural thing to happen, that the new religion takes over the God(s) of the older one. But maybe because our/my ‘myopia’ we imagine that our religion is something original. Okay, so I was wrong about that. Is it safe to say then, that Jewish religion is also a copy-cat, a cheaper re-hash, of its predecessor?

Originally posted by ThinkingHuman

Originally posted by MuzzleBreak
Jewish literature makes it plain that Jews are not Israelites.

Clearly, you have a lot more knowledge about this than I do. Thanks for sharing this.

Can you say what is the difference between Jew and Israelite and why this is significant?

I can, but it would behoove you to Google the subject. Many pages of well researched and documented history are available on the net.

The OP brings up a salient point.

The Old testament and New Testament conflict with each other. They are not compatible and never will be, as the foundation for both cannot be true;

Old testament; the Jews are gods chosen people

New testament: only through Jesus can our souls be saved.

So, are Jews that do not accept Jesus lost, because the new testament clearly states only through Jesus is your soul saved, yet the Old testament is clear they are Gods chosen people.
What about people that lived without ever hearing of the Bible, are they lost, or are they judged with alternate scale of justice, and if so then the statement that only through Jesus can one reach heaven is false.

The basic framework of the Bible begins to splinter as soon as hard questions are asked.

reply to post by JackMack


The Old Testament and the New Testament have the same God.

The Jews just haven't recognized Jesus yet as their same God who also came in the flesh.

That day is scheduled for a later date.

Originally posted by JackMack

The OP brings up a salient point.

The Old testament and New Testament conflict with each other. They are not compatible and never will be, as the foundation for both cannot be true;

Old testament; the Jews are gods chosen people

New testament: only through Jesus can our souls be saved.

So, are Jews that do not accept Jesus lost, because the new testament clearly states only through Jesus is your soul saved, yet the Old testament is clear they are Gods chosen people.
What about people that lived without ever hearing of the Bible, are they lost, or are they judged with alternate scale of justice, and if so then the statement that only through Jesus can one reach heaven is false.

The basic framework of the Bible begins to splinter as soon as hard questions are asked.

It is incorrect to refer to the Israelites of the OT as Jews. Judaism as a religion (what Christ called the Tradition of the Elders) was a very legalistic system that had been developed by Rabbis towards the end of the Babylonian Captivity. Similarly, Judea as a province for returning Judahites and Benjaminites did not exist till Cyrus the Great conquered Babylon and returned them to Jerusalem.

Originally posted by AshleyD

 

There was one final thing I wanted to mention but forgot it already since starting this post. lol Sorry if I misunderstood something you were asking or for whatever I missed.

Thanks for your help. In my experience, threads in the Religion arena are more exploratory than specific. I am not a theologian but I am trying to figure out what drove people 2000 years ago to create new religions, especially the Christian one.

I believe that a lot of “information” we take for granted may not be accurate.

Originally posted by JackMack

 

The basic framework of the Bible begins to splinter as soon as hard questions are asked.

Maybe that is why the Bible tells you that you cannot rely on your understanding, and that you are not supposed to question your master.

The OP is correct. The physical nation of Israel is not the fulfillment of prophecy, and the Jewish people have not been the chosen people of God for a loooong time. You cannot claim to be the chosen people of God while openly denying His Son at the same time.

Romans 9:6-8(AKJV)
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Acts 13:46(AKJV)
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Even Jesus, Himself, told them that they would eventually lose their status as the chosen people:

Matthew 21:43(AKJV)
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Most Christians nowadays are tricked into believing that they need to support the actual physical nation of Israel, when in fact, they are modern-day Israel. Anybody who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Anybody who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour are Israel. This is one of the main reasons people need to open their Bibles and read them for themselves instead of trusting somebody else's opinion wholeheartedly.

There are some people who are totally, honestly sincere, and God does accept their sincerity and He winks at their ignorance. However, when they learn the truth, they need to repent of what they used to think was true.

Listening to somebody who preaches with the intention of getting as much tax-free money as they can from their flock is not the way God intended for us to learn about Him and His Son. We are to read for ourselves, to study and meditate upon His Word. It's sad to see so many people are so gung-ho about defending the nation of Israel, all because they have no idea what their Bibles say. Satan is laughing in their faces, and they are clueless. While true prophecy is being fulfilled left and right around the world, millions and millions of people are watching the Middle East, waiting for those same prophecies to be fulfilled.

Jesus never taught this ... he was for Jew or gentile.

A lot of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches goes directly against what Jesus taught when you read the Gnostic scriptures.

I go through all of this in depth in my book; this is a subject I'm very passionate about.

It's not something that is very easy to answer quickly because it takes a bit of explaining misconceptions and lies that have been taught for hundreds of years.

It's especially difficult to explain to people who haven't read anything other than the Bible, the books selected in the bible were chosen because that's all the King could afford to write and that became "canon" but that doesn't mean it was the entire story.

As for why Christians believe that... well it's pretty simple isn't it? you already stated it in your original post... it was founded, written and stars those of Jewish descent, ...

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by JackMack

 

The Old Testament and the New Testament have the same God.

The Jews just haven't recognized Jesus yet as their same God who also came in the flesh.

That day is scheduled for a later date.

That day will never come, dear one. The Great Tribulation has already taken place; it ended in 1798 A.D. There will be no rapture of the church, then a 7 year tribulation. Antichrist has been in power for thousands of years. The Two Witnesses prophecy has already been fulfilled, the sun has already turned black, the moon to red, the stars have fallen from heaven, and a great earthquake happened before all that. Most of the prophecies most people are waiting for, have already happened.

Soon, Satan will manifest himself as Jesus, and the world will believe it is the second coming of Christ, when He told us Himself that if anybody says He is here or there, to never believe them. Satan has set up false prophecies around the world such as the nation of Israel coming to fruition, and various others, just to fool the majority into believing true prophecy is being fulfilled, when in fact it is not. They would know this, if only they would open their Bibles.

reply to post by ThinkingHuman


In Him the distinctions between Jew and Gentile, slave and free man, male and female, disappear; you are all one in Christ Jesus.Galatians 3:28

Abraham, one of the greatest men to have walked earth was a Hebrew, not Jewish. Abraham came from a Gentile family, and was serving God before he was circumcised. We are all children of Abraham As Paul wrote:

[Abraham] received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised. – Romans 4:11-12 (see the surrounding discussion as well)

So, I believe in our Father as we are all children of God.

Originally posted by jeramie

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by JackMack

 

The Old Testament and the New Testament have the same God.

The Jews just haven't recognized Jesus yet as their same God who also came in the flesh.

That day is scheduled for a later date.

That day will never come, dear one. The Great Tribulation has already taken place; it ended in 1798 A.D. There will be no rapture of the church, then a 7 year tribulation. Antichrist has been in power for thousands of years. The Two Witnesses prophecy has already been fulfilled, the sun has already turned black, the moon to red, the stars have fallen from heaven, and a great earthquake happened before all that. Most of the prophecies most people are waiting for, have already happened.

I've heard alot of things in my day, but what you just posted is baffling to hear. I'd like to know where you got this information. Sources please.

reply to post by jeramie

Most Christians nowadays are tricked into believing that they need to support the actual physical nation of Israel, when in fact, they are modern-day Israel. Anybody who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Anybody who accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour are Israel. This is one of the main reasons people need to open their Bibles and read them for themselves instead of trusting somebody else's opinion wholeheartedly.

Correct. Stars for you..

Also, an understanding of a bit of history from Cyrus to Alexander the Great, to the Maccabees and the forced conversion of the descendants of Esau, to the Roman conquest and installation of the Herodians as Governors/tax-collectors would help. But that is probably asking too much for most people to suffer.

reply to post by jeramie


Actually, the physical location of Israel is still real in prophecy.

Jesus will cut off two thirds of the nation and preserve a third of them who will follow him into the Millennial reign period based on prophecies.

Jesus is still going to fulfill his promises to Abraham to prove who he is during that future period.

reply to post by jeramie


Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


www.stepstolife.org...

Not sure if he sourced dates from there. I would too love to see the source of this.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

A lot of what the Roman Catholic Church teaches goes directly against what Jesus taught when you read the Gnostic scriptures.

The Gnostics were nothing more than the New Agers of today. Always trying to mix pagan worship traditions with Christianity to create a mixed religion based on mystical experiences brought on by fallen angels and demon contact.

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

www.stepstolife.org...

Not sure if he sourced it from there.

Ok, that's a pretty long article. I'll check it out later though. Do you agree those days have come and gone already?