Pre-existence, Reincarnation & Christianity

Originally posted by windword

Is a shiny, brand new, innocent soul created every time a woman's egg is fertilized?

1 subjectively feels the SOUL/SPIRIT/Internal ENERGY of CREATOR Creations pre-exist before being guided-directed into the/biological environment suit/body...

Originally posted by windword
If so, doesn't that make the soul a biological manifestation? How then can one justify the belief that the soul doesn't die, but the body does?

This is an interesting subjective view as well.

Originally posted by windword

If the soul is a biological manifestation, why the concept of rewards and punishments in the afterlife? But if the soul pre-existed before the body existed, would the actions of that soul, prior to it's earthly incarnation dictate the circumstances of that body?

To 1 this is how a soul/spirit/internal energy learns from experiences... Are the worst of worst experienced remembered or just the lesson subconsciously uploaded into next, environment suit. 1 ask are the memories remembered or intentionally "wiped" to allow the new try but @ the same time the LESSON is subconsciously attached to the next experience as to assist in NOT making same mistakes continuously... like subconscious/metaphysical Spiritual training wheels designed from past lessons in the phases of life and death within existence...

Originally posted by windword

When Jesus promised eternal life, was he speaking of a universal truth, or some magical, spiritual life giving spell, that only Jesus can impart? If Jesus was correct, and all the "born again" are bestowed with eternal life, and are free as the wind, is it possible that those souls could choose to reincarnate in a new earthly body?

To 1 LORD JESUS CHRIST was alerting some of perhaps more they could fathom of afterlife. And perhaps the data the had the tried to PREVENT others SOULS from going to places where the had access to. And so the warns and shares with many to gain integrity in spirit as to strengthen many for potential experiences they may encounter during the life and death phases within existence... Is it a choice or ARE you placed into new environment suit or reincarnate. Hmm perhaps its based on how you conduct yourself around others and the actions placed upon others -/+ actions, determine neither realm worker or ... sky WATCHER

Now who the choice making guides or overseers are of the perhaps are will based...

LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA*******

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Well if you don't believe Paul your free to do so. But Jesus taught the same thing.

No im afraid he didn't teach the same thing... not even close actually...

but again this is not the topic at hand...

I have a bunch of threads on Paul and this is not the place for that argument...

Destroy's threads ye know...

Btw is your cherry picking inferring that I don't have "the holy spirit"?

Ye know All are born of spirit and flesh... right?

IF so... does that make you better then me?

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

All are born with flesh and a spirit, but not all are born with the Holy Spirit. You can only receive that gift if you have faith and belief in Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You've made it clear that you don't believe so the answer is no, you don't have the Holy Spirit.

Does it make me better than you? No. But it does make me smarter when it comes to spiritual understanding of the Bible.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

You've made it clear that you don't believe so the answer is no, you don't have the Holy Spirit.

Would you mind pointing out exactly where I said I don't believe in Jesus?

Thanks much...



"edit"
this will turn into a Jesus is God argument.... just watch...

reply to post by Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
This is one of the issues I see when discussing this subject...

Many think of it as a positive thing.... Its not... It basically means you failed... or at least haven't learned what was needed within the time you were given...

I would hate to be reborn again... I want to do it right this time around.... because I hate what this world is becoming... and has been for eons...

You have learned well…OBI WAN!


(saw your other comment, and couldn’t resist it)

To avoid being reborn again, you must become “born again”, which IMO has nothing to do with being physically reborn. It simply means to be born from above/God, through the Spirit.

I believe that Gnostic Christianity had it right. Salvation is found through uniting your spirit with God/Father (which is becoming “Born Again”). If you don’t achieve this in this life time, then you will go through the constant death and rebirth, here on Earth. Earth being a type of Hell and Fallen World.

I believe that reincarnation, and resurrection of the body, into a new life, can both co-exist. I think the early Church Fathers couldn’t understand how both could be true, and as so often happens, one was discarded (even though reincarnation, can be clearly found in the Bible) and the other was kept.


- JC

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

I know it's hard to accept these things when the Church has taken so much pain to conceal the esoteric teachings. My guess is that you also do not accept that Jesus could have traveled to the East and learned from the monks and adepts there.
I understand you are not ready to accept that, but you accept Jesus into your heart. Everyone is where they are on the Path to enlightenment.
it is an individual path,

EXACTLY!!!
Who are you, and what have you done with ThirdEyeofHorus, please?

Just kidding.
This is the second time in a week that I've TOTALLY appreciated an unexpected disclosure from you! We agree AGAIN!!

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

You've made it clear that you don't believe so the answer is no, you don't have the Holy Spirit.

Would you mind pointing out exactly where I said I don't believe in Jesus?

Thanks much...

"edit"
this will turn into a Jesus is God argument.... just watch...

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

I would disagree with that post you made because it is clear that Jesus was not referring to it in that fashion.

its clear according to Christianity... But since I am not Christian I don't have to agree with what that religion says about their book...

edit on 27-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

You do know what a Christian is don't you? Since you claim to not be a Christian it is impossible for you to believe in Jesus the way Jesus commanded.

I'm sure you believe he was a real person and taught a few things, but I highly doubt you believe his over all message.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


So Jesus Commanded his followers to accept a label... and anyone that does not accept that label couldn't possibly understand the bible... specifically his words

Is that what you're saying?

S/F, wind!!
I've read nearly all of it - interesting to see the crew responding in ways I'd not have expected.

You know my beliefs on the matter - Jesus taught it, he had learned it in the East after being recognized in the temple as a "gifted" soul -
he was an advanced soul, who came to teach - very possibly a reincarnation "himself" in that time and place, of who he'd been before (Krishna, Buddha, etc.) -
it's a universal message.

For each generation, each race, each geographical area, there's been a great teacher who reappears from time to time.
(Mohammed was, in my opinion, NOT one of those teachers. But possibly the Muslim guy who founded the Ba'hai faith was - he taught the same thing.)

Paul was CERTAINLY not; but it's possible modern people like MLK Jr, Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, and others (Karen Armstrong, even is a strong candidate), yet the hard-liner Christians reject them all.

As far as I'm concerned, NO ONE got "swept up to heaven" in a whirl-wind, or a 'cloud' or a 'bright light' or riding on a winged horse.....
Adam and Eve are metaphorical figures, and even Jesus himself has been "made legend". Was his message pure? Absolutely. But he's not alone in bringing that message. We ALL have the same capacity or potential as Jesus had - once we've advanced far enough here on "Planet School" . Just not that many choose to come back JUST TO TEACH.

SOME can recognize those who have. MOST cannot. The way is narrow.

I've thought long and hard about this concept. Even made an outline for a story about it -

A modern woman has a NDE after a horrible accident but gets "sent back" (didn't want to), crippled and in much pain, she is angry, and hires a litigation attorney to sue "God" for not letting her stay. Then she finds herself in an ethereal courtroom. There is a trial/hearing, where ALL of the souls who have been sent (and failed) to unite the entire world are in session with God, who wants someone to come and try again, and they're all saying "I'm not going back again. Nuh-uh!!" (With much hilarious interplay of blaming each other for doing dumb things like sending the flood and other ideas that backfired).

So, this "plaintiff" is told she can stay AFTER she goes back as the "next chosen messenger" sent by the Divine Source....and if she SUCCEEDS in uniting the world, she gets to stay. No more reincarnation.

Big job!

(COPYRIGHT wildtimes, 2013)

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

So Jesus Commanded his followers to accept a label... and no one that does not accept that label can possibly understand the bible... specifically his words

Is that what you're saying?

edit on 28-6-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

No He didn't and that's not what I'm saying.

Christian means one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you really believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ then whether you like it or not you are a Christian.

So the question is do you really believe in the teaching of Jesus Christ?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

By the way... that IS exactly what you just said...

:shk:

Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by windword

First off, in case you didn't catch the subtlety of my wording, by "former life" I meant when I was in High School, I studied Epicurus. I wasn't exactly claiming to be a reincarnated student of Epicurus.

Lol. Yeah, I got that.

Interesting. Do you think that the soul dies with the body? Do you think that these "free spirits" could have once been human, or do you think they are something else?

Yes, souls die.

The free spirits may once have been human. They may be immortal even. I'm not sure what things are general and what things are special about special people.

In the case of my spirit, she may have been a girl who died young. I have done duty as psychopomp for many people. I don't know if she took me to the girl in blue to serve as psychopomp many centuries ago, or took me to herself many centuries ago. But in any case, I stayed with her through beheading. So she wasn't alone. If that was her then maybe she appreciated it, what I did. I don't know.

Okay, but do you think that the soul dies with the body, or is it's life cycle separate from biology?

You seem to have "empath" talents.

I have also been in the (spiritual) company of people who were experiencing unspeakable suffering at the hands of others, and have been "dropped off" to experience with them, holding their spiritual hand, so to speak. When such injustice is too unbearable for one soul to take on, I believe some of us have pre-agreed to help take on part of that suffering too. Somehow, I feel that even then, we aren't alone, but are in the company of other empaths, and 10,000 angels dancing on the head of a pin.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

:shk:

Then you must be Jewish because that's what Jesus was. So then what would you call yourself?

Since your not Jesus himself you can only be a follower of his teachings. Even if you want to call yourself a disciple of Jesus that would still make you a Christian.

Acts 11:26
.the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Even Peter had no problem being recognized as a Christian. Are you better or smarter then he was?

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

So again, whether you like it or not you are a Christian if you believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The only way not be known as a Christian is to say you don't believe in his teachings.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Christian means one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you really believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ then whether you like it or not you are a Christian.

I know you asked Akragon, but may I give my answer to this suggestion? k thx, I will.

I thought that:
IF PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE the "RESURRECTION" story

- but instead believe that he RECOVERED from the crucifixion (which is a very real possibility, especially since he had Essene friends like Joe of A, and Nicodemus - who made a "secret deal" with Pilate
[like THAT ever happens - secret deals with the big Kahuna?? "No way!" ]
and administered medicines and salves and what-have-you seeing as they were the most adept physicians at the time),
and in conjunction with Jesus's mind-over-matter powers that allowed him to go into a state of suspended animation, he regrouped (so to speak), came out of the tomb, still with wounds, hungry, weak, thirsty - went to see his pals - and then took off BACK to India, where he lived out his life as a mystic, and eventually died in Kashmir - as a fugitive, wanted in Rome for execution -

- THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.

THAT is what I believe to have happened. AND I agree with his message.
So....
Am I actually a "Christian"? Well, I don't accept the Nicene Creed, or the resurrection, but, like Akragon, I think Jesus' message was true, and I DON'T ACCEPT the "taught religions" of "Christianity."

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

LOL

Define Christian for me... there are almost 40,000 different versions of it...

And Jesus wasn't "Christian" so why would I proclaim such a label?

:shk:

Then you must be Jewish because that's what Jesus was. So then what would you call yourself?

Since your not Jesus himself you can only be a follower of his teachings. Even if you want to call yourself a disciple of Jesus that would still make you a Christian.

Acts 11:26
.the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

Even Peter had no problem being recognized as a Christian. Are you better or smarter then he was?

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

So again, whether you like it or not you are a Christian if you believe and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

The only way not be known as a Christian is to say you don't believe in his teachings.

edit on 28-6-2013 by RealTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)

So I am confined to your definition of Christianity... or I am another label?

Yet somehow you don't even quote the gospels for proof of this... Nifty...

What would I call myself... Human?

I am what I am...

*sigh*

And you wonder why I don't call myself Christian...

Label me as you wish... I've taken on many... but accept none...

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

 

Christian means one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. If you really believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ then whether you like it or not you are a Christian.

I know you asked Akragon, but may I give my answer to this suggestion? k thx, I will.

I thought that:
IF PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE the "RESURRECTION" story

- but instead believe that he RECOVERED from the crucifixion (which is a very real possibility, especially since he had Essene friends like Joe of A, and Nicodemus - who made a "secret deal" with Pilate
[like THAT ever happens - secret deals with the big Kahuna??

"No way!" ;P ]
and administered medicines and salves and what-have-you
(seeins as they were the most adept physicians at the time),
and in conjunction with Jesus's mind-over-matter powers that allowed him to go into a state of suspended animation, he regrouped (so to speak), came out of the tomb, still with wounds, hungry, weak, thirsty - went to see his pals - and then took off BACK to India, where he lived out his life as a mystic, and eventually died in Kashmir - as a fugitive, wanted in Rome for execution -

- THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS.

THAT is what I believe to have happened. AND I agree with this message.
So....

Am I actually a "Christian"? Well, I don't accept the Nicene Creed, or the resurrection, but, like Akragon, I think Jesus' message was true, and I DON'T ACCEPT the "taught religions" of "Christianity."

I know the truth hurts. Bottom line is, if you believe his message was true and he said the things he said then and claim to follow his teachings then yes you are Christian.

you all seem to be following the righteous ways... and so hopefully the humbleness in your heart centers will allow the subjective data shared to compile a better picture to learn from..

NAMASTE*******
LOVE LIGHT ETERNIA

reply to post by dominicus

I wasn't a sinner when i pre-existed. But i do think sin is karma that ways us down and away from God and heaven.

You pre-existed? So you were there with God before creation? Blasphemy beyond anything i have ever heard, this one takes the cake. Christian my left foot. Scriptures establish that there is only one who ever pre-exists and that is Yeshua. You people all make yourselves out the be the One who Was and Is and Is to Come. I have heard enough of this foolishness.

Originally posted by wildtimes

You know my beliefs on the matter - Jesus taught it, he had learned it in the East after being recognized in the temple as a "gifted" soul -
he was an advanced soul, who came to teach - very possibly a reincarnation "himself" in that time and place, of who he'd been before (Krishna, Buddha, etc.) -
it's a universal message.

I agree. Jesus' message wasn't about some secret password for a magical spell of eternal life. His message is universal truth, that in my opinion, has been hijacked and corrupted, in an attempt to hide the simplicity of his message in a "whirlwind" storm of words and letters.

For each generation, each race, each geographical area, there's been a great teacher who reappears from time to time.
(Mohammed was, in my opinion, NOT one of those teachers. But possibly the Muslim guy who founded the Ba'hai faith was - he taught the same thing.)

I feel we live in time when there are many, many great teachers among us. They are everywhere, education, science and medicine, religious and political movements, and art and music. We are learning to united, but our collective "rebirth" is not without labor pains.

Paul was CERTAINLY not; but it's possible modern people like MLK Jr, Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, and others (Karen Armstrong, even is a strong candidate), yet the hard-liner Christians reject them all.

AMEN SISTER!

As far as I'm concerned, NO ONE got "swept up to heaven" in a whirl-wind, or a 'cloud' or a 'bright light' or riding on a winged horse.....
Adam and Eve are metaphorical figures, and even Jesus himself has been "made legend". Was his message pure? Absolutely. But he's not alone in bringing that message. We ALL have the same capacity or potential as Jesus had - once we've advanced far enough here on "Planet School" . Just not that many choose to come back JUST TO TEACH.

SOME can recognize those who have. MOST cannot. The way is narrow.

It's difficult for some to separate what is allegory, metaphor, historic, opinion or reality.

I've thought long and hard about this concept. Even made an outline for a story about it -

A modern woman has a NDE after a horrible accident but gets "sent back" (didn't want to), crippled and in much pain, she is angry, and hires a litigation attorney to sue "God" for not letting her stay. Then she finds herself in an ethereal courtroom. There is a trial/hearing, where ALL of the souls who have been sent (and failed) to unite the entire world are in session with God, who wants someone to come and try again, and they're all saying "I'm not going back again. Nuh-uh!!" (With much hilarious interplay of blaming each other for doing dumb things like sending the flood and other ideas that backfired).

So, this "plaintiff" is told she can stay AFTER she goes back as the "next chosen messenger" sent by the Divine Source....and if she SUCCEEDS in uniting the world, she gets to stay. No more reincarnation.

Big job!

(COPYRIGHT wildtimes, 2013)

I want in on that class action lawsuit!

Sounds like a great story. U2U me when you have it finished. I would love to read it!

reply to post by Murgatroid


The Bible is suspect as well, considering it was assembled from select books at the time, by the GOVERNMENT at that time.

Would you trust it if the US Government assembled various political teachings to the masses (Republican and Democratic Principles) and said pick these?

I think all writings at the time should be taken into consideration, not what they spoon fed us to know.

Any Government now or in the past is all about control and power. No different yesterday than today.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by dominicus

 

I wasn't a sinner when i pre-existed. But i do think sin is karma that ways us down and away from God and heaven.

You pre-existed? So you were there with God before creation? Blasphemy beyond anything i have ever heard, this one takes the cake. Christian my left foot. Scriptures establish that there is only one who ever pre-exists and that is Yeshua. You people all make yourselves out the be the One who Was and Is and Is to Come. I have heard enough of this foolishness.

edit on 28-6-2013 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

Really though... I didn't recognise your new colours...

How do you plan on getting to "heaven" if you haven't been there before?

Just wondering...