milky way may have 60 BILLION habitable worlds

Originally posted by reject
That's twice that has bitten my behind. UGH...That's a copy & paste typo. I've been asking the mods to correct my OP for me. They haven't gotten around to it yet

MODS, A LITTLE HELP HERE PLEASE.

I posted an alert for you -- when you need moderator assistance, either post an alert or go to the home page, find a moderator who is online (their names are in bold) and send them a PM. Just posting in the thread is unlikely to result in a fix because not every thread is read by a moderator.

On topic, what this brings to mind is the likelihood that life is incredibly rare. With this many inhabitable planets, the Drake Equation calculates 72,800 current alien civilizations that can communicate via radio waves. SETI has found zero. So where are they?

Personally, I'm with Enrico Fermi on this one. We can't find them because they are not there.

Look at our current state. We are scared s#itless. We hide in our homes, we arm ourselfs and freak out at the smallest disturbance. Orson Welles for example. He did that raido show, and EVERYONE started to freak out.
Its a complete mob mentality here, one person freaks out then two, the eight so on and so forth.

If I were to look at earth from an outside standpoint with no emmotion and studied the earth for years, here is what I would see in my opinion.

1) We fcuking love war. We love it so much that we do it at the peril of others that are innocent.

2) We are scared. So much so that we build underground tunnels to live in and store food like a bunch of crazy horders. We arm ourslelves as well.

3) We are paranoid as well. So much so that we use the guns on a regular basis.

4) We are greedy. I would see poor people in shacks , and rich people in houses twelve times too big for them. Houses so big that we could put some of those families that are living in those shacks, comfortably.
I would see people with five cars, and other poor people who have to walk everyday. I would see a throw away culture of decadence that would make we sick. I would see walking billboards, and s#hit factories that indulge in every whim they could think of then smear that s#it in the face of the poor.

5) We dont care about our environment. We pollute our air, sea and earth as well as other people.

6) We dont care about anything! We are globalizing our weapons to hurt more than just the people close to us , we want to hurt people in other countries as well.



Those are just a few things just living here I notice. I bet if a space ship landed right now on someones lawn, it would be shot at or even down, then surrounded by the military. People would start to riot there would be civil unrest and looting. We are just looking for a reason to destroy things.

So I wouldnt stop on earth to take a piss.

To put this into perspective, if this number turns out to be true than each person on Earth could have around 8.5 planets all to themselves to live on.

reply to post by adjensen


maybe they opted for cable and/or satellite communications

Maybe we can't recognize their signal at all. Maybe they are drowned out or distorted on their way here somehow.

With these latest numbers the odds are ridiculously overwhelming they are there.

anyway, thanks for the assist

IMHO, there're too many UFO sightings to shrug them off or to make a bandaid explanation. You can say it's all made up or erroneous or fanciful, but reality has a way of doing its own thing.

My opinion is that the "aliens", if they have indeed visited, are not in a hurry to throw themselves on us and have open contact. Why? Because they respect our right to self-ownership and want us to learn lessons mostly on our own. It's the same reason we often let nature do its thing. The only reason I could see "aliens" throwing themselves on us is if they live on earth too. If htey had something to lose on earth and the choices that humans made mattered to them then they'd have a reason to openly contact us. Otherwise, they'll keep their distance and respect our identity.

"Keeping their distance" does not mean completely avoiding us.

But if UFOs really are "alien" and have visited, why don't governments release the evidence that should surely prove their presence? Well, that's a question that has many answers. Some will tell you the governments of the world have already come clean. Others say they haven't.

For the most part, this whole ufo thing is a waste of time. What will happen will happen. We should just live our lives and keep discovering and building up our civilization. Nonetheless people will chase ghosts and run their meter down until they've exhausted their lives and realized it was a waste. It reminds me of that Rod Stewart song where he says "I wish I knew then what I know now."

Don't suddenly wake up 40 years from now and wonder why you wasted precious moments of your life. It's easy to make regrets, but it's hard to cope with them later on.

It's all about how others will see you after you die. Was your life well lived?

As soon as we find intelligent life on earth, we can then assume there might be some intelligent life elsewhere...

Or, to quote Arthur C. Clarke:

"It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value."

reply to post by reject


It is indeed very interesting, even if you reduce your 5% to 0.05%, its will still be a massive ammount

But lets take it further, watch this simulation af the universe with millions of galaxies, and then take another 0.05% of them capable of making intergalactic travels - no wonder we see weird things in the sky.
Every little light in the video represent an entire galaxy - very interesting.

Nice.. We all have to realize our universe is 4d imagine a balloon that can forever inflate! we are at a part of the balloon that has just began to take shape. Where all the elements needed for life are at. Bc we all know by now the beginning universe was just hydrogen which created the rest and most important elements ( carbon, ie proteins life!)and since the universe is expanding as time goes on(the 4th deminsion) the center won't hold life!! We are just now in the cusp of the universe that is capable of producing life. In my opinion I believe we are the first but that's neither here nor there. Again great post ^_^

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
reply to post by reject

 

If Humans advanced enough to the point of space flight how long will it takes before we export 'democracy' to these worlds just to take their resources.

PAHAHAH, excellent comment, maybe those spreading democracy on earth now are controlled by the evil ET reptiles

Our not so distant ancestors began and left their lives in much the same way ,having seen small progress from cradle to grave, and living in an age when it was possible to know a fair chunk of all there really was to know at the time within their communities.

It has only been the last few centuries on Earth were human development has expanded exponentially. By the time the first children of the 20th Century were born change was already common place. But by the time they left this planet their world, and our world, was probably beyond the comprehension of their great grandfathers. We as individuals can never get close to understanding all there is to know any longer. But we have the internet.

People of the past may have dreamed of communications with anyone on the planet, capturing the moment in a picture instantaneously, creating moving pictures, flying in aircraft, travelling into space, curing disease and all forms of entertainment we now know and take for granted. Others had more destructive tendencies and their needs are served too. This is our modern world. The future is still unwritten.

It may seem like we live in days where "super science mingles with the bright stuff of dreams". Where we are destined to eventually end our wars on Terra (pun totally intended) and explore and colonise (eerrrr hmmm - bring democracy) to the galaxy.

Of course the story is different, because every technological leap we make brings it's own problems. We may stop disease but then the population grows causing a drain on resources. We can split the atom for energy but it can also bring about our annihilation.

Despite some claims that we are a war like race, primitive and dangerous to the rest of the galaxy this is a simplistic view. Humanity is also very altruistic and we could not have this far without a good side to us. Life seems to be a constant battle no matter how much we advance. I guess that's probably true out there in the universe too.

We could be totally alone as the only intelligent species that can travel into space. Perhaps many species have never reached close to and just beyond our current level and destroyed themselves. Maybe some have gone way beyond it and are long gone. Our paths may never cross with an alien intelligence.

Of course it's also possible we are quarantined from the galactic community for any number of reasons and this is why we never pick up intelligent signals from elsewhere and that some UFO stories really are visits from out there.

Maybe in the not too distant future we'll even be told we aren't alone in the universe.

No we cant find them because they are so advanced their technology is undetectable to us..yet. WOw..we have only been really technologically advanced for less than 100 YEARS..we really think we're the big kids on the block? Thats laughable. Unless they also happened to birth a marconi on their planet..we should not assume they ever developed radio technology. Of course they might have..but I suggest we're really barely starting to evolve technology wise..

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by reject
That's twice that has bitten my behind. UGH...That's a copy & paste typo. I've been asking the mods to correct my OP for me. They haven't gotten around to it yet

MODS, A LITTLE HELP HERE PLEASE.

I posted an alert for you -- when you need moderator assistance, either post an alert or go to the home page, find a moderator who is online (their names are in bold) and send them a PM. Just posting in the thread is unlikely to result in a fix because not every thread is read by a moderator.

On topic, what this brings to mind is the likelihood that life is incredibly rare. With this many inhabitable planets, the Drake Equation calculates 72,800 current alien civilizations that can communicate via radio waves. SETI has found zero. So where are they?

Personally, I'm with Enrico Fermi on this one. We can't find them because they are not there.

reply to post by reject



Imagine this: The universe is said to be roughly 14 billion years old. It is highly likely that any intelligence we ran into would more likely be a million years ahead of us technologically than just a few hundred years. Think about what a difference a few hundred years of technology would represent for our future... A million years advanced totally boggles my mind *poof*.

We would be viewed in the same light as humans view ants or bees, rather than a "brother/sister intelligent lifeform"..

They would have the power to harness the energy of a star or more for their use much as we have used coal. And I am not talking about fusion energy...I am talking about harnessing whole star's energies.

To consider what their technologies would be like would be impossible for us at this stage. They would be as Gods.....

Originally posted by mirageman
Our not so distant ancestors began and left their lives in much the same way ,having seen small progress from cradle to grave, and living in an age when it was possible to know a fair chunk of all there really was to know at the time within their communities.

It has only been the last few centuries on Earth were human development has expanded exponentially. By the time the first children of the 20th Century were born change was already common place. But by the time they left this planet their world, and our world, was probably beyond the comprehension of their great grandfathers. We as individuals can never get close to understanding all there is to know any longer. But we have the internet.

People of the past may have dreamed of communications with anyone on the planet, capturing the moment in a picture instantaneously, creating moving pictures, flying in aircraft, travelling into space, curing disease and all forms of entertainment we now know and take for granted. Others had more destructive tendencies and their needs are served too. This is our modern world. The future is still unwritten.

It may seem like we live in days where "super science mingles with the bright stuff of dreams". Where we are destined to eventually end our wars on Terra (pun totally intended) and explore and colonise (eerrrr hmmm - bring democracy) to the galaxy.

Of course the story is different, because every technological leap we make brings it's own problems. We may stop disease but then the population grows causing a drain on resources. We can split the atom for energy but it can also bring about our annihilation.

Despite some claims that we are a war like race, primitive and dangerous to the rest of the galaxy this is a simplistic view. Humanity is also very altruistic and we could not have this far without a good side to us. Life seems to be a constant battle no matter how much we advance. I guess that's probably true out there in the universe too.

We could be totally alone as the only intelligent species that can travel into space. Perhaps many species have never reached close to and just beyond our current level and destroyed themselves. Maybe some have gone way beyond it and are long gone. Our paths may never cross with an alien intelligence.

Of course it's also possible we are quarantined from the galactic community for any number of reasons and this is why we never pick up intelligent signals from elsewhere and that some UFO stories really are visits from out there.

Maybe in the not too distant future we'll even be told we aren't alone in the universe.

Well said!

There is a dangerous idea that could explain why we have not found signs of life.....

Perhaps life elsewhere evolves much as it has here, in terms of technology and science.
Perhaps many civilizations have annihilated themselves during the atomic age.
Perhaps those who made it past that stage and entered the "information" age merely turned inwards and ceased looking outwards as they found entertainment irresistible. (Consider how often you see a group of people all occupied on their smart phones accompanied by a complete lack of personal communication) Take our current situation and project forwards....could we be headed towards a people staying at home, never leaving and are just "plugged" into the future internet? Consider how radio is almost obsolete at this point in time and broadcast TV is virtually obsolete also.

All the above does not even begin to include the natural disasters that could wipe out life on a planet. I imagine the closer to the center of the galaxy a planet is, the more likely some gamma ray burst, asteroid or comet strike or merely a gravitational disturbance that would affect the planet's orbit thereby destroying the chances of an intelligent species from developing to the star travel stage.

Originally posted by undo

They must have a bigger understanding of what It takes to survive in the cosmos, and they can see we don't have what it takes yet.

oh nonsense.

if we could colonize other worlds, there would be no need for the infighting and struggle over resources. keeping us confined here with our myriad viewpoints and belief systems, is like stuffing animals on a farm with a fence and dwindling food and water, while thru the woods, there's a whole new field loaded with resources. the farmer knows the other field is there but doesn't want his animals to get lost and eaten by a predator other than him.

solution: we just don't get lost. he could help us out you know, by giving us a map of the grazing lands (other inhabitable worlds) with info on which might be hostile and etc.

The only problem with this thinking is that in the distant past, there were still battles even though resources were available in most of the world that was not inhabited by humans....we, as a species, tend to have the blinders on. If we started mining the asteroid belt I am sure there would be conflicts regarding rights and claims and what not.

It seems to be in our nature to engage in conflicts. Will we ever outgrow that nature? I would like to think we eventually will, but who really knows?

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
Life evolving on a planet around a red dwarf would likely be quite different to life on Earth - different light, radiation, etc.

Although there has been life on Earth for ~3,000,000,000 years, there has only been life capable of very limited space travel for 50 years. Extrapolate that out, and whilst life may be common in the galaxy, spacefaring civiisations are still likely to be comparatively rare. We may even be the first. There is currently no evidence that interstellar travelling life has ever existed. For 2,999,999,950 years that life existed on Earth, it was incapable of even getting a man into orbit ......

So...how old is our world? Are there worlds out there twice the age? Consider a world that has supported life for 9 billion years vs our 3. Consider the technology of a civilization that has had space travel for a paltry 1 million years....

In terms of space faring technology, we are at the far, far left of the spectrum, just barely past the fire-starter stage... while millions or billions of years are to our potential future, to the right end of the scale.

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Redarguo

 

the distances between star systems are so great, that even if you could master interstellar travel, the time it takes would make such pointless.

Perhaps not , it is theoretically possible to warp space time using an Alcubierre warp drive which it is believed would allow travel at up to 10 times the speed of light , there are people working on the idea right now and while its still theory for us it may be reality for others out there

An Alcubierre warp drive would involve a football-shape spacecraft attached to a large ring encircling it. This ring, potentially made of exotic matter, would cause space-time to warp around the starship, creating a region of contracted space in front of it and expanded space behind.

Meanwhile, the starship itself would stay inside a bubble of flat space-time that wasn't being warped at all. "Everything within space is restricted by the speed of light," explained Richard Obousy, president of Icarus Interstellar, a non-profit group of scientists and engineers devoted to pursuing interstellar spaceflight. "But the really cool thing is space-time, the fabric of space, is not limited by the speed of light." With this concept, the spacecraft would be able to achieve an effective speed of about 10 times the speed of light, all without breaking the cosmic speed limit.
www.space.com...

Science fiction may one day become science fact .

Personally I believe the limitation of the speed of light is fictitious at best. If the speed of light is constant, then why is there red and blue shift of light colors depending on whether the source is, relatively speaking, moving towards us or away from us? Lots of theories, but none satisfy...I asked that question of my son-in-law who graduated Suma Cum Laude with a Masters in Physics and Math and the explanation I got involved the difference between Einstein's Theory and quantam physics...and the explanation was suspiciously close to admitting the color shift of light suggests that the speed of light is not always constant.

10,000,000,000 +/-(est. of course) different life forms have lived on earth.
1 life form has developed/evolved to be highly intelligent.
= 0.00000001% - Percentage of life forms that have ever existed on Earth that are intelligent enough to think and eventually venture beyond it's own planet.

See a trend there? Using Earth as our example, 99.99999999% of life on a given planet will have zero interest, or ability to visit other planets. Also, as someone already mentioned, the time that intelligent species rise to high and superior intelligence, it increasingly has overcome and survive possible extinction via: Meteor strike, Nuclear destruction by their own hand, Disease, Famine, or other mass calamities.

Most habitable planets will have basic life. But, there's no reason in nature for an oddball species such as humans to develop. We're a freak of nature. In 4.6 billion years, and 10 billion different types of life forms, we're the only one that has had any interest beyond our own survival. We're a tiny percentage, in a tiny frame of time on this planet.

I'm not saying there aren't any superior intelligent beings out there. There's been nothing to show with certainty there is, but there could be. But not in the numbers people think.

Originally posted by Junkheap
To put this into perspective, if this number turns out to be true than each person on Earth could have around 8.5 planets all to themselves to live on.

edit on 3-7-2013 by Junkheap because: (no reason given)

I only need a city for my falmily.

reply to post by bbracken677


Yeah im not really sure either, I think that its is to do with increase and the decrease of wave lengths, like a police siren will sound different in pitch as it approaches and as it moves further away,

doppler effect

I'm not even sure if light speed was ever an absolute, it was just you can't accelerate an object with mass to light speed ie, an object gains mass as it increases speed. At light speed it gains infinite mass and would require infinite energy propelling it or something.

Then you have the issue that the photons speed and distance traveled is relative to the observer (according to the theory) time stops at light speed, therefore from the photons perspective there is no time difference from going from point a to b, its simultaneous, and no distance is actually traveled, only to an observer has it traveled from point a to b.

That said Einstein had a theory on space-time that at some fundamental level of reality all points in space and time are linked, but my knowledge is only curiosity on this subject and have no real understanding of physics. I think the problem with most theories is they can only truly be expressed in math and something is lost in the translation to language.

I think the concept is way too wide about habitable worlds and see some major problems for us.

How would we fare were there no moon to regulate the world the way it does on the earth? Our seas would be stagnant and pollution would quickly kill us off. Without the tides we would never have the ecology we need to survive.

There has been a lot of speculation about the moon, how old it is and some even claim it clanks when hit and is a satelite deliberately placed where it is. Who knows the truth?

If we were by some means able to get ourselves onto another planet, how would time be measured there, could we adapt to a different time scale with our current bodies? Nutrition would be another huge challenge for us. Some people who emigrate to a completely different continent find that within a couple of generations their digestive tracts simply have so much trouble adapting to a different diet that they become ill and move back to wherever they started out from. Obviously many adapt but its not a simple thing to change diet on this planet, I would wonder how it would be on another millions of light years away.

These are tiny points in the vast habitable worlds supposedly available but, also would we really be doing much of a favour when we clearly can't seem to manage ourselves on this planet in a way we should be proud of. And what if the occupants of another world were wondering whether to arrive here? I actually would be terrified if 'someone dropped in' because we have a nasty exploitative section of society here - but at least they don't use us as a food source (I hope) but what about someone from elsewhere.