Edward Snowden said What about the NSA?

To be unwilling and subservient or worse than that a shill for these criminals...

You are right. They should spy on you. You my friend a scarier than any Terrorist.

What a piece of poorly constructed propoganda.

Guess what, your thread isnt enlightning either, it's the same old BS being spewed by the MSM on any given day.




Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by flyswatter


It's pretty obvious what the complaint is. Snooping on American citizens. Plus, repeatedly lying about it by the obama admin. Did that really need clarified?

I wish people would be more consistent all i hear is 'NSA spying' yadda yadda yadda

Nothing about stuff like this:

Think NSA Spying Is Bad? Here Comes ObamaCare Hub

Link
And this:

articles.washingtonpost.com...

And THIS:

Judicial Watch: FOIA release shows CFPB conducting “warrantless surveillance” on consumers

hotair.com...


Those 3 alone eclipse NSA because they are all DOMESTIC spying in multiple areas.

ETA: oh and the DOJ spying.

Originally posted by TheMistro81
reply to post by flyswatter

 

It's pretty obvious what the complaint is. Snooping on American citizens. Plus, repeatedly lying about it by the obama admin. Did that really need clarified?

Right, but that is not the only thing that the guy leaked. Along with the information about the in-country snooping, he leaked other information about overseas activities that were not at all illegal, information that was classified and not meant to be in the hands of a foreign power.

The OP has more sense than 90% of ATSers banging the privacy drum, possibly combined

Its nice to see common sense slowly filtering back into peoples heads after being subjected to the laughable MSN cover story for Snowdens betrayal

Even Snowden's dad has said his son was exploited by Wikileaks... after Russia & China got what they wanted of course, Snowden is an absolute buffoon

And whats even more of a joke is the Conspiracy theorist for once are in line and agreeing with the MSN's BS cover story because it backs there anti west NWO agenda, now where does that make sense? what? dog chasing its tail springs to mind

reply to post by TritonTaranis

there anti west NWO agenda

Have many preconceived notions about people?

Do not pigeon hole people who value their privacy as Conspiracy Theorists.

We call it being American.

reply to post by Rocker2013


That's a good point, America has done a lot of bad things, and allows its corporations and politicians to continue doing bad things, in order to keep this up, it needs surveillance, drones, hit squads, etc. or else it would be held accountable.

Originally posted by TritonTaranis
The OP has more sense than 90% of ATSers banging the privacy drum, possibly combined

Its nice to see common sense slowly filtering back into peoples heads after being subjected to the laughable MSN cover story for Snowdens betrayal

Even Snowden's dad has said his son was exploited by Wikileaks... after Russia & China got what they wanted of course, Snowden is an absolute buffoon

And whats even more of a joke is the Conspiracy theorist for once are in line and agreeing with the MSN's BS cover story because it backs there anti west NWO agenda, now where does that make sense? what? dog chasing its tail springs to mind

edit on 28-6-2013 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

Well said; Instead of making the Snowden case into an earth shattering revelation, which it is not, people should
look at what has actually transpired. Snowden has not released [as far as the public knows] any more information about government than what is already believed and may often be true. Somethings never change; Government can be too big, intrusive and can be dangerous and we should be aware of it and I believe most intelligent people already are. As I said earlier, file a tax return recently?, do they really need all that information about you? And how long has this been going on? Same with applications for any college or job. Both government and industry wants all the info it can gather whether it needs it or not. This 'the age of intelligence gathering'. But the NSA [and other government spy groups] are different you say; They are a part of a 'grand conspiracy' to steal your civil liberties and your rights they would have you believe. Hopefully they are wrong because if they are right the game is over - you already have no rights and the NSA listening to your phone calls won't make any difference. But if you are wrong and this surveillance prevents terrorists from achieving their objective which you can be sure will steal all of your rights including "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness"
then pray to God [if you believe in one] that the NSA does a better job in the future and stops the next 911 before it begins. And don't worry if they hear you cheating on your wife over the phone - they don't care.
But I will agree that NO government agency should be above the law, and national security or not they should have to answer to and show responsibility to the peiople - they too should be monitored! Even the NSA has to
answer to "We the people".

Originally posted by AlienView
reply to post by tridentblue

 

Did you watch the 911 bombing on TV? The Boston Marathon Bombing? How many more? Should we give up and
let the terrorists have their way? Do you think they will protect your civil liberties?

I don't think they will, but if we give all our civil liberties up in the pursuit of protecting them, what is the point?

reply to post by AlienView

Shouldn't this be in the Rant forum?

Comments like this show that the terroists have won.


Even though lighting kills more in the west in terroisms shows that they have succeded in scareing us into giving up the freedoms we valued and go around scared of our next door neigbours

reply to post by burdman30ott6

Me, I've never met one of these "terrorist" or "mad bombers."

So what? Do you believe they don't exist? One is in jail right now. You think he is innocent?
There are people who want to attack the United States. Ignoring this fact is simply naive.

I agree that we have other things to worry about but don't belittle the fact that people died and were maimed by this asshole. America has enemies, we want our treasure aimed at stopping these threats. They are not boogeymen, they are real. The problem is keeping the Powers That Be focused on these "people", rather than the People. Just because you haven't met them is irrelevant. A major terrorist attack is what got me laid off from my job of 15 years. These types of attacks affect far more than those injured or killed.

Variable

For the sake of argument let me agree that the NSA has abused its mandate and has been listening to more that it should - this is possible and should be corrected. But all this screaming about the loss of civil liberties because of this is not yet, and hopefully never will be, true. There is a big difference between listening in on a phone conversation and stealing your rights for what you said in the conversation. It can be a Fourth Amendment issue but is still not an attempt to deliberately steal civil liberties - That is the new Right Wing paranoia which used to be the old Left Wing paranoia - and probably had more validity when it came from the left - but paranoia is always logical no matter where it comes from and is a self-defeating attitude.

Here is a new quote:
"Those who are so paranoid about losing freedom that 'looking at them the wrong way' is perceived as a threat, are already slaves to their delusional thinking and would not know, nor will ever have freedom or liberty."
-AlienView

reply to post by AlienView


but what if (hypothetically speaking of course) the same government that is spying on you is also controlling, funding and training the very terrorists that you are worried about, the very terrorists that they are supposedly protecting you from by spying on you?? But I'm sure something like that could never happen here in America... right?

reply to post by flyswatter


To me, we should be more concerned with the illegAl things our government is doing... and hold them accountable. As far as thongs being brought into the open that foreign countries shouldn't know due to being clarified... I don't see anything that is that bad that snowden brought into the open. Or did I miss something?

Personally, I'm more concerned that our government is bringing more havoc than any secret that snowden could have leaked to foreign countries. I see snowden leaking these thongs as good for our country so maybe, just maybe some chance can occur.

So what did snowden do to deserve treason charges?

Originally posted by tridentblue
reply to post by AlienView

 

I want you to google two things. The first is:
Tsarnaev
The second is:
Tsar Bomba
The first will bring you to links of a man who made a bomb out of a pressure cooker, killing 4 people. He represents the threats of the modern times our security apparatus is fighting against. The second will being you to links of a Soviet hydrogen bomb so powerful, the shockwave from it circled the world 3 times. This represents the threat out security apparatus was up against 50 years ago.
The difference? 50 years ago, our government could not possibly tap or record the phone calls of all Americans to find KGB spies. The technology simply wasn't there yet. Yet they didn't need to in order to overcome the threat of Tsar Bomba. But 50 years later, they can, and claim they need this power, to overcome the threat of tsarnaev.

The issue is, they will ALWAYS do everything they can, and it has nothing to do with the threat profile they are up against, its always turned up to 11. The difference is technology keeps handing them more and more power to spy deeper and deeper, even with a threat profile that's less and less deadly.

That's what Snowden called the "architecture of oppression.", its a system which is getting more and more power over us to protect us from less and less dangerous threats.

I totaly agree with you.
you say it best.

Originally posted by Variable
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

Me, I've never met one of these "terrorist" or "mad bombers."

So what? Do you believe they don't exist? One is in jail right now. You think he is innocent?
There are people who want to attack the United States.

Oh no, I know they exist. I also know there are people who want to attack the US. My main problem is the ones I see attacking the US the most these days are called "President", "Senator", "Congressman", or can directly credit one of the above for having their job of attacking the US. I'm just not sure I'm comfortable seeing Freddie Kruger "defend" the teenagers from Jason Voorhees... seems likely that whoever wins that fight is still a pretty huge threat to public safety.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by AlienView

 

but what if (hypothetically speaking of course) the same government that is spying on you is also controlling, funding and training the very terrorists that you are worried about, the very terrorists that they are supposedly protecting you from by spying on you?? But I'm sure something like that could never happen here in America... right?

Hypothetically speaking? Sure this is possible. But then you have nothing to worry about the game is over. Go out and party while you can. And don't let them know that you are a complainer as you will be put on a list and first chance they get you will be fried! See where I'm going with this; I love good conspiracy theories, spent years reading books on the subject and used to love hearing the late [killed in a shoot-out with police] William "Bill" Cooper ranting and raving on international shortwave radio about the government racketeers who are all working tor the Freemasons and he dated the conspiracy back to Ancient Egypt! Fascinating stuff. Is it possible that this is true? Or that David Icke is correct and it is all controlled by Reptilian bankers controlled by Rothchild Zionists? The problem with all these conspiracies [there are many more] is that bits and pieces of evidence are put together to prove their hypothesis but no proof exists. Oh, and don't forget about the very contemporary Alex Jones who like Bill Cooper says the're all racketeers but it is the Bildebergers, not the Masons, who are the Boogeymen. But then after you read all this you have to think maybe the conspiracies are partly true and we just need a grand conspiracy to sum it up. Forget it - if they are true we're all doomed anyway and your best bet is to play dumb and go about your life in blissful ignorance. But you see something else is also possible. Maybe these conspiracies are nothing more than clever delusions. Maybe, just maybe, people who work for government are acting in good faith and with goodwill but are simply overreaching in their objectives. Maybe the NSA really believes in the US and the US Constitution and is simply acting with too much ambition [bureaucrats like anyone else can be overly ambitions]; Maybe, just maybe, Al Quida is real, really hate Americana and wants to destroy the Republic of the Uniited States and all of Western Civilization. But of course maybe you are right and I'm being delusional for excepting events without seeing conspiracies behind all events..

Originally posted by TheMistro81
reply to post by flyswatter

 

To me, we should be more concerned with the illegAl things our government is doing... and hold them accountable. As far as thongs being brought into the open that foreign countries shouldn't know due to being clarified... I don't see anything that is that bad that snowden brought into the open. Or did I miss something?

Personally, I'm more concerned that our government is bringing more havoc than any secret that snowden could have leaked to foreign countries. I see snowden leaking these thongs as good for our country so maybe, just maybe some chance can occur.

So what did snowden do to deserve treason charges?

We should be concerned with both. Our government should be held accountable, just as Snowden should be.

As far as the treason charge goes ... thats a bit of a rough one. He absolutely did break the law, but like many say out there (including many law professors), I cant really say that his intention was to assist an enemy or foreign power. That being the case, treason might be stretching it a bit. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that the actual charge of treason will go away in the long term, but he'll still be stuck with lesser charges.