Transgender man in women's mma? Thoughts please.

I have personally met Fallon a few times and sat next to Shim at one of the Legacy Promotions that my buddy was the co-main event for in Allen Texas about 2-3 months back. Shim has a very nice rack and I did not know Shim was a transgender while I was talking to "her". I just thought Shim was an agressive chick because shim got into a verbal altercation with some of my friends a few rows up and the po po had to come and make the group leave.

I am not totally sure how I feel about a transgender fighting a female to be honest.. One side of me says no freaking way is that fair but another side of me says there needs to be rules in place to deal with these types of issues. The issue I have is... Are other buff men that can't make it as a male going to switch over to female just for an advantage... i know i know laugh all you want but think about it. How many athletes put tons of drugs into their body to have an advantage??? how many pro athletes pour every ounce of their being into what they do?? amost all of them do... so to think that a die hard athlete that wants to be at the top of their game might do something like this is not so far fetched.

What is important is to have rules in place to deal with the situation because transgender people are not going anywhere and with the popularity of MMA we are sure to see more come on the scene. They need to define what is allowed and what is not allowed so people are not in limbo. I personally can't wait to see shim get a fight with someone like cyborg or equivelant so we can see a girl kick a man's A$$. I saw shim fight a few times and it is only a matter of time before someone hands shim her butt.

reply to post by Maxatoria


I disagree with this statement..

I have only been training for a few years and strength does play an important role... Don't get me wrong I have had many of brown/black/purple belts sub me that are much smaller but I have also rolled with many of the same belts that could not submit me due to my strengh.

Strength is not the only element in fighting I do agree but once you lock up or hit the ground there is definiltey and advantage for the stronger person especially if they are on top.

Check out some of the fights where people who are not as good as their opponet are able to lay on them in side control and keep them down and win with ground and pound.

reply to post by Knives4eyes


You know, i didn't even think about their skin color when i thought of that.
Didn't mean to be racist, if that's how it was perceived.

sHe should have a complete bloodwork analysis done as well as body mass measured....whoever sHe more closely resembles male or female is who sHe should be fighting.

Some woman can seriously kick butt but it's not right for a woman to expect to go up against a woman and then get a man as an opponent. But if this guy now girl really is in every sense including hormones...all female than to put her in the ring with a guy is equally unfair.

I disagree with transgendered contestants in sports and beauty pageants unless it's on their own circuit like transgendered competitions.

To keep it brief, our biological and physiological make-up is much more than our genitals we can surgically manipulate or our hormones we can inject. Having a man-turned-woman compete against females puts other contestants at an unfair disadvantage. Their bones will be denser, their muscle fibers longer and stronger, their neurotransmitters quicker, etc. Stuff you cannot change with sexual-reassignment surgeries.

And general transgender is simply identifying as another sex- it doesn't even necessarily require one to undergo any physical changes. So that is an obvious unfair disadvantage in competition.

reply to post by AshleyD

Just tossing this out as a half baked idea, I don't have any opinion on it. Yank it if it's offensive.

What do we do about Blacks in the NBA, they have an unfair physical advantage. Should there be a Black NBA and a White NBA?

reply to post by charles1952
For just throwing that out here, you must have considered whether the race card should be played in this GENDER discussion. I think the NBA is fine the way it is as every player has a weakness waiting to be exploited by others. Even that tall Chinese player Yao Ming can play. He may be able to stand taller near the goal but he still needs to dribble and move with the ball or wait for passes and that's where others can stop him from being useful.

So yeah, this can be tossed out alright!

reply to post by charles1952


It isn't about black or white or blue.
It is about this individual growing up male

Thru puberty and beyond. Yes it definitely makes a difference .
I have nothing against transgendered individuals.

This is just wrong in that arena!
Peace
FreeFalling

reply to post by evc1shop

Dearevc1shop,

Actually, I certainly didn't intend to play the race card. Let me try it this way. If an identifiable group of people has a physical advantage in a competition, should that advantage be handicapped in some way? The OP was dealing with a man who entered the identifiable group of transgendered people. Many posters are saying that group of people should have different rules. (or even different leagues) Is this the only time when the handicapping system should apply?

Sorry for any offense, be sure that it was unintentional.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by turboneon


Yes if both opponents are exactly the same in all respects skill wise and the only difference is size then yes it matters. Two problems. If there was a difference in size then there would be a difference in skill sets as the two " fighters" would it move the same way to achieve victory. Second there are weight divisions. If they are in the same division the. The differences in size and mass are negligible to either fighter. Look at some point all mma fighters have to fight a person in their division that is slightly stronger. Are they supposed to blame their loss saying it was t fair the other fighter was marginally stronger. That's a cop out.

The way it's headed there is just going to be a Transgendered MMA league soon enough...

reply to post by DeadSnow


Woopty doo. Some people here are were "fighters". That means jack in the real world. Like I said mma is mma it's a sport. In the real world things are different and often counter intuitive. There are plenty of women who are not " fighters" and can kick many a guys ass in a combative altercation sometimes even mma guys. Being great at mma is just that being great at mma. It doesn't correlate as much as you think outside the ring.

reply to post by charles1952
I'm not offended by it, and I understand where you are coming from in a generalized sort of way. I was just thinking that we were about to head down a race path and diverge from the real issue at hand which is a gender issue. My wife is a law professor and she teaches "Race, Gender and the Law" at least once a year and people always try to draw parallels in her classes to race when they should be focusing on gender. There are similarities, I agree, but strictly in the context of the OP, I think the gender identification and differences are key.

Of course, your opinion is different and respected.

If these folks want to be "fighters" then they should welcome the challenge if going up against someone better or stronger.

reply to post by yourmaker
As long as they are allowed to play currently, you can bet more will come and then, yes, they may make a gender neutral class and then some divisions or whatever (I don't actually watch the stuff, sorry.) . It will probably fill the stands with a new crowd too

Oh this is so ridiculous, it's hilarious.

Here's the two things being considered: the political "right" of transgendered to be regarded as the sex they've switched to; the fact that biologically, physiologically, he is a MAN.

MMA is a physical sport. Anyone who knows anything about human physiology understands the athletic differences between men and women. Men, on average, jump higher, move quicker - both laterally and forward/back; they're faster at full speed; they're physically stronger, buttressed by a wider upper body, thinner waist - a ratio which conduces to physical mobility; they weigh more. When you put all these attributes together - lower body motility, upper body strength, athletic competition (especially of this sort) favors males.

In short, the superior physical abilities of a biologically male fighter gives him an unfair advantage over his female opponents. So here, the biological facts should outweigh concern for political fairness.

What matters here is fairness in the octagon. If other female fighter can't match a male fighters athletic prowess, than he/she should be disqualified from competing in female competition.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


If that were true, why isn't there parity between men and women in raw athletic competitions? The 100M, High Jump, Long Jump - ALL favor men in a completely unambiguous way.

NBA, NHL, MLB, NFL - all male leagues. The WNBA, a female's league, lags far far behind in attracting fans. Why? It could have to do with the 6'8 250 LB body of Lebron James, the 6'11 275 LB body of Dwight Howard (these being the athletic/physical extremes the NBA has to offer).

It should also be added that technically speaking, these leagues aren't gender specific. A woman could - if she were able - make on these teams. But it hasn't happened once for the simple fact that woman are smaller and less athletic than men. This is an indisputable fact. Hackneyed, actually.

I am a competitive martial artist. The tournaments I enter do not separate the gender. I mean men against women. Transgender. Who ever. No advantage from the gender at all.... well maybe some advantage to women with flexibility. Granted I am talking about weapons-based fighting. Escrima/Kali. Still it's full contact fighting. I've been beaten by women and I am pretty good

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Hmmmm...

There's no athletic difference between men and women? And if there is - its on the side of the women fighters?

What exactly are you analyzing here? What leads you to conclude that men - the bigger, faster, stronger of the sexes - is at a disadvantage in mixed martial art fighting?

Women - being smaller - indeed have the flexibility advantage (we see this in gymnasts, for example). But what is of greater advantage - flexibility, or strength - in a PHYSICAL CONTACT sport? Seriously. There's not a single aspect of athletic performance - vertical jump, lateral quickness, peak speed, weight lifted - that women are advantaged. These are tremendously crucial areas which the best fighters have an abundance of.

The only problem would be the men usually have more strength are naturally bigger and have larger muscles...more testosterone. That could be an unfair advantage. Not sure how you could even measure that? All things considered if a man and woman were same height and weight that man would generally be a little stronger.

Editing to add that even a small advantage can be huge in MMA.