Transgender man in women's mma? Thoughts please.

reply to post by DeadSnow
This is precisely why I mentioned in my previous post that there may need to be some sort of handicapping or class restrictions. I would expect that most men will not be changing to a woman just for the sake of fighting a woman and getting a win. Of course, besides the organizers of these events, the opponents should have some say in the matter.

The MMA is allowing this so why they don't seem to have an issue with it.

Is it because it makes for good ratings?
Do they just not want to be sued by the ACLU and rights organizations constantly?
Do they feel like they are making a difference in teaching tolerance to kids who may have considered growing up as bullies to those struggling with identity/gender issues?

Maybe its all of the above, maybe none and something entirely different. Either way, if the opponents are on-board with it and the person is a genuine Male identifying as Female who is on, and has had hormone therapy, there must be a fair way to say yes to them. There probably aren't and won't be enough of them to start an entire league and this is better than denying them a chance.

I do not think it will derail the sport but maybe all MTF's should be placed in the highest class/weight category or whatever the organization uses to define the heavyweights. There is most-likely a solution for almost everyone.

reply to post by turboneon


"she" should have the same rights as every other woman.
If they are allowed to fight men in mma, she should be allowed as well, if not - too bad he wanted to be a woman.

Maybe they should start up and transgendered MMA, it'd be uhh interesting to say the least.

But seriously, born a man should fight with men in MMA, thats how I feel about it.

I think it's unfair because he is naturally going to have a different muscle mass than a real woman.

Anyone who thinks they can win due to a bit of extra muscle and maybe a few inches extra height will soon get their butts kicked...its an advantage to a point but not much overall as you need the reflexes as MMA is not just a duke it out contest...the transgender person could be as strong as the hulk but if they can't hit you its a waste of effort

Originally posted by Maxatoria
Anyone who thinks they can win due to a bit of extra muscle and maybe a few inches extra height will soon get their butts kicked...its an advantage to a point but not much overall as you need the reflexes as MMA is not just a duke it out contest...the transgender person could be as strong as the hulk but if they can't hit you its a waste of effort

Can only run so far in a cage. I'd be more worried about being grabbed and taken to the ground. They do have classes for a reason, but I just don't see many (any?) Female super heavy weights. What do they go up to 145lb?

If two people are equally skilled then it comes down to brute strength.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
I think it's unfair because he is naturally going to have a different muscle mass than a real woman.

Not true. Hormone replacement therapy will give her a similar muscle mass as an ordinary women. However the skeletal structure will not change so that may be the unfair advantage.

What about a psychological advantage? Opponents may feel they are fighting a man? bring on unneeded concern?

reply to post by jrod


'Muscles grow and shrink, but Hormone will not directly shrink the muscles they already have.

If you purposely to cause muscle loss(cut out protein, and do cardio), than muscles will shrink, otherwise, the person would have higher(or same muscle) muscle mass.

And i doubt think any MMA fighter would purposely lose muscle mass.


Also remember, this is important, a male and female that look the same(height, weight, build) is not exactly the same, the male will still have higher strength(san diseases).

I agree with Rhonda.

Physiologically Fallon Fox completed puberty a male, like she said the bone density is different, which gives an edge.

Plus, regardless of loss of muscle tone after completing the transgender treatment, I still believe there is an edge, after all, the tone may be lost, but not the capacity to work it out back to that level.

As women have testosterone too, it would be interesting to know what level of the hormone Fox has, as there would be natural variance between females, providing her level isn't above the upper limit it should stop the advantage.

Then again, from my own experience if I don't work out, then I loose tone, but when I do, it all comes back, so a lot of what I amassed when younger still can be trained back into shape, which is why I think Fox may have an edge on muscle tone too.

Originally posted by DeadSnow
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

I don't know about you but I watch A LOT of MMA, and trust me...the women got nothing on the men. My comments are always in the best interest of the female gender.

I can't wait for body builders to change gender, or sprinters, power lifters...etc etc, let's see how fair it becomes in the long run.

^^This^^...There is no denying nature.

Not saying that there arent woman out there dont have extreme strength/ability comparable to a male and what not but they are a rare example. There is a reason why there are things like weight classes and gender specific sports...Its to keep things fair and safe. You would have to be blind to not see a difference in bone structure and muscle mass

Could you imagine if the olympics allowed cross gender participation in all the different sports? Wouldn't turn out to very fair in my opinion.You can see the difference just in the Records set in each sport between the Genders.

I think Joe Rogan explains it the best though and also given his experience with the MMA world I'd say he knows what hes talking about.

Originally posted by jrod

Originally posted by WaterBottle
I think it's unfair because he is naturally going to have a different muscle mass than a real woman.

Not true. Hormone replacement therapy will give her a similar muscle mass as an ordinary women. However the skeletal structure will not change so that may be the unfair advantage.

LOL, have you seen the guy and have you seen the other female fighters?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by jrod

 

'Muscles grow and shrink, but Hormone will not directly shrink the muscles they already have.

Not true. I am not going to research a source to back my claims up. They are out there.

When someone takes testosterone blocking hormones(or has the testicles removed) they will loose muscle mass, just like taking testosterone supplements(steroids) will enable someone to build muscle mass.

reply to post by jrod


Yes.. catabolic steroids... but why would anyone use that?...

Its like take a drug to weaken your bone.

*when i said hormones does not directly shrink, i meant, M to F hormones* i was not clear, sorry.

reply to post by DeadSnow


Yes any man, mixed martial artists included. Considering they are black belts or experts in many martial arts, and hold black belts in the krav maga class I'm in with them, they have the skills to take down the biggest. Size doesn't matter, nor does strength it's all about skill, leverage and well timed and placed strikes. Anyone can win or lose a fight I'm a skilled fighter and I've lost to women that weigh less than half what I do and over a foot shorter, they just managed to get the upper hand find an opening in my guard and exploit it like any good fighter does. Size, gender, sexual identity and age don't mean # in a fight all that matters is your knowledge and skills and your ability to put them to use.

Please forgive me if I chuckle a little bit. Oops, that last one slipped out.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen here, or heard in conversations, or seen policies to the effect of "Whatever they say their gender is, that's how we have to treat it. Locker rooms, bathrooms, dress codes, everything."

And how many times have I been told "You have to treat everyone equally, regardless of their sexual orientation?" The "T" in LGBTQ doesn't stand for "terrific."

Further, the Department of Defense is encouraging the SEALS, Delta Force, etc. to get women into their ranks and telling the services that they have to review their physical standards to see if they're "appropriate to the job." (Which means, of course lowering them.)

And now, people are saying that to let that person fight as a woman isn't fair? Handicaps have to be used?

They're aren't many victories in this mixed-up country, allow me to savor this one.

Evilkoncepts and maxatoria seem to know what they are talking about. Size means relatively little if someone knowes their s#*~$. The advantages this transgender has are minuscule to a professional fighter. I'm 230. I get rocked all the time by a training buddy who's only 145. He's just very good. As for the no woman can beat up an mma fighter that's ignorance. First of all stop thinking mma fighters are good at anything other than playing in the mma. The real world and mma fights don't exactly correlate like mma fan boys want to believe.

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Evilkoncepts and maxatoria seem to know what they are talking about. Size means relatively little if someone knowes their s#*~$. The advantages this transgender has are minuscule to a professional fighter. I'm 230. I get rocked all the time by a training buddy who's only 145. He's just very good. As for the no woman can beat up an mma fighter that's ignorance. First of all stop thinking mma fighters are good at anything other than playing in the mma. The real world and mma fights don't exactly correlate like mma fan boys want to believe.

Fan boys? yet you don't even know who we are...some of us are/used to be fighters.

Apologies for sidetracking, just had to put that out there. It gets on my nerves when certain people assume too much.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Would it matter if the opponents were equally skilled?
2nd

"She" may be a woman in her mind, but she has the body of a male. Men are naturally stronger then women. A man beating up a woman is nothing to be proud of. A gay man beating up a woman is nothing to be proud of. A man who wants to be a woman, beating up a woman is nothing to be proud of.