"I Am Sorry That It Has Come to This": A Soldier's Last Words

Let me make myself clear, if the Daniel that is presented in this thread really wrote that suicide letter than I wish his soul and his family nothing but the best. However, I don't believe that the suicide note is legit. I think someone else wrote it for whatever reason or agenda that they have. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by johncarter

 

They say - those who commit suicide blaming a single reason - are liars. There are many reasons for suicide - not just one. Someone who commits suicide has many problems other than where they ultimately place the blame.

That being said? Wake up. There’s no draft. What was going on in this guys head? ’Joining up’ for military service yet not being prepared to kill?

I applaud your sentiments OP - and peace to those who lost a friend/family member.

My opinion? If you can’t take the heat - don’t become a cook. Or something like that.

Edit to add:

Here's the point so many of you are failing to get.

How many wars do American's have to experience before they wake the hell up and STOP SIGNING UP!

The government is NOT going to take care of you when you’re through with your service. Not medically - Not psychologically!

You WILL (in many cases) be ordered to kill innocents. WAR is NOT a freaking video game!

No? Tell me a war when these atrocities have not been committed by military? Duh. Can you say Vietnam? Desert Storm? Etc?

Killing civilians. That’s the reality of war. And it’s no secret anymore - Period.

So - what happens? Do these people who sign up just get selective amnesia? ‘Oh, I’ll never be asked to shoot civilians!’ Idiots.

Do I respect the ‘little man’ in the military? Yes, I do. But not when he/she ruins the lives of their loved ones by killing themselves - like they didn’t know war was going to be hell. No no no no. There’s NO WAY people can pretend to be ignorant over the atrocities of war these days. Just no way.

Am I sorry for the guy? Guess what? No, I'm not. I'm sorry the family and friends he left behind.

peace

edit on 25-6-2013 by silo13 because: see above

I don't think you can even begin to understand what this guy has seen. You anti-sentiments mean nothing.
Absolutely nothing.

I'm pretty sure this guy signed up thinking he was going to defend his country not commit atrocities under orders.

After reading the title of this thread and many comments, I'm left with 2 things that won't go away.

1. Where is the mainstream media attention for this suicide, like there was when a nurse committed suicide because she was the victim of a prank call ? So if it's a war related suicide, then its 'nothing to see here'. But if its a prank call suicide then the whole world has to know to the point of saturation ?

2. I understand where people are coming from by saying you can't join the military and expect to not have to kill innocent people, but you also have to take into account why the military do the majority of their recruiting in cities/towns with high unemployment, and low education levels. This approach has been used by many militaries, across many countries, over many years. They prey on the desperate and those with low intelligence. We all know that the more money you have, the "better" education you receive. So the other side to that is, those with high unemployment are over time most likely to then be the same places with consistently low education levels. These places are then targeted by the military because of the desperation of being unemployed, and the lack of intelligence to know they are signing up with all possibility that they could be killing innocent people.



It's only ignorance if you first have the intelligence to know that something is wrong but still do it. If the intelligence isn't there to begin with, then isn't that manipulation from the military, rather than ignorance of the person enlisting ?

I'm not implying that every soldier is unintelligent, or joined because they were unemployed, but as a betting man I would take any odds that the majority todays foot soldiers have come from disadvantaged backgrounds, and the military is aware of this and target people like them.

The callous attitude toward human life displayed in this thread is astounding, disturbing, and profoundly disappointing. Guess it's OK so long as it isn't Americans getting killed by those evil foreigners!

Just wanted to add, there are Some who DO REFUSE to obey orders to commit war crimes,

Such as This Brave WOMAN

It is said she committed suicide after, I suspect, she was more than likely murdered...then again, Maybe this is also why there are so many Applauded Rapes of Women in the armed forces...to shut up any potential dissent from an industry gone mad, I wouldn't doubt it.

But, in case you didn't know, Some yes, have the GUTS TO SAY

NO

www.thenation.com...

Another woman as well Also said NO and flat said they were crossing the line, Violating the Geneva Convention.

So, to NOT Violate Conscience CAN BE DONE, you will pay, but You will at Least

SAVE YOUR SOUL. They are Military, They are NOT------GOD.

Maybe Americans need to REMEMBER THAT!!!

“Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy.” -- Henry Kissinger

War serves multiple purposes for the elites. The most beneficial to them are depopulation, acquisition of resources & geopolitical leverage.

We were all a baby at a point, we all have mothers and we all have fathers. We were given life and nurtured into adults.

We were told and shown by example, its wrong to hurt other people. It's wrong to kill people. No matter what kind of crappy life you've had, you know these things. It's built into your brain, hard wired. If you believe "God" did that or if you believe its evolution it's still the same.

This man didn't go on his first tour and give up on the first day. The situation these guys are in is completely foreign to what you're suppose to deal with.

If you're not fighting for something you believe in, you've already lost the fight - Litterbaux

Originally posted by ThreeBears
Just wanted to add, there are Some who DO REFUSE to obey orders to commit war crimes,

Such as This Brave WOMAN

It is said she committed suicide after, I suspect, she was more than likely murdered...then again, Maybe this is also why there are so many Applauded Rapes of Women in the armed forces...to shut up any potential dissent from an industry gone mad, I wouldn't doubt it.

But, in case you didn't know, Some yes, have the GUTS TO SAY

NO

www.thenation.com...

Another woman as well Also said NO and flat said they were crossing the line, Violating the Geneva Convention.

So, to NOT Violate Conscience CAN BE DONE, you will pay, but You will at Least

SAVE YOUR SOUL. They are Military, They are NOT------GOD.

Maybe Americans need to REMEMBER THAT!!!

I have a few simple problems with your post.

1st) Rape goes both ways in the Military. Men won't admit to being Raped by either a man or a women althought it does happen. Men as it is are the brunt of the perpetrators. Committing Rape, but Still It does go both ways.

2nd) It is a soldiers duty to refuse an order that is Illegal or unjust. It has happened and I've seen it happen. This is not some mythical unicorn. People who want to buy into War Crimes, Which do happen. They are happen, but the majority is never reported because it's in hand by the Military, USMCJ, look it up it will help those open minded enough to look.

3rd) The Geneva Convention doesn't not apply to country's that did night sign it. That is not to justify any crime committed while the united states has stated that it will treat every country they fight as if they signed it. Doesn't mean they have too, or will/can be held accountable for violating it for a none-signatory country.

There are many good men and women who serve and have served in our armed forces, the days of the unthinking killing machine that will "just fallowing orders" is gone. They want men and women who can think on their feet. That are smart, and have the presents of mind to judge a legal or illegal order.

Also, I will repeat what others have tried to state, yet where ignored. This isn't Vietnam we are not a draft military any more. People who can't hack it, do not get to say any more that they didn't know what they signed up for.

A soldiers first duty is to fallow All legal orders I'll say that again, so it can sink in Legal orders. A soldier has to be smart enough to distinguish between the two. The Soldier has a moral and legal obligation to refuse and ignore a unlawful order.

A soldier is required in all events in which a illegal or immoral order was giving to, walk it up the chain of command. If the chain of command will not help you, you go out side the chain of command. Especially any thing even remotely concerning a War Crime. That soldier, if he did not pick up is considered a accessory either willingly or through criminal negligence.

A soldier found to have concealed or engaged in a cover up, can and will face a court marshal. I have seen this process first hand, I've dealt with it.

I've seen and reported stupid people doing stupid things.

Two women, We were running a convoy security detail protecting their fuel unit. Faked a break down and robbed a Iraqi check point at gun point. They where found caught and charged.

I've seen the reverse as well, There are two guys I know, that did every thing right and by the book and still harmed innocents. A school bus, ran a check point they fallowed every procedure for escalation of force, and still ended up shooting up the buss and killing kids.

In a country in which people will strap kids with bombs and send them towards U.S troops, knowing that either way, they just screwed the person for life.

on the one hand, they will some times use a fake bomb, to make the soldier feel like a he just murdered a innocent child. Than, they would send one that had a real bomb, it was psychological as well as detrimental to the troops there.

While buses have been used as large born explosives before, this one did not and it was a unfortunate accident all around. These two guys paid twice over, once when they killed those kids, and again when they insurgents retaliated which resulted in the deaths of other troops from the same compound.

So how do you determine who is innocent, where the enemy doesn't wear a uniform? What happens when the enemy uses innocents to further their agenda.? Strapping a kid with a bomb who is the innocent there? It's sure as hell not the soldiers who's life was just either taken or ruined by the psychological impact of the act. Or is it the insurgents who use them at fault?

Hell, I've even seen a donkey bomb in my time. War crime, staged scan how do you tell the difference? Does the difference even matter at that point?

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by johncarter

 

They say - those who commit suicide blaming a single reason - are liars. There are many reasons for suicide - not just one. Someone who commits suicide has many problems other than where they ultimately place the blame.

That being said? Wake up. There’s no draft. What was going on in this guys head? ’Joining up’ for military service yet not being prepared to kill?

I applaud your sentiments OP - and peace to those who lost a friend/family member.

My opinion? If you can’t take the heat - don’t become a cook. Or something like that.

Edit to add:

Here's the point so many of you are failing to get.

How many wars do American's have to experience before they wake the hell up and STOP SIGNING UP!

The government is NOT going to take care of you when you’re through with your service. Not medically - Not psychologically!

You WILL (in many cases) be ordered to kill innocents. WAR is NOT a freaking video game!

No? Tell me a war when these atrocities have not been committed by military? Duh. Can you say Vietnam? Desert Storm? Etc?

Killing civilians. That’s the reality of war. And it’s no secret anymore - Period.

So - what happens? Do these people who sign up just get selective amnesia? ‘Oh, I’ll never be asked to shoot civilians!’ Idiots.

Do I respect the ‘little man’ in the military? Yes, I do. But not when he/she ruins the lives of their loved ones by killing themselves - like they didn’t know war was going to be hell. No no no no. There’s NO WAY people can pretend to be ignorant over the atrocities of war these days. Just no way.

Am I sorry for the guy? Guess what? No, I'm not. I'm sorry the family and friends he left behind.

peace

edit on 25-6-2013 by silo13 because: see above

Wow.. Perfectly put Silo. . Exactly how I would of put it if I did not see your post

It seems that with all these war movies, calll of duty, Halo, Battlefield, paintball, pellet guns, toy guns - all this is just programming the innocent and ignorant mind of young men and women to join and be in the "Big game" .. Its sad these people signing up for military cant see another shade of LIFE.

As you said, war is NO video game - there is no extra lives, no respawn, no rewind or pause.. Its one-shot-one-end-your-life REALITY. These kids signing up need to understand this. War is one of the oldest games humanity continues to play, but who is orchastrating these wars? Its the guys with the money.. Who has the money? The royals and elite bloodlines.

Decade after decade..century after century.. Millenia after millenia.. Will humanity ever get the point? War doesnt settle anything, especially when your warring with your OWN SPECIES. It deffeats the Ultimate purpose, to be a GREAT Civilization, which is a collective effort of ALL nations.

So another soldier cant handle the reality he signed up for and ended his life.. Seriously, its not a sad story. Whats sad is 30 million teenage kids worshiping Justin Beiber. Whats sad is 2 billion followers of the catholic church. What is ONE soldier compared to the masses being brainwashed.

No disrespect to this guy, sure he fought his battle, and THOUGHT he was fighting for America's "freedom" .. But he doesnt realize back home, America's freedom is being robbed while little "terrorist attacks" happen all over the Nation (Boston bombing, cinema shooting, sandy hook just to name a couple).

They send the troops away to a foreign country to resolve a problem THEY created - meanwhile training cops and security (police state/homeland security) to behave like military occupants over the citizens of their own Nation!

There is much more F'd up things going on then this soldier, that is the point that needs to be made clear, no one forced him to sign up to kill innocent people - he did that on his own freewill, when the REAL war is here, in North America, against its OWN people

oh well he rushed into a room gun blazing following orders regardless of what intel knew what was inside. who is to blame the limited technology or those In command? I almost wish the kid he mowed down was shooting him while hiding under a mattress while watching his mother an father shot down. so this soldier would not have these issues. so instead of having a suicidal solider living on the world we would have another Taliban trying to avenge their mother and fathers death years later.

I mean who is more right? oh you americans came here to kill for a job, maybe for some college funding in rotc...im killing you because you killed my parents and their parents. so you could take some oil and set up a mcdonalds

For one thing, Mr. Somer's suffered a traumatic brain injury that caused him to have flashbacks and hallucinations.

And? I know many who’ve suffered no brain injury that have traumatic PTSD, flashback and hallucinations. So?

Both are a result of WAR in the USA. You’d have to been born under a rock and stayed there not to know about the living casualties of war from Vietnam - Desert Storm and more ‘modern‘ conflicts with catchy names.

Secondly, you act like these young people have to have the "mind to be a killer". Or that it should be a prerequisite of joining the military.

You must have my posts confused with someone else's. I don’t want men and woman to have ‘minds of a killer’ - ever. I don’t even believe in kill’em up shoot ‘em up video games, lol.

What I want men and women to do is to stop relying on MSM and the State to tell you the ‘truth’ and if you’re going to take a step in life as important as joining the military during time of conflict to do a little research instead of drinking the Kool-Aid offered by the recruiting service.

And you do not feel sorry for them? Not even that they were ordered to kill innocent people?

Do because they were ‘ordered’ to kill innocents that makes it a must do have to do?
How about stand by your convictions and say no. Don’t do it.

Ok, so you’ll get court-martialed and a dishonorable discharge - but at least you’ll have a clean conscience and the blood of children scarring your soul forever.

Do I even pretend to say it’s easy or would be easy? NO! But a mature individual joining the US military in the time of conflict should have known - that gun they were going to be trained to use? Someday they would be ‘ordered’ to use it.

It's kill or be killed in the military.

Exactly. And he should have known that too.

He had no choice but to kill innocents

Fact is - He had a choice. He made it. He chose to kill innocents instead of laying his rifle down. He knew that. Believe me. He knew, and that’s probably the instigation for his suicide. He took the choice to kill instead of be ostracized, imprisoned, maybe killed himself. And yes, that makes me sick too - that anyone would be put in such a position.

Most civilians, and people going into the military, believe if soldiers have to kill.. it will be for a reason. Not mindless civilian massacres. They believe they will be shooting a bad guy, not unarmed children.

Ignorance of reality is no excuse.

Let me make it clear again. Nobody going into the military, knows how they will feel after killing someone. They will not know how they will feel after massacring women and children. You rack up dozens of innocents and you'd feel like S#!T too.

No one knows how they will feel - granted. But reality is - you’re in the military. You’re given a gun. You’re trained to use it. That you know nothing of America’s bloody past of killing innocents? Is that an excuse? I don’t think so.

Your logic of "There is no draft, they joined on their own behalf, they should know what they're getting into" is B.S.

If you’re going to invest your life in something - your very life - and you don’t do your research? Who’s fault is that? Not mine. Not yours. It’s the fault of the man. Period.

Your response and lack of empathy makes me sick.
Have some damn respect for these soldiers. They had the balls to join the service, and were witness or commanded against their will to do horrific things you wish were only a nightmare. Again, have some damn respect.

Well I’m sorry reality nauseates you. Reality is a bitter pill isn’t it.

This is a MAN who joined the military during conflicts and you’re going to whine ‘poor baby’ that he had to do something nasty in war time?
There’s no reality in that thinking - only corrupted broken logic as a result of being suckled at the breast of a Nanny State.

Do I have respect for men and women in the military? Of course I do. I’m outraged how soldiers are treated before, during and after their service. My God! Having to buy their own flack jackets? Virtually NO help afterwards for their physical mental and emotional state - the wreck they’re made from war? It’s beyond abominable.

But I will never use ignorance as an excuse for reality. Ignorance for truth. Is what happened to him a terrible thing - you bet. I would have had all the sympathy in the world had he chosen to stay and help himself, help others. I have zero sympathy for suicides who leave wives (or husbands) and family behind.

peace

reply to post by esteay812

Since this is something that has been going on for thousands of years, anyone considering a career in the military should realize no offensive force enters an area to combat enemy military forces on their own soil - they invade to beat the citizens into submission and subdue any shred of the enemy's defensive efforts.

With this being the case, anyone who wants to be a soldier should consider what type of military regime they are joining.

If the government's military branches have a history of invasion, but are rarely invaded, the prospective soldier should know that physical - often times fatal - offensive assaults on the enemy population should be expected. Unfortunately this is the brutal reality of war and the strategies of warfare that create war criminals and war heroes.

Most eloquently put. I appreciate your maturity of words and logic.

I’d like to repeat this.

With this being the case, anyone who wants to be a soldier should consider what type of military regime they are joining.

And I’ll add: If you’re going to put your life and the well-being of your family at risk? Know the REALITY of the situation before taking that risk.

peace

Silo13 and others with similar sentiments:

I don't think you fully understand what makes a person choose to sign up for service. While some certainly believe in defending their country et al, many have little choice BUT to do so rather than face a grim future as a poor citizen of this country.
The recession(which I believe is actually still in effect, just stalled) of 2008 had a major impact on the youth of that time. With college graduates taking jobs at McDonalds and other minimum wage jobs, what else could these kids do? Going to college is increasingly a rich kid's option, not the option available to the majority of our nation's children. Who provides for college? The military.
And thanks to the corporatist regime we live in, we're now seeing many factory level jobs requiring college degrees. There's so much wrong with the system now it's incredible we haven't imploded yet.
So what else can these kids do? There's no work for them. College costs too much. They certainly can't afford places of their own. Crime is on the grow as people get more and more desperate and the corporate prisons feed on that.
They have one shining option and that's the military and don't think the government doesn't exploit that and make it so. I'd be forced to do that myself if I was their age and in the position where I was in coming into adulthood.

I pray for the family of this fallen soldier. And pray more for those soldiers who remain out there.
This is indeed a very tragic story akin to the young girl in a famine who was eaten by vultures after going hungry for days on end.
It is very hard to take a judgmental eye on the soldier. Finite as we are, we are governed by emotions that could zap our reasoning.
As far as I can remember, when the Allies decided to fight against Germany it was not by choice but by default. Germany under a madman attacked.
I believe this brings to the fore a very complicated situation. America is also a very vulnerable target and it must do what it can to keep the “peace”.

reply to post by silo13

What I want men and women to do is to stop relying on MSM and the State to tell you the ‘truth’

Sadly this is not going to happen for any American anytime soon.

But a mature individual joining the US military in the time of conflict should have known - that gun they were going to be trained to use? Someday they would be ‘ordered’ to use it.

You seem to think that there are officers and NCO's ordering their privates to shoot civilians for no reason. Not only would someone most likely refuse such an unlawful order but the person ordering such a thing could very easily be prosecuted under UCMJ.. Allow me to share a personal story to maybe help you and others see more along the lines of what I believe he was getting at when he said, "killing innocents."

When I was stationed in the desert there was a checkpoint set up along a busy stretch of road close to base. One of the vehicles traveling through had a man and woman in it and was pulling up to close to the gate where three or four soldiers were letting vehicles through the gate one at a time. A recent rash of IED attacks at the time had everyone on edge. The car kept pulling slowly forward and the soldiers started to think maybe the guy was an insurgent and had a bomb in the car and they were about to get blown up. All four soldiers drew their rifles and pointed it at the car and yelled for the driver to stop. The car did'nt stop. The soldiers opened fire, killed the driver and wounded the woman sitting in the passengers seat. When the medics showed up and treated the woman one of the interpreters asked why the man did not stop approaching the gate when told to stop. She said that he had thought that the soldiers wanted him to pull up closer before he got out and that he was confused. I guess "stop" sounds alot like "pull up" in Farsi. That was back in the early days of the war when interpreters were kinda rare. An innocent man got killed all because of a stupid miscommunication.

That is just one example of many of how an innocent gets killed in a war zone. I could write a book with many more in it. And like I said, i've only been to two deployments. Some of these guys have been for 5-6 deployments to these places.

I left the service in 2005 and came home. I was a mess. I drank and abused drugs quite a bit. It was a very surreal feeling because I felt like I had changed but home did not. I kept ignoring my families requests that I try and get help because I kept telling myself that I was fine. Even though I knew I was not. I felt out of control.

One day I had decided that I was beyond fixing. I was ready to be done with this hell they call life. All I thought about over and over again was how I could not bear to leave my wife behind because of how upset she would be if I took my own life. It was really the only thing stopping me. So I thought that I would take her life too and then end mine to save her grief. I understood in that moment why people kill their whole families and then off themselves. It scared the hell out of me.

I ended up getting some help to get off the alcohol and drugs and get my mind in a better place. I am clinically diagnosed with PTSD. I go to group therapy sessions at the VA twice a month. I've been able to talk to and help a few young vets getting out of the service because (as your posts so clearly show) only someone who's been there can really relate. Nobody wants to really talk about the craziness and out of control feelings they have with someone who has no idea what war is. Thats why people that have been there never really talk about it except maybe to other veterans.

This man felt so pushed over the edge by the experiences he had on the battlefield that he took his own life. He chose a path I was ready to commit to myself not so long ago. How anyone can feel anything but empathy for the man is beyond me.

reply to post by johncarter


This isn't right. These wars are pointless. This man seemed very bright during his life. What a waste. This government's got some audacity to send these men to war and then deny them the treatment they so desperately need. We certainly make enough money selling drugs to other countries. But I guess it's too much to ask to give our vets proper psychological and medical care.

Very heart wrenching when reading this. Many soliders are used as killing tools in crazy and meaningless wars. This man was a true hero. God bless him.