serious question for Christians

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. How does this statement tie to your earlier statement below?

After the 1000 years have finished, all 12+ billion human beings that have lived and died in this age not knowing God's truth or learning God's ways, will be given a second physical life to live when all is revealed in perfection!

In essence, are you trying to say that 144,000 people will be living during the Millennium and that everyone else will be coming back to life on earth to live again after it's over?

No sir, it is hard to explain it all in a simple forum I left out much detail not pertaining to the OP which resulted in this misunderstanding.

144,000 will be transformed to immortal spirit beings on Pentecost when Jesus Christ returns. Many millions of human beings will repent during the world wide destruction to come, turn to God's true Church and God's truth and they will live on into the 1000 years as subjects in the Kingdom of God on Earth. Billions will die as mankind is freed from the bondage of slavery to self, through the manifestation of the trumpets and plagues, but millions will see what God is doing, as God opens up their minds to the perfection of His word, not all will die.

So 144,001 members (144,000 + Jesus Christ) will be the Kingdom (kings and priests) ruling over millions of physical human beings that survived armaggedon. Humans will reproduce during the 1000 years families will grow and mankind will repopulate the Earth under the leadership of Elohim (spirit beings, children of God), one Governement (law) enforced by perfected beings; one religion (what is true) taught by perfected beings to physical carnal mankind living on the Earth. I will be a physical human living on Earth, I was called too late for justification into Elohim at Jesus Christ's return.

Then AFTER the 1000 years all that have ever lived and died (in the last 7000 years i.e. 6000 years of this age and 1000 years of the millenium) that have not either been justifed (waiting to inheirate the promise of eternal life/already transformed) or judged (anti-christ) will be resurrected to physical life a second time. This could be a huge number I just throw out 12 billion as a guestimate.

I hope that helps. There is so much to share it can be hard to remember that for most this is the first time their minds are attempting to comprehend this degree of spiritual truth.

God Bless,

Text how did the likes of Moses, Noah, Abraham etc who lived hundreds/thousands of years before Christ arrived, make it to heaven?? seriously this means either there was a second way (and so what was it/why n/a now?) or did they linger in pergatory which i dont recall ever hearing about in the non Catholic churches i attended as a child.

reply to post by jammybunn


@jammybunn

I would like to try to help you understand and hope that I don’t get sidetracked.

Before Abraham, the Hebrew tribes were not in agreement completely concerning a God. They became unified as a structure of family more than a nation of laws. They were a collective group of people and very possessive of their family structure. When a Hebrew died it was a common collective idea that their spirit entered a compartment in the heart of the earth and was kept in a conscious state. It was a collective arraignment for all Hebrews with no exception as to how good or how bad a person was.

Then gradually the idea came to their minds that if the bad are punished while living why are they not punished while dead. Now this was not an overnight deal but was a gradual acceptance by the tribal people. As Abraham came upon the scene this was the mindset of the Hebrews. The spirits of the people were kept in the Bosom of Abraham in compartments of a place called Sheol. The bad were separated from the good and the good were kept in comfort while the bad were kept in an unpleasant state. This idea satisfied the minds of the people who came to adopt this as a fact. No one truly knows exactly who or when all of this came to be but this was the collective minds of the people.

Then came a man named Jesus who had this same teaching of dead souls You can read about this in the book of Luke. But along with this doctrine He also preached about a kingdom of heaven. That was a brand new thing that no one had imagined even existed. Jesus never told much about this kingdom and actually no one really knew much about it till after Jesus died.

Now there was a prophet who was named Joel who preached about a new covenant that God was going to offer everyone. The old Covenant was no longer accepted by God because no one really kept their agreement. This new covenant would not be like the one made with Moses. The old covenant was a national collective covenant which applied to the nation Israel. The priestly authorities had the power to forgive the whole nation once each year but this new covenant was altogether different. This new covenant was an individual agreement between anyone and God. Made no difference who you were or what your culture was. Whoever would accept the doctrine of Jesus was a candidate for the new kingdom of heaven. Of course you had to live by certain standards of conduct and this was called belief in His preaching.

The Sanhedrin was the Jewish national authority at this time and this Jesus became a threat to this authority. So Jesus was put to death in order to eliminate this threat. As Jesus was dying along with several other men, the one man asked Him to remember him in this new kingdom that he had heard preached and Jesus promised this man that he would be with Him that very day that they both died. You can read about that in Luke also. Luke 23:42,43 ---

So where is this paradise that Jesus preached? It’s in the third heaven. The first heaven being our atmosphere and the second heaven being the rest of this universe and the third heaven is the celestial realm outside of this universe. You can find that in the book of 2nd Corinthians 12:2-4 Now what is in this third heaven's paradise? It is the tree of life which is in the City of God called New Jerusalem. You can find that in the Book of Revelations chapter 2:7 and 22:14- Read the whole thing because it will really open your eyes as to what Jesus really came for.

Your question is this. How did all of the righteous people who had ever lived enter the New Jerusalem (Heaven). Read Matthew 12:39-40 and Ephesians 4:9 – The Apostles preached that Jesus led the captives out of captivity. Captivity means being in Sheol. These were the first to be reborn (resurrected) into a celestial body. Those that remain in Sheol are unclothed naked spirits. Naked means to be without a celestial body. A celestial body must eat and drink the everlasting food and water of life and that is in the New Jerusalem.

The main purpose of Jesus was to establish the Kingdom of Heaven. Before this was established the Kingdom of Heaven did not exist for mankind. The companion who died with Jesus was taken into the New Jerusalem (paradise) that very day he died. This means that he was judged and sentenced as a conscious spirit the instant his soul died. The same applies as to hell. The rabbinic teaching of a last day general resurrection is not the same as Jesus teaches.

Text Then AFTER the 1000 years all that have ever lived and died (in the last 7000 years i.e. 6000 years of this age and 1000 years of the millenium) that have not either been justifed (waiting to inheirate the promise of eternal life/already transformed) or judged (anti-christ) will be resurrected to physical life a second time. This could be a huge number I just throw out 12 billion as a guestimate.

reply to post by ElohimJD


@ ElohimJD

Naturally we are discussing theology and that entails a vast different understanding between all of us. I am not contesting your belief but only saying that your understanding and my understanding of scripture differs.

The Apostle Paul wrote in the book of Hebrews that a soul dies only once and that spirit of that soul is then Judged. Hebrews 9:27 -- That is why we have a hell and a paradise. In my understanding, a terrestrial soul (body) returns to this terrestrial substance when it dies and is forever the substance of this universe. The terrestrial substance returns to its source forever and is eventually destroyed as the world is destroyed. As Jesus died a terrestrial man He returns as a celestial "Word of God" -- Jesus will never be a terrestrial human again. The law of God is a universal law and that dictates that all substances shall return to their own source. A spirit is celestial and is everlasting and therefore returns to its source at death. The soul does likewise and returns to the earth.

There has only been one general resurrection in our creation and that was when the righteous spirits who were in Sheol were resurrected into the kingdom of heaven. Resurrection (reborn) meaning that the spirit is given a celestial body. All spirits have spiritual bodies but not all spirits have celestial bodies. All other righteous people who have ever lived since the institution of New Jerusalem have been judged and given the kingdom of heaven. The unrighteous have likewise been judged and are to this day still in Sheol (hell).

The rabbinic teaching has always been a last day general resurrection in which the soul rises from the earth and is rejoined to the spirit and judged. With your understanding this would mean that the soul dies twice and the spirit is judged twice. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven so that means that the soul would have to die twice and that is against the teachings of Christ Jesus. The rabbinic Jews teach this as to mean that Jews will resurrect in soul and spirit and be judged but that is not Jesus' doctrine. Jesus taught His Apostles and disciples that as the kingdom of heaven was established they are totally conscious spirits and are judged immediately. One cannot be in hell unless that one is judged and put in hell. The same applies as to heaven. Then what is the sense to raise a dead soul and rejudge that soul? And by the same token what would be the purpose of hell if it is never used?

The soul of a man is not the authority of that man. The spirit of that man is the entity that is punished because the spirit is the boss of the body. A doctor is conditioned to believe that the brain of flesh is responsible for the action of the body but then when the flesh dies what is to be judged? It is a senseless teaching to teach that the flesh be punished when the flesh is nothing but a temple for the spirit. Why would God judge the flesh of man and then destroy that flesh? It is not the flesh which contains the memory of man but it is the spirit of man which is to contain that memory. How else would a spirit be judged at the death of the flesh?

As I read the NT I have learned to observe that the Apostles did not understand the doctrine of Christ Jesus completely till long after His death. That was when it was revealed in the revelations of Jesus to John. In fact the Apostles were not aware of two resurrections till it was revealed to John long after Jesus died. Being Jews, they were taught of one last day resurrection for the Jews only. This was the accepted rabbinic doctrine that they were born and raised with. This was pronounced when Jesus met Martha at the well Martha was exactly like all of the Jews in that day. She was only aware of a general last day resurrection

I invite any discussion on this subject and I hope that I did not offend anyone.

reply to post by jammybunn


Lest I get caught up in the inevitable tangent, I'll present to you this.

Does a way better job than I can do, and I think it should answer your question.

@Seede

Excellent reply, I thank you for it.

A couple of points of clarity for discussion sake.

Originally posted by Seede
Jesus will never be a terrestrial human again. The law of God is a universal law and that dictates that all substances shall return to their own source. A spirit is celestial and is everlasting and therefore returns to its source at death. The soul does likewise and returns to the earth.

Extreamly accurate and well presented. The only part I will add for clarity is that your spirit (mind/conciousness) has no eternal life of itself, it is not everlasting; it is sustained by the power of God's spirit (Holy Spirit) and only has life if God determines to sustain it's life. God is the only Spirit (Holy Spirit) that has eternal life in it, He is the only mind that has eternally existed. When we become members of Elohim (God Family), we will be compossed of God's Holy Spirit and no longer simply our spirit essence (receive a spiritual body), at that point our individual spirits will be everlasting, not before that moment.

When a human dies the spirit essence returns to God (source) but it has no life in it (no conciousness), it is preseved and awaits the time where it can be given life again according to God's perfect plan.

The body returns to it's source (the Earth).

Excellent addition.

The rabbinic teaching has always been a last day general resurrection in which the soul rises from the earth and is rejoined to the spirit and judged. With your understanding this would mean that the soul dies twice and the spirit is judged twice. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven so that means that the soul would have to die twice and that is against the teachings of Christ Jesus. The rabbinic Jews teach this as to mean that Jews will resurrect in soul and spirit and be judged but that is not Jesus' doctrine. Jesus taught His Apostles and disciples that as the kingdom of heaven was established they are totally conscious spirits and are judged immediately. One cannot be in hell unless that one is judged and put in hell. The same applies as to heaven. Then what is the sense to raise a dead soul and rejudge that soul? And by the same token what would be the purpose of hell if it is never used?

This one might be difficult to comprehend, but I will explain "my understanding" more clearly because you are misunderstanding me.

The soul dies once (first death), it has the potential to die twice (second death) based on the outcome of the one time your spirit is judged (spirit judged once).

The misunderstanding stems from the belief that your spirit is judged in a heavenly state (celestial body), all judgement of man's spirit (mind) occurs in their physical state. Those judged in this age (144,000) were judged while living a physical life and overcoming it according to the power of God's spirit. Those judged in the millenium will be judged in their physical state. They will be living on Earth as physical human beings under the administration of the Kingdom of God (144,001 spirit eternal beings) on Earth. Those judged in the Great White Thrown phase of God's plan (the vast majority of all that have ever lived or died) will be judged in their physical state while living a second physical life on Earth.

To the individual mind (spirit) it will "feel" like it is immidiately after their death, as no conciousness means no perception of time passed. A gladiator that died 2000 years ago, will have his next concious moment of life 3000 years after his death in the Great White Thrown. He will enter into his phase of "judgement" the very next concious moment in his mind after his first death. His spirit (mind) will be judged during that phase while his body is physical.

Shoel (grave, hole in the ground; translated as "Hell") has served a great purpose, it is needed for a physical death to teach a great spiritual lesson learned in no other way.

Ghenna (fire that consumes all around; translated as "Hell, or Hellfire") will serve a great purpose as the final end to all sprits that choose to rebel against the laws of God (including the demonic realm), after all judgement has been concluded at the closing of the time of the Great White Thrown phase.

Why would God judge the flesh of man and then destroy that flesh? It is not the flesh which contains the memory of man but it is the spirit of man which is to contain that memory. How else would a spirit be judged at the death of the flesh?

God judges the spirit (mind), in whichever phase of God's plan your spirit was predetermined to be judged in, while living in a physical body (soul) and He will destroy both spirit and soul in Ghenna (translated as "Hell") if that judgement results in disagreement with God's perfect laws in life. For most human beings the phase they were meant to enter into judgement in is the Great White Thrown, which also happens to be the very next concious moment in time for the spirit (mind) of the individual after their first death.

This was one of the best replies, because the ability to exchange thoughts was ready available for both parties. I understand you may not see scripture the same way I do, and that is perfectly fine, in fact a valuable contribution to the discussions in this thread, I am sure the OP values all opinions in his search for understanding.

Thanks Seede.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


ElohimJD, is this some kind of vision that Ellen G. White had because it doesn't sound scriptural?

reply to post by jammybunn

Read what Nicodemus said...."ye must be borne again...." Not just those great men of the Old Testament but what about aborted babies who never had a chance at life (let alone to know the gospel)? The case; therefore, despite the scripture that says "it is appointed once for man to die", the case can be made (consistent with eastern religious philosophy) for reincarnation. Perhaps, then Moses et al were born again in the flesh and that is how they were given the opportunity to go to heaven. It may be that the cycle of life does give us several chances.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

ElohimJD, is this some kind of vision that Ellen G. White had because it doesn't sound scriptural?

Everything I have presented, is rooted in scriptoral evidence, as Jesus Christ reveals the understanding thereof through His Apostle at the head of His church. In this manner has all truth been given to the Church since it was founded on Pentecost 31AD.

It would be an enormous and complicated tangent to go through this evidence in this thread, but it is all found in the Word in spirit and in truth.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


I need for you to explain to me which body and what body those will be living in when they "live again" after the Millennial period. How does that work according to you?

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by jammybunn

 

Read what Nicodemus said...."ye must be borne again...." Not just those great men of the Old Testament but what about aborted babies who never had a chance at life (let alone to know the gospel)? The case; therefore, despite the scripture that says "it is appointed once for man to die", the case can be made (consistent with eastern religious philosophy) for reincarnation. Perhaps, then Moses et al were born again in the flesh and that is how they were given the opportunity to go to heaven. It may be that the cycle of life does give us several chances.

One chance, as you said, "it is appointed once for man to die".....Make it count.

Here's a scriptural answer concerning children:

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these" (Matt. 19:14)

In the case of the OT men/women there is a bit more to understand. They were living under a different covenant which had different terms. They lived according to the Law and were judged according to their faith and corresponding works according to God's plan. Once Christ came on the scene, things began to change. Christ's sacrifice was so significant that it completely transcends time, meaning that it can justly be applied to those who came before Christ. If a man such as Abraham had faith and corresponding works, enough so for it to be credited to him as righteousness, it's completely logical to assume he would gladly accept Christ's sacrifice.

It's also stated that Christ suffered for ALL man....which would be not only those after, but also those before....

A2D

reply to post by ElohimJD

God is the only Spirit (Holy Spirit) that has eternal life in it, He is the only mind that has eternally existed. When we become members of Elohim (God Family), we will be composed of God's Holy Spirit and no longer simply our spirit essence (receive a spiritual body), at that point our individual spirits will be everlasting, not before that moment.

When a human dies the spirit essence returns to God (source) but it has no life in it (no consciousness), it is preserved and awaits the time where it can be given life again according to God's perfect plan.

Really?
You are saying these things as if they are irrefutable facts.
And how do you know all of this?
Is it from the Bible, or do you have some other source?
If you are using the Old Testament, then the writers of that had a simplistic view of those things and did not go into definitive discourses on the nature of the soul.
Probably the closest to that would be Job who said that he would see God while in a fleshly body.

reply to post by Deetermined

ElohimJD, is this some kind of vision that Ellen G. White had because it doesn't sound scriptural?

This isn't Adventism he is talking about but Jehovah's Witness propaganda.
Adventist believe that the saints will be in heaven during the thousand years, and that no one will be alive on earth during that time.

reply to post by jammybunn


Before atonement for sin was made at Calvary the righteous dead went to a place named "Abraham's Bosom". (See the story of the beggar Lazarus). Once atonement was made for all man's sin the righteous can go to heaven. Those righteous who died before Christ were taken to heaven with Him when He resurrected.

Originally posted by Nevertheless
reply to post by jammybunn

 

I'm surprised that your Dad who is a churchy person couldn't respond.
Jesus was a Jew.

Does that answer your question?

no - jesus was *not* a 'jew ' .
That hurts my eyes to read that.

'jews ' were a mixture of edomites [ esau ] with juda; He could, by definition, not be from 'them ' .

Text God judges the spirit (mind), in whichever phase of God's plan your spirit was predetermined to be judged in, while living in a physical body (soul) and He will destroy both spirit and soul in Ghenna (translated as "Hell") if that judgement results in disagreement with God's perfect laws in life. For most human beings the phase they were meant to enter into judgement in is the Great White Thrown, which also happens to be the very next concious moment in time for the spirit (mind) of the individual after their first death.

reply to post by ElohimJD



I don't quite understand your premise. The soul (body) is not destroyed in hell. The body is destroyed at the moment it ceases to function and eventually returns to its source which is this earthly components. In fact the spirit which is in hell is also not destroyed till the 1,000 years of Jesus' government is finished. The spirit is punished in hell till that end time when hell is cast into the lake of fire. Then the spirit experiences a death as it is cast into the lake of fire. This is called the second death of your entity. It is my belief that at this second death is when the spirit loses its consciousness and becomes a worm. "A lifeless image" --

My understanding of death is as follows. The soul (flesh or body) ceases to support life and it dies. That body returns to the elements of its source which is the terrestrial universe. What remains, in consciousness, is the spirit of that body. That spirit remains in this universe if it is not fit to become a celestial entity (that is called judgment) and the containment of that spirit is called Sheol and in Sheol the compartment called hell. This conscious spirit will remain in hell till the white throne judgment when it is cast into the lake of fire along with death. This is where it is believed that it will die and lose its consciousness. That is called the second death but in all reality it is the first death of the spirit.

The spirit that is judged to be fit to live in the kingdom of heaven is immediately resurrected into a celestial body with a new name written on a white stone of purity. The difference between a terrestrial spirit and a celestial spirit is that a celestial spirit is clothed with a garment of Shekinah glory and with the credentials of a child of God. Once this celestial spirit has become a citizen of New Jerusalem it then eats and drinks of the food and water of life. The food and water of life are the elements that sustain the spirit of that resurrected individual. It is the belief of some Christian Jews that Judgment is before you die or as you die. In other words the spirit is not placed in hell and then judged. It is instantaneous at the point of death. The decision or judgment is made as you draw that last breath.

The 144,000 people of the tribes of Israel are those who John describes as being sealed before the tribulation occurs. These are of the tribes of Israel and not the Gentiles. Reading from Rev. 7: 4-17 you can see that after the tribulation and the first great resurrection that a numberless group of people are before the throne of God as those who are accepted into His kingdom. This group oas well as the 144,000 is admitted into the kingdom (New Jerusalem). This is in conjunction with the 1,000 years reign of Christ. This does not mean that only 144,000 people will be admitted into the kingdom of heaven. That would not be the doctrine of Jesus. This group that is described here consists of all the people of this world who have died in the tribulation of this first resurrection event.

This has nothing to do with the organized religions of today who believe in a rapture or as the Apostle John calls it “Resurrection”. Actually there are two resurrections cited in Revelations. The first resurrection will occur and be known as the great tribulation (Jacobs Trouble). This is described as when the world will become infested with the seals of destruction and the anti -Christ will rule this one world government. Many people will perish in this tribulation period and those who do will be judged in the same manner as we have just discussed.

Continued ---------------------

reply to post by Seede


continued--------------------

It is after this tribulation that the Word of God (Jesus) will return and set up His one world government and it will exist for one thousand years. Satan will be cast into a terrestrial confinement during this one thousand years. It is after this one thousand years that Satan will be released from his prison and will once again destroy the world. This destruction will be so great that Spirit God will then end this civilization with another “Resurrection”. This is called the second resurrection. At this end time, all of the human race will die and the universe will be destroyed. The humans who die in this resurrection will all be judged as a collective unit before the judgment seat (white throne) of God. After this judgment those who are in the hell are collectively cast into the lake of fire along with death. This is called the second death.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Before atonement for sin was made at Calvary the righteous dead went to a place named "Abraham's Bosom". (See the story of the beggar Lazarus). Once atonement was made for all man's sin the righteous can go to heaven. Those righteous who died before Christ were taken to heaven with Him when He resurrected

Except that none of this is actually taught in the Bible.
It never says that Jesus made an "atonement for sin at Calvary".
It never says what happened to the people who came out of tombs when Jesus was resurrected.
The Rich Man and Lazarus story in Luke is supposedly a parable told by Jesus which was a complaint to Abraham for his giving his descendents a not very useful god. It was not Jesus giving an exposition on the nature of the place people go to when they die. Rather it is satirical of Jewish belief at the time the gospel was written.

reply to post by Seede

It is after this tribulation that the Word of God (Jesus) will return and set up His one world government and it will exist for one thousand years.

Except that it doesn't actually say that in the Bible.
The "thousand years" is obviously symbolic in this book of Revelation full of visions of symbolic portents of "things soon to happen".
Jesus is the Christ who reigns over his kingdom right now and that pronouncement of so many years represents our current situation where if we choose, we can enter into that kingdom.

Tex Except that it doesn't actually say that in the Bible. The "thousand years" is obviously symbolic in this book of Revelation full of visions of symbolic portents of "things soon to happen". Jesus is the Christ who reigns over his kingdom right now and that pronouncement of so many years represents our current situation where if we choose, we can enter into that kingdom.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The thousand years and second advent of the Christ is not just symbolic in the book of Revelations of Jesus to John. It is verified throughout the scriptures. Yes Jesus does reign over His kingdom of heaven now but that Kingdom is a celestial kingdom named the Kingdom of God, The Kingdom of Heaven, The House of many mansions, and the city of God. In that city is the paradise of the Lord and in that paradise of the Lord is the tree and water of life. It is not symbolic but is a real celestial city and is offered to you and everyone who will want to live forever. Also Isaiah prophesied of this very same New Jerusalem.

Don’t listen to false teachers because they will try to destroy your mind with nonsense such as Revelations is symbolic and not understood. Actually Revelations explains itself when it uses symbolic teaching and is very simple to correlate with other scriptures.

The very same false teachings are taught that Luke 16:19-31 is a parable. It is not a parable and is a happening with named people and named places. A parable is not so defined. Actually Luke’s account of Abraham’s Bosom is verified throughout scripture and also by Christ Jesus’ doctrine.

When you read, read the thought pattern before and after a subject. That is how the bible was originally written. It was not meant to take a verse and build a doctrine from that verse. That practice will not teach a subject matter at all.

Rev 20:3-10 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4- And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5- But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 - And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 - And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


Mat 24:21-27 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 - Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 - Behold, I have told you before.
26 - Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 - For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 -And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

God Bless You

Text Except that none of this is actually taught in the Bible. It never says that Jesus made an "atonement for sin at Calvary". It never says what happened to the people who came out of tombs when Jesus was resurrected.

reply to post by jmdewey60


The purpose of Christ Jesus Giving us His love as a human was to establish the Kingdom of Heaven. Now along with this new Kingdom of Heaven is the fact that all who will accept this teaching must obey certain rules of behavior. That should be understood without much reasoning. In other words that is salvation in its self. If we are righteous enough to become citizens in the city of God then we know that our sins have been pardoned. All of this could not have been if the Christ had not atoned for our sins. That is what is meant by atonement for sins of people.

This entire happening is the result of a new covenant that Jesus sealed with His blood and that could only be realized by His sacrifice on the cross. If He had not chosen to offer Himself as the sacrifice in His death, then the Kingdom of Heaven would never have been established and mankind would never have been able to live forever in the celestial New Jerusalem. In other words all people would be forever in Sheol.

The bodies that were raised from their graves at Jesus' crucifixion were not resurrected souls. They were terrestrial bodies that God gave life to motion. The spirits of those bodies were not in those bodies. Those spirits of those bodies were (at that time) in Sheol. A similar happening occurred as Lazarus was restored. Lazarus was not resurrected at the the time he died in the bible. Lazarus was restored from the bosom of Christ. Jesus is the resurrection and was the first to resurrect.