Judge allows Yoga in Public schools, rejects Church-State Fight

Judge allows Yoga in Public schools, rejects Church-State Fight

www.foxnews.com

A judge ruled Monday that a public school district can teach yoga, siding with administrators who argued the practice is a secular way to promote strength, flexibility and balance and rejecting pleas of parents who said the classes are inherently religious and violate the constitutional principle of separating church and state.

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At first sight this looked like good news to me. I practice Yoga and I believe that it can be very, very, very beneficial to school-children for both mental and physical strength.

But looking at the details of this ruling, there are two things wrong with it: First of all, the claim that Yoga is not religious is complete hogwash. Its something that the secular part of society is making up and being dishonest about to justify the use of something as beneficial as Yoga. Yoga is deeply religious. It is a Hindu practice and its aims are religious as well.

Secondly, it being religious, allowing Yoga violates the separation of church and state. If Yoga is allowed, praying in school should also be allowed.

My guess is that whoever is in charge of Academia cant get themselves to admit that something religious might be beneficial for the kids so they have to pretend that it is not religious. Otherwise Christians and Muslims could request that prayers not be banned from school.

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reply to post by Skyfloating

Yoga is deeply religious. It is a Hindu practice and its aims are religious as well.

Don't agree. You can maybe label it that way..because the practice has roots in "other" religions. But the practice itself does not need to have any religious connotations within. It is practiced all over the world by peoples of different races, and religions. It has become a somewhat universal exercise tool.

Since you practiced it...I'm sure you know...that it's about getting some exercise...relaxing the body, quieting the mind...and mostly today...people do it to counter work related stress. I see nothing religious about it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I understand Yoga's roots are in religion but can it not be separated successfully?

I have never been "Stretchy" enough myself to indulge in it personally

You're being completely illogical, yoga is not comparable to what you're comparing it to, people practice it for physical benefits. Yoga does not hinder logical thought and learning and it doesn't have to have any link to religion at all, it doesn't conflict with any life views either. Other activities, such as praying, are illogical, non beneficial, directly connected to a religion and conflict with people's life views. Yoga is fine in schools, making kids pray is pointless and will only hinder them.

Well to say "prayer should be allowed in school" is incorrect. Prayer is not banned in school, students can pray but it just can't be sanctioned by the school. Yoga should be allowed, its just shouldn't be a school activity.
I can kind of see all sides of this.
First the atheists groups that would normally fight this will probably not make much fuss as they only seem to raise a stink when its christians doing things like saying "god bless you" after someone sneezes (oh noes they is trying to convert me!). For some reason they think religion only means the ones based off the Abrahamic religions.

To say yoga is not religious is just stupid, it would be like saying prayer is not religious if you called it happy time and did it silent.

I kind of see it as disrespectful though, they are preverting a religious practice for...lets face it, its just a bunch of fat teachers that thought up a great plan to do yoga while getting paid by us.

But the Christians have gotten away by pulling similar crap. Many schools offer a class teaching the bible "as literature" so its "not religious". Those clases are often offered as an elective and they are filled with christian kids and taught by some strict christian teacher and they get CRAZY pissed when you make jokes in that class.

Plus we are having a problem with kids being porkers because their parents are retarded and feed them crap all day. Many fat women have convinced themselves that yoga helps them lose weight because they see hot chicks do it. Yoga will not help shed pounds, hot chicks do it because they look hot doing it and the only reason it works for some fat chicks because time spent doing yoga is just time not spent eating. It just really has no place in school. Fat kids that are lagging behind in science and math world wide are not going to benefit by doing yoga.

reply to post by Superhans


Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

reply to post by Skyfloating


If yoga is religious, then so is meditation. Better stop those kids from quietly concentrating.

I get where you are coming from, but there's a stark difference. You can practice yoga postures without any of the religious connotations. You can learn karate techniques without taking it on as the religion it is.

You can't pray without religious connotation. Simple as that.

Personally, as a non religious person, as long as the institution isn't favoring one over the other, I've never ever had a problem with religion in school, to an extent.Once you start trying to enforce religious ideas or laws (Christian, Muslim or Jew) then you've gone over the edge.

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by Superhans

 

Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

lol no,
That is the same as making kids "not pray" and by "not pray" i mean sit in the prayer position and talk about things they want and don't have. See! no forcing a religion "down your throat" just the practices- totally different thing...

reply to post by Superhans

First the atheists groups that would normally fight this will probably not make much fuss as they only seem to raise a stink when its christians doing things like saying "god bless you" after someone sneezes (oh noes they is trying to convert me!). For some reason they think religion only means the ones based off the Abrahamic religions.

Well seeing as I don't believe in the christian, or any organized religions "god" I get lumped into being an atheist. I'd just like to thank you for generalizing people like you did in that well thought out post.

Religion is anything relating to "god" a "creator". I say god bless you, well mostly bless you but I do say it. I like 99% of those you'd be calling an atheist, have no problem with your, or anyones religion, UNTIL the government, or departments there in, start promoting it.

Kids can pray in school, regardless of religion. But once your friendly principle comes on the intercom to "lead the school in prayer" you've got something completely different. And, I have a pretty good feeling, you already know this. That's why your childish smear was slipped in via a joke.

If you want your child to come to class dressed to the nines in religious garb, flailing around one of those blessed incense dealies they use for exorcisms, fine. That's awesome. Until the school promotes it. The school has no right to tell your child they can't pray, just as the school has no right to force my child to pray.

If yoga is strictly religious, so is mediation and basically everything else.

You know what, instead of explaining this point again, I suggest all of you who claim yoga is mostly religious, go ahead, as your yoga friends about it.

I'm sure a handful will toss out "india" and might even know some of it. The majority though, they want tight buns, so they do the low impact stretching and exercise that makes up most of yoga.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by Superhans

 

Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

lol no,
That is the same as making kids "not pray" and by "not pray" i mean sit in the prayer position and talk about things they want and don't have. See! no forcing a religion "down your throat" just the practices- totally different thing...

I don't know what you're talking about. The whole concept of praying requires the premise that there is a (Christian) God and is therefore directly tied to a religion, yoga has absolutely no religious ties, it's a physical exercise and neither teaches or conflicts with any views, it doesn't matter that is has religious roots.

reply to post by Superhans


I think that stretching your body...learning to breathe, to relax both mentally and physically...and watching women in tights (God bless them)...does not have anything to do with religion...and why would you ever want to be against it? which part of Yoga practice is or can be offensive to any person or religion ? The benefits are purely concerning your health...no mental indoctrination necessary to indulge in it.

If you have some examples to counter...I'd like to hear them.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

yup, pretty clear where you stopped reading in my post. So im not going to bother to read yours

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by Superhans

 

Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

lol no,
That is the same as making kids "not pray" and by "not pray" i mean sit in the prayer position and talk about things they want and don't have. See! no forcing a religion "down your throat" just the practices- totally different thing...

I don't know what you're talking about. The whole concept of praying requires the premise that there is a (Christian) God and is therefore directly tied to a religion, yoga has absolutely no religious ties, it's a physical exercise.

See, you have a reading issue. I said make kids "not pray" which is not religious at all, its just the religious practice without all the indoctrination.

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by SpearMint

Originally posted by Superhans

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by Superhans

 

Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

lol no,
That is the same as making kids "not pray" and by "not pray" i mean sit in the prayer position and talk about things they want and don't have. See! no forcing a religion "down your throat" just the practices- totally different thing...

I don't know what you're talking about. The whole concept of praying requires the premise that there is a (Christian) God and is therefore directly tied to a religion, yoga has absolutely no religious ties, it's a physical exercise.

See, you have a reading issue. I said make kids "not pray" which is not religious at all, its just the religious practice without all the indoctrination.

Let's not resort to petty insults, you are not communicating your point effectively. I'm still not completely sure what it is. Are you saying that praying can just be a practice without indoctrination? In which case, it most certainly can't. Like I said before, it relies entirely on the premise that there is a God.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

At first sight this looked like good news to me. I practice Yoga and I believe that it can be very, very, very beneficial to school-children for both mental and physical strength.

But looking at the details of this ruling, there are two things wrong with it: First of all, the claim that Yoga is not religious is complete hogwash. Its something that the secular part of society is making up and being dishonest about to justify the use of something as beneficial as Yoga. Yoga is deeply religious. It is a Hindu practice and its aims are religious as well.

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

edit on 2-7-2013 by Skyfloating because: (no reason given)

And Buddhist and Sikh practice it too, just like meditation, Its aim is entirely going to be what the individual wants it to be. Ie could simply be used as an exercise. There is a big big difference between practicing yoga in its self and practicing the philosophical beliefs that may or may accompany it.

I said make kids "not pray" which is not religious at all, its just the religious practice without all the indoctrination.

Do you mean prevent kids from praying? Or make kids do the ritual of praying ie putting your hands together with out the philosophical and thought process that accompanies it?

If the first, I believe prevention of freedom of religion is definitely a no. If the latter its a pretty pointless exercise, that said amusing the position of praying, with out actually trying to communicate with a god, is not preying forcing some one to do this would just be weird.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Yoga is not religious at all, is basically a muscular and mental relaxation routine that can indeed induce trance like states (or meditative if you like) that can if so guided or in the right setting have religious meaning and be a religious experience of sort it all depends on the baggage that people add to it or impose on it.

Now having said that historically there are indeed parallels with some religions (and mostly by cultural geographic relation) it can be Hindu or Buddhism but more Zen like (others too), to a point that it can itself be better classified as a philosophy.

In any case Yoga is a practice a methodology not a religious rite, doctrine and can (and should) be done without any underling dogmas. If done right it is part of other hypnotic phenomena that only subliminally have any connection with faith...

Most of the attempts to practice Yoga (I never attempted to learn, that is to memorize the steps and positions) resulted in me falling asleep due to the calm and relaxation it induces. I also note that I did practice it in a Buddhist temple but the religion was not part of the classes, except maybe superficially in some of the terminology for the mental states and expectations.

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by Superhans

 

Atheist groups (as you call them, I'm not aware of them) won't care about yoga for the reasons I listed above. It doesn't have to have any religious connections at all, and it's actually beneficial. It usually isn't practiced in a way that has anything to do with religion and the activity itself doesn't shove any religious views down your throat.

Well you haven't created a list of criteria on a thing being religious or not. What you have done is water down the definition of yoga to a point to make it less susceptible to the harsh criteria that you yourself enjoy when talking about other religions.

The fact is these seemingly religious neutral Yoga fundamentals do stem from a main stream and old religion.....Om is the word.

Well according to the bible the body is a temple. So if you aren't are a "recognized" christian, your pretty much worshiping a false idol/god by performing yoga? Really? That is the only reason I can think of for a church organization to not like yoga.

Lets ban food that is good for the body, and ban exercising also. Unless you have been "saved". Then you are okay in God's eyes. But meditation (which is the EXACT same thing as prayer ) is unholy and evil.

Ah religion. Placing limits on free will since its creation.

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Superhans

 

I think that stretching your body...learning to breathe, to relax both mentally and physically...and watching women in tights (God bless them)...does not have anything to do with religion...and why would you ever want to be against it? which part of Yoga practice is or can be offensive to any person or religion ? The benefits are purely concerning your health...no mental indoctrination necessary to indulge in it.

If you have some examples to counter...I'd like to hear them.

Well the moment you teach a kid in Yoga class what the "thunderbolt" position is you will have indeed engaged in religious indoctrination.