Cummings: Full IRS interview shows White House didn’t direct tea party targeting

Originally posted by totallackey

Not that it really matters, (as it is just a big game) but I read your whole post and see absolutely nothing in it substantiating your statement that, "... Issa practically begged..."

For clarity..

Issa said in a letter to Cummings that such leaks could help future witnesses “devise testimony consistent with the narrative that previous witnesses presented to committee investigators.” But the chairman’s staff had already made some of the congressional interviews available to the media at that point.

Cummings argued in a letter to Issa on Thursday that the Republican’s disclosures posed “exactly the same risk.” He also challenged the chairman to identify and justify each line from Shafer’s interview that he wanted withheld. Issa had not responded by Tuesday.

LINK

Issa had been excerpting and leaking selected bits of testimony without context in a steady drip...all to fit his political agenda, smear Obama and hope the stench carries over to Dems in comming elections.

When both Republicans, Democrats and Reporters asked Issa for full transcripts, he refused.

When Cummings said he would release them...Issa tried to stop him...but the problem was that Issa had already been leaking BS excerpts...When cummings pointed this out..Issa failed to respond.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I'm not sure, in this Super-Partisan atmosphere in Washington, just what is the right answer to get a REAL investigation that may well clear as many as it indicts. Any honest investigation is likely to do just that, too.

I am not sure Special Prosecutor works either...Meh..I have my deep skepticism in gov. at times, but we should acknowledge the facts.

It was an IRS Watchdog org that alerted the FBI to the issue.

It was the FBI that opened the criminal probe.

It was the FBI that directed the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration to do a full investigation and audit.

Congress was made aware of the pending investigations...including Issa.

And none of this would have been made public if the IRS, the Treasury and the FBI hadn't uncovered it and announced it...themselves.

And thus far all the attempts to claim this as an "Obama" directive have shown to be corrupt spin.

So...not perfect, but hell, not bad for a non-partisan handling of an issue. Do you think other administrations would have scrambled, investigated and made such things public? It didn't turn into a political circus until Issa got involved.

reply to post by Indigo5


To answer your last point first? I think this likely has happened in other administrations and the fact we need speculate about that kinda proves your point...Although I don't credit Obama for it anymore than I blame him for what did happen.

I'd say we're getting a rare look into the place the Government is really run from. White House occupants direct the music but it's the players in the orchestra that make the tune. The two have only the most passing connection to each other directly, eh? Now lets see them get to firing some 'musicians'.

Obama probably earns his public slap on the wrist and he's getting it, with interest. Beyond that? Unless evidence shows otherwise...I think going for him personally is a witch hunt without logical basis and a very solid way for those 'musicians' to avoid all notice in the end. The Potomac Two-Step, as one movie famously put it. (Clear and Present Danger)

* I'd add here.... I'm taking each of these scandals one by one and on the merits of each, alone. Which is how I can call for heads on the Libya situation but largely...unless evidence shows otherwise...give Obama a pass on this one as an individual man. Some are lumping them all together like there is no distinction and that is where witch hunting becomes a sport and an ugly one at that, IMO.

Originally posted by rnaa

reply to post by Helious

 

It doesn't matter if Obama directed it or not, what matters is that it happened in the first place.

Let me get this straight just so I know we are on the same page.

You seem to be saying that

• it is wrong for the IRS to ensure that tax exempt status is only given to organizations that qualify for tax exempt status.
  
• when Congress passes a law that says "tax exempt" = "no political activity", they were just kidding
  
• Congress should pillory government agencies for obeying the law as Congress intended
  
• when less than one third of the applications that are reviewed closely are actually from conservative organizations, that conservative organizations are being targeted unfairly, disproportionately, and politically
  
• when the IRS official responsible for the checking is a 'conservative Republican' and two thirds of the 'targets' are not conservative organizations, it is the minority conservative organizations that are being treated unfairly
  
• when obviously political organizations, of any stripe, are attempting to steal from the American taxpayer by lying to the IRS about their purpose, that the IRS should just ignore it?
  
• you don't give a crap about what the law says, and nobody should be responsible for enforcing it?
  
• Congress doesn't give a crap about the laws it passes, and should rip to pieces the people it charges with enforcing those laws for the temerity to try to enforce those laws?
  

Is that about right?

Because those statement all follow from your post. The vetting of applications for tax-exempt status is NOT a political process. Congress set the rules and told the IRS to enforce them.

The fact is that there was NO targeting of conservative groups, only one third of the applications in question were from conservative groups.

The fact is that political organizations are NOT eligible for tax exempt status. If you give your organization a name that says 'we are a political organization', it is going to get looked at more closely.

It is the IRS' job to check these things. They shouldn't have to check them out so closely, but then organizations shouldn't be trying to scam the IRS so they can steal from the American people either.

Oh, now the IRS did NOTHING wrong, just doing their jobs eh? I guess the self admission of targeting specific groups, IRS officials pleading the fifth and congressional hearings being held for weeks on end were all done because absolutely nothing was done wrong.

Give me a break.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Indigo5

 

To answer your last point first? I think this likely has happened in other administrations and the fact we need speculate about that kinda proves your point...Although I don't credit Obama for it anymore than I blame him for what did happen.

I agree. This didn't land on his desk until most of the groundwork had been done and the reports issued.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'd say we're getting a rare look into the place the Government is really run from. White House occupants direct the music but it's the players in the orchestra that make the tune. The two have only the most passing connection to each other directly, eh? Now lets see them get to firing some 'musicians'.

Government needs a house cleaning, but the rub is that when it is done in a partisan manner..it furthers the mess.

I think there was a lot of frustration with Gov. during the last Bush Admin....and many took a partisan approach and thus thought electing a Democrat would "clean house" throughout gov at large...and what do we discover? The same mess throughout the ranks, with a different President. Now...if the far-right succeeds in it's attempt to blame President Obama for every eff-up in government...which deflects accountability from those that deserve it, then we will get a Conservative POTUS in a few years and continued partisanship shielding the gov at large...NSA, CIA, ATF, IRS from the objective, non-partisan scrutiny. How do we break that cycle?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Obama probably earns his public slap on the wrist and he's getting it, with interest. Beyond that? Unless evidence shows otherwise...I think going for him personally is a witch hunt without logical basis and a very solid way for those 'musicians' to avoid all notice in the end. The Potomac Two-Step, as one movie famously put it.

I don't know about "earned"..but hell, he worked hard to get the job...twice...and the second time he knew what he was in for, so I don't shed tears for the man. He asked for the job. Aside from that he has a thicker skin than most past POTUSs IMO.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
* I'd add here.... I'm taking each of these scandals one by one and on the merits of each, alone. Which is how I can call for heads on the Libya situation but largely...unless evidence shows otherwise...give Obama a pass on this one as an individual man. Some are lumping them all together like there is no distinction and that is where witch hunting becomes a sport and an ugly one at that, IMO.

edit on 19-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Politics is an ugly sport. It is natural for the GOP to work hard to disregard the details and paint a steady stream. To some extent that was done with Pres. Bush as well. If we drilled down on the laundry list of issues of the Bush years...some had veracity..some were painted with a very broad brush to fit a narrative.

Again...my worry is that when an issue/scandal is turned into a partisan, political agenda...everyone wins but the people. The accused rallies thier party around the mocked-up evidence...the accusers rally thier party with the questionable evidence...and the agency or branch of government that effed up is able to duck thier heads, avoid accountability and wait for the next election when everyone pretends it has all been fixed.

Originally posted by Helious

Oh, now the IRS did NOTHING wrong, just doing their jobs eh? I guess the self admission of targeting specific groups, IRS officials pleading the fifth and congressional hearings being held for weeks on end were all done because absolutely nothing was done wrong.

Give me a break.

No, they did eff up...they shifted from objective analysis to keywording "Tea Party" etc.

It was an ethical breech and a breech of protocol and kinda stupid, but I do get why they did it.

I mean, think about it ...a group asking for a special tax-free status with the challenging acronym "(T)axed (E)nough (A)lready" right there in thier name? Why not apply for tax free status with the name "WE HATE PAYING TAXES AND THINK THE IRS SHOULD BE ABOLISHED Org." and see if that group gets a little extra scrutiny?

Like I said...I understand the thinking...but the IRS needs to be better than that and have the strictest of non-partisan safeguards in place.

In the immortal words of the IDIOT George W Bush " Fool me once, shame on, Shame on you, Fool me twice, Duh, can't get fooled again"



Just keep spoon feeding yourself this BS the GOVT keeps giving you

reply to post by Helious

Oh, now the IRS did NOTHING wrong, just doing their jobs eh? I guess the self admission of targeting specific groups, IRS officials pleading the fifth and congressional hearings being held for weeks on end were all done because absolutely nothing was done wrong. Give me a break.

Lol no one is saying that, at all, in fact, everyone is saying the exact opposite of that, once this investigation started, at the behest of the IRS, not Obama, it became political theater.

The point is, trying to paint this as a Obama devised plan to "screw" the tea party groups is about as justifiable as them targetting tea party groups directly.

Again though, if you read the whole transcripts you get a different picture of the whole thing. Something that most of you, clearly, are unwilling to do.

nope, you'd rather call the OP a liar and attack them then actually READ the transcripts. Nope, you'll believe snippets and edits of the transcripts as long as they fit the story, but the whole thing, no, that's a fraud. Mental gymnastics people. Blame the government, blame the IRS, blame anyone involved and punish them, but get over this partisan attacking Obama at all costs crap real fast, it just makes your argument even weaker.

the President really has little control over the daily doings of the government, anyone who would think he has direct control over that stuff is ignorant, deluded, or worse.

In directly, guilt by association, sure, but calling this an Obama scandal, just like some of the green energy projects, it's laughable. Well would be laughable if so many people weren't buying it hook line and sinker.

You do realize how you guys sound to most of us right?

Your party lies cheats and steals
My party would never do that.

ALL political parties lie cheat and steal, all of em are crooked, you honestly think they wouldn't be using this to attack the Obama administration? I mean, really, you honestly believe they wouldn't skew this to fit their narrative?

For people who are open to conspiracies, some of you are pretty damn naive

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

I have a hard time believing this story because if it were true, then there'd have been no issue. This looks like a stop-gap measure.

It also doesn't explain the hundreds of visits to the Obama WhiteHouse, nor does it explain the director (what's her name) who pleaded the 5th earlier this month.

From Fast & Furious to Benghazi to the IRS scandal, it appears that the administration is blissfully ignorant and that the actual running of the country and implementation of policiy is determined by low-level office-types.

Well, what do you expect from this Administration?

EVERYTHING that happens under this administration is given an "excuse" or a "pass". Now, if Bush did this, the Progressives would have had this plastered on every street corner, saying the SAME thing. Its his Administration, his problems, and the "buck stops here" motto would have been the talking point till they could call for impeachment.

Obama's Administration needs a microscope, and maybe an Enema.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yes the GOP had a guy work for NSA who decided to blow the whistle on them in hopes for what? to win the next election lol this time we will beat Obama lol Obama cant run anymore this is his second term. Obama has had a bunch of scandals all of them are an issue except the "birther thing" getting holder out of a congressional hearing thought executive privilege, the Benghazi issue, The irs scandal and the NSA scandel come on wake up he knows about all of it. targeting conservatives during a election seriously was just a IRS mistake that just so happened to work in favor of obama lol? Are you that gullible?

LOL lets make fun of the conspiracy people claiming this scandal is a conspiracy. Then you purpose its actually a conspiracy the GOP is actively perpetrating against the president for what gain? Hypocritical much?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by totallackey

 

You know, I tend to agree with you here. Reagan was a conservative's Republican, IMO....but making the compromise to bring in that evil little troll of a Vice President sealed the fate of a nation in ways he could never really have grasped at the time. Personally, I respect Reagan and his memory deeply. I've even visited his Library, twice. A heck of a place if you get the chance, not least of which for the actual walk through you do of Air Force One as it stood in Reagan's days in office.

However...when the man screwed up (Mental Health System taken apart... Iran/Contra... to name a couple) he screwed the poor pooch so bad they should have arrested him for animal cruelty. Nothing quite as bad as having chosen George H.W. Bush to be his running mate tho. Almost a fatal mistake for the old guy.

Reagan is just as complicit as his predecessors in aiding the financial/corporate elite with the looting of this nation. May he rest in piss.

Deny your own ignorance. You people, if you have personal insight at all, know what is happening here. The Tea Party and bigots went wild after a black man became president. That is why they got scrutinized. And it has happened to progressives too. And both ends of the political spectrum deserve the attention of the IRS.

reply to post by supremecommander


I don't even feel that hard about Barack Obama.

Careful with all that hate and bitterness....it can eat a person alive, from the inside out. Eat all the hope and color from life....like a plague.

With all do respect:

Really sitting there saying a government organization targeting it's poltical opponents after gettng their butts kicked in the 2010 midterms did not come from the admiinistration itself?

I don't buy that not in the slightest.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by tracehd1

 

And this kind of juvenile, petty BS is exactly the reason I don't participate much in political threads anymore. The majority of people (certainly over half in this thread) have NO INTEREST in the facts or in actual discussion or debate... They just want to come on and insult people with different opinions.

Just for posting this, I have been called a liar, a fraud, a liberal, and an Obama representative. This is what passes for discussion here. :shk:

What are you, thirteen?

Wrabbit2000, I really appreciate your input and opinions. But, as this thread goes the way of all the other crap here, I find I have better things to do than read personal insults simply for posting information.

edit on 6/19/2013 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

I really apologize for hurting ur feelings... I wasnt trying to. I was trying to make the point that of course the white house knew!!!! They've been caught doing it!! I dont believe a word that comes out of they're mouth!! Unless u have proof... Forget about it!! Look at 911 as an example... For anyone to believe that 3 buildings, by fire, collasped in their own footprints within hours of the planes, missles hitting I find ridiculous. You even have many firefighters coming out saying there were explosions as the buildings collasped... Earthquake readers .... Read ground expolsives as well. We havent been told the truth for years. So to have the IRS come out saying the WH did not know... Bull#!!!

Soooo, again i apologize for hurting ur feelings... But honestly it was intended! Hope u forgive me. And no I'm not 13... I'm 48. I'll try to act my age. And yes that comment is dripping w/ juvenile, petty BS. Grow up yourself and ignore the sticks and stones.. Thats what grown up's do! And honestly if u dont like what others say find another site that agree's w/ all u have to say and those that dont are very nice in the way they try to tell u ur acting like a child. U told wabbit2000 ur so sick of ATS!!! Im glad i didnt run away when one of my threads got lambasted by people that dont believe in chemtrails. Its just like what we were taught in kidnergarten.. Sticks and stones assholes.. Sticks and stones!!!! I hope u do forgive me though. And yes more of my juvenile, petty BS ;0)

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by xuenchen
With all the lies so far,

why would this new miracle be truthful ?

Because this is testimony that Darryl Issa gathered? Are you saying that the selected, out-of-context, excerpts that Darryl Issa released from this same testimony was credible?...But the full transcript is not?

There are "partisan glasses" and "blinders"...but that standard of reality seems to fall along the lines of fun-house mirror?

Full Transcript - LIE!!!....Excerpted bits of the same transcript twisted to fit a partisan agenda...ahhh..that works!

I am only addressing the testimonies by officials, not the political infighting.

Most of the pertinent testimonies have been lies on the "meat & potatoes" issues.

Shafer certainly would lie, he had ""good reasons to lie""

reply to post by neo96


Well Neo, the problem here as I see it is a fairly simple one. Obama HAS done plenty to call him on and very publicly, in official ways. He ought to be too. The sooner, the better.The longer people spend on things that he didn't directly, 100% personally do, the less time will ever be spent looking at what he does do on a daily basis. People's attention spans being limited and levels of interest even more so.

So, if we spend weeks on the IRS issue for an Obama hunt, we're wasting good time and effort on a thing which was confined mostly if not entirely to IRS offices, from Washington to the Field Offices. It also insures that by aiming for the top, where blame may not even rest? The lower people WILL be missed, as they usually are. Those are the career people.

Obama's term ends...without question..in just over 3 years. Look at his gray coming in. He'll be happy to go, too. They all generally are by then. Those little people at the IRS tho? They have a whole career left and many many years to screw many more thousands of people if they are missed for what they did here. Priorities with limited resources, IMHO. Just a pure matter of priorities.

Do you honestly think that Mr. Obama is going to send a note with his signature to the I.R.S. saying he wants the I.R.S. to start targeting conservative and /or Tea Party groups? Either he did not order any such targeting or it was done through word of mouth. Again why leave a document trail for everyone to say oh look HE DID IT HE DID IT.

Same thing is true for Benghazi,Fast n Furious, State Dept. Scandal and the NSA debacle.Given everything just mentioned I do find it interesting how he knows nothing about nothing and the first thing that comes out of any Democrat's mouth is Obama did not know. He should either resign or be impeached on the grounds of not properly doing his job to begin with let alone if he knew or not on everything going on.

Originally posted by xuenchen
With all the lies so far,

why would this new miracle be truthful ?

I KNOW the White House operative council was behind the whole thing.

The lies have been there every step of the way.

Those commies are using the old trick of "telling a lie to make it true"

Just how the blankity-blank do you KNOW the "White House Operative Council" (didn't know there was one).

Not a source or evidence just an ego-centric opinion that you Want to be true. Didn't your mama tells you that wishing upon a star doesn't make anything true - or do you live in Disneyland?

Originally posted by tracehd1


I really apologize for hurting ur feelings... I wasnt trying to.

Really - this is how you converse everyday?

I was trying to make the point that of course the white house knew!!!!

And this shows your (and many others) ignorance of how a bureaucracy. Do you really think - that the President is directing every detail of federal employees work personally? Really?