32 Million Data Collection Points in San Diego Alone...The "Truth" is Coming Out

according to them, we are all criminals, or potential criminals. george washington is rolling in his grave

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Diisenchanted
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Let me put this a different way.

Would you pay $17,500 to have them install a public camera outside your window? I know I wouldn't. Did they seek approval from the people who pay their wages? I don't think so. In a time of economic stress these people are wasting our tax dollars How you can defend these morons is beyond me. Welcome to the new fascist state that you help to create.

Also you never answered the question. You ever tried to record a cop? Give it a try , and see what happens. You'll likely end up I jail. Why should it be any different for we the people than it is for the establishment?

Well, it's cheaper than hiring a cop to stand out there. I'd prefer a cop, because I'd feel safer, but I understand that it would cost a lot more than $17,500, so the camera is my next best option to catch criminals.

There's no need to record a cop if we have public cameras. Public cameras do not discriminate. They record EVERYONE.

I'll just give an example... There was a guy walking back home, wearing an left-wing t-shirt... three cops stop him, and after searching him and finding nothing, tie him on the ground and start beating him. the morning, people found him and took him to the hospital. He only moves on wheel chair now, Police quarters refused to believe him, his lawyer tried to use the public cameras on the streets to prove the incident to the court and the state refused to give anything, saying those cameras are there for national security and not for private use.
If you think your state or country is any different than that, and the police, street camera's etc are there to protect you, you are WRONG. Their job is to protect the ''System'' from you. Turn off your matrix illusion of a free and justice society that protects it's citizens- cause this is not the case.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
At this point, I'm thinking we just need an extinction-level event. Just wipe us all off the face of the planet. It's the only way to solve the human condition. Keeping my fingers crossed for a huge meteor...

If the majority have the same thoughts, as you, then yes that would be a solution...

Almost a decade ago there was a guy I knew that I played an MMO with, he lived across the country down in Arizona I believe. I remember him bragging about something he did as a hobby. He set up 5 cameras in his car along with a computer, a database, some image recognition software, a gps locator, and a few other things. Then he would take his car on his 1 hour commute each day (which he would extend up to about 2 hours just to drive around more) and have his cameras record the gps location, date, and time of each instance that a particular vehicle was seen. He also somehow got himself a backdoor into looking up who license plates were registered to at the DMV so he could attach names to the vehicles.

He did this for a couple months and eventually had a database of thousands of people. He was able to map out social networks, normal routines, when people stepped out of a normal routine, habits, interests, and more about all of these people. At the time I thought it was the coolest thing I had ever seen and it inspired me to learn how to program.

Today I read the story about San Diego and I find it considerably less cool. While this is all public information, there's certain information that the government should not have access to. That line in the sand is anything which enables a tyrannical government. This technology restricts freedom of movement and records every place you visit and when. It's a technology that makes unwanted revolt, whether peaceful or otherwise impossible. If there's a gas crisis and the government says you can only drive x miles, they can enforce that. If they say don't associate with democrats/jews/christians/blacks, they can enforce that. If they say you're only allowed outside on certain days, they can enforce that. When this type of technology is cross referenced with things like consumer habit psychological profiles the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
I don't really understand the outrage. If I am out walking around in public, anyone could look at me, right? I mean, it's not against the law to look at someone who is in a public area, right? I sit at public park benches and people-watch for hours. Am I doing something evil? If I see a man trying to abduct a child while I'm people-watching, I will do something to stop it. Is that bad?

If I am driving my car on a public road, anyone could see my license plate, right? It's not illegal to look at someone's license plate if their car is on a public street. If I am the perpetrator of a hit and run, and someone turns me in based on seeing my license plate, is that bad?

If you don't want anyone to look at you or your car, don't go or drive outside. Now, let me know when they start putting cameras in people's homes. That IS bad. But in public areas where everyone and anyone can see you anyway, I don't see the big deal.

The issue isn't that it's private data. It's that the government shouldn't have access to it. A private citizen doesn't have the legal power to do anything nefarious with this sort of data collection. A government agency however can use this technology to restrict citizens in virtually any way it wants. The only restriction on what they can do is a matter of policy and policy often changes with the approval or disapproval of a single individual. Policy changes easily, it's not like a constitutional amendment which almost takes an act of god to change. One day the policy can be benign and the next day it can be anything but. If a technology exists that can transform us from a relatively free (albeit spied on) country to a police state on a whim from someone in power the government should not have access to that technology.

If you want a recent example of where this could be abused. Do you remember the case in Quartzite Arizona two years ago? With this technology, after the police chief threw the Mayor out of his office and took over the town he could have used it to outlaw any association with the mayor, Jennifer Jade, and anyone else known to be against the police chiefs tactics. Anyone who associated with them would be immediately known, and likely subject to jail time, based on the whim of the ones in charge. That's what this technology enables. I'm not against it at all for individual use, and I think a debate over corporate applications needs to exist. But governments should not have access to it or the data it provides, because they're the ones with the legal authority to act against individuals using that data.

reply to post by whyamIhere


And the best part is we pay for it all. The men and women who listen and go through it all. The storage alone has to be a hefty bill just for that 1 city and just think it's nationwide. But hey these are legit, secret jobs created by our transparent government (or were supposed to be secret).

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by olaru12
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

except...


What if the purpose of those cameras is to identify people engaged in peaceful protest for future retaliation by the authorities? That doesn't bother you?

In a fascist corporate environment it's about identification, control and nulification; enforced conformity ....not protection

edit on 18-6-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)

The media could also be there taking pictures and video at the peaceful protest. The government could easily identify people based on that. What's to stop government agents from showing up at the peaceful protest in person to monitor who is there? I just don't think cameras set up in public places takes away anyone's freedoms or rights. It's a "public" place, meaning the opposite of private. Cameras set up in private places (like bathroom stalls) is a bad thing, IMO.

If we let them have "public" places now bathroom stalls wont be far behind. They are already trying to put cameras in changing rooms at many dept stores.


www.ehow.com...

reply to post by kaylaluv

I look at this as a massive force of highly efficient policemen and police detectives.

Well, that's a real problem right there.

Watching, monitoring -- Everywhere, all the time. Can policemen make mistakes? Yeeeess. Are there corrupt policemen out there? Yeeesss. Could someone use these data points for nefarious purposes? Maybe. But don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Could someone use these data points for nefarious purposes? Maybe. YES! And that, along with our right to privacy, is the problem. And complacency.

uhh I,I,I, don't do nuthin wrong - uhh go ahead film away - uhh go ahead record everything I say and do uhhh gee I'm not worried - police state - wut? cripe!

reply to post by kaylaluv

If you don't want anyone to look at you or your car, don't go or drive outside. Now, let me know when they start putting cameras in people's homes. That IS bad. But in public areas where everyone and anyone can see you anyway, I don't see the big deal.

normally I'd agree, i mean, from the time you leave your home til you get home at night you are on countless CCTV systems.

But.....

People being able to see you is one thing, once they start amassing a database of this information, it's something completely different.

That's the point you are missing, it's not that they scan and forget, all of this data is collected and stored, indefinitely.

As a San Diegan I too see a problem with this.

However, my solution is to fight fire with fire.

We can set up a citizens network of camera's and video tape law enforcement. We'll set up a few around the court house, police stations, parks, malls, etc.

Everytime you see a cop doing something, record him. They hate that - and IT IS LEGAL to video tape them. The Supreme Court ruled Law Enforcement has no right to privacy while doing their job, on duty in public view.
So video tape them ALWAYS.

If we are under constant monitoring, then they should be as well. Watch how fast they abandon watching us if we set up camp and start watching them.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

If you don't want anyone to look at you or your car, don't go or drive outside. Now, let me know when they start putting cameras in people's homes. That IS bad. But in public areas where everyone and anyone can see you anyway, I don't see the big deal.

normally I'd agree, i mean, from the time you leave your home til you get home at night you are on countless CCTV systems.

But.....

People being able to see you is one thing, once they start amassing a database of this information, it's something completely different.

That's the point you are missing, it's not that they scan and forget, all of this data is collected and stored, indefinitely.

Okay, I get it, I get it. We don't want our government to have any technology whatsoever. We don't want them to have cameras, because they will just use them to monitor us. We don't want them to have guns, because they will just use them to shoot us. We don't want them to have phones, because they'll use them to spy on us. We don't want them to have computers, because they'll just use them to keep stores of data on us. Maybe we should just give them some sticks and a few stones, and tell them to do their jobs with those? Of course, WE get to keep all that technology, because WE would never abuse them in any way, against anyone, ever.

I am sure to get the jockers and agents here..

Really analyze my statement, consider it wholly, then form an opinion.

Truths:
-- bad deeds are sometime carried out by those 'not so bad'
-- every british agent was not a 'bad guy'
-- every person is "just trying to feed their family". from the CEO to the neighborhood burglar/
-- what your actions contribute to are important
-- "just doing their job" should be a phrase that requires a punch in the mouth of whomever says it. the NAZI's were "just following orders"


The Police, all BADGES WEARERS, have whether they are intelligent and educated enough to see it. ARE REDCOATS!

badges are the new redcoats.

NONE with INTEGRITY is still wearing a badge!
For Profit Prison System... only detestable human feces would PROFIT from that system!! (ps.s, all cops do)
-- revenue generation (bogus tickets).. another REDCOAT method!!
-- when the intenational bankster elite choose to throw some poor surf onto the street, foreclosing on someones home.. who is there ARMED, ready to do whatever their corporate bankster elite masters desire!!

Originally posted by bigyin
The UK has had ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) for years. Every time your travel along main routes you are being tracked. That together with tracking your mobile phone whereabouts gives the authorities a clear picture of where you have been should they choose to investigate you.

Well what do you know all the people looking at the darkside of this technology including YOU, ANPR helps to get people off the road that shouldn't be there people in uninsured vehicles,cars with no road tax (UK) cars with no MOT (something that the USA doesn't seem to have, in the UK after a vehicle is 3 years old it has to pass an MOT every year)

The Ministry of Transport test (usually abbreviated to MOT test) is an annual test of automobile safety, roadworthiness aspects and exhaust emissions required for most vehicles over three years old used on public roads in the United Kingdom.

All major components that effect vehicle safety are checked tyres,suspension,seat belts, brakes, lights even wipers.

ANPR flags up cars that are KNOWN to be stolen have been used for a crime or have no tax etc ,you are not tracked if you are 100% LEGIT nothings happens it only reacts if there is a problem with that car.

With all theses types of technology I don't worry because I am not doing things I shouldn't be

I woke up and was delighted to read the responses to my OP...

It confirms to me why I wake up and log on to "ATS"...

I wonder why the lazy MSM wont pick up this story?

One brilliant poster pointed out the Government wants us to trust them.

In my experience trust is a two way street.

I do not call for the destruction of property of any type.

I will not choose what part of the Constitution I will follow. I trust "Our Founders".

They gave us court remedies. They also gave us our most powerful weapon...1 Vote.

I am not a Partisan....Get rid of every single person that is in elected office.

Then we must consider some form of Term Limits.

Thanks for restoring my faith in my fellow citizens...It was refreshing.

reply to post by kaylaluv


You seem to articulate your position well. You do not back down.

So in 2400+ posts you never decided to create a thread?

Do we have a new Conspiracy here?

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

You seem to articulate your position well. You do not back down.

So in 2400+ posts you never decided to create a thread?

Do we have a new Conspiracy here?

Nope, never started a thread. For one thing, I don't want to be saddled with babysitting a thread. And, it's one thing to post in hostile territory, but for some reason, I dread to start a thread of my own with some of the vicious haters on this site. Contrary to what some may think, I have feelings too, and I'm just not willing to put out something that I own (my thread) and have it bashed all to hell. Guess I'm just really a chicken at heart.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

If you don't want anyone to look at you or your car, don't go or drive outside. Now, let me know when they start putting cameras in people's homes. That IS bad. But in public areas where everyone and anyone can see you anyway, I don't see the big deal.

normally I'd agree, i mean, from the time you leave your home til you get home at night you are on countless CCTV systems.

But.....

People being able to see you is one thing, once they start amassing a database of this information, it's something completely different.

That's the point you are missing, it's not that they scan and forget, all of this data is collected and stored, indefinitely.

Okay, I get it, I get it. We don't want our government to have any technology whatsoever. We don't want them to have cameras, because they will just use them to monitor us. We don't want them to have guns, because they will just use them to shoot us. We don't want them to have phones, because they'll use them to spy on us. We don't want them to have computers, because they'll just use them to keep stores of data on us. Maybe we should just give them some sticks and a few stones, and tell them to do their jobs with those? Of course, WE get to keep all that technology, because WE would never abuse them in any way, against anyone, ever.

Why are you moving to extremes now?? No one has said they shouldn't have technology. I think most of us are in agreement here that cameras can be used to help law enforcement with video footage of criminal activity. Cameras are why we found the Boston bombers in a matter of days. The sentiment now is with the recent revelation of NSA tactics, there needs to be a new conversation on what the actual function of law enforcement is and how these cameras are to be used. Putting up cameras in public places isn't the issue, using them to store data and track every citizen is.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

You seem to articulate your position well. You do not back down.

So in 2400+ posts you never decided to create a thread?

Do we have a new Conspiracy here?

Nope, never started a thread. For one thing, I don't want to be saddled with babysitting a thread. And, it's one thing to post in hostile territory, but for some reason, I dread to start a thread of my own with some of the vicious haters on this site. Contrary to what some may think, I have feelings too, and I'm just not willing to put out something that I own (my thread) and have it bashed all to hell. Guess I'm just really a chicken at heart.

I understand...

However, when you show up and argue the "State" position.

And you have never started a thread. You might get prepared to be called:

Disinfo Agent, Paid Govt Shill, Etc.,Etc...

I am not calling you that...Just Saying this is a Conspiracy site.

You have been a great addition to this thread...Thanks

Originally posted by bmullini


Why are you moving to extremes now?? No one has said they shouldn't have technology. I think most of us are in agreement here that cameras can be used to help law enforcement with video footage of criminal activity. Cameras are why we found the Boston bombers in a matter of days. The sentiment now is with the recent revelation of NSA tactics, there needs to be a new conversation on what the actual function of law enforcement is and how these cameras are to be used. Putting up cameras in public places isn't the issue, using them to store data and track every citizen is.

I have said all along that we need to have procedures in place to prevent nefarious activity, and I got bashed for it. But, how do you expect the cameras to do any good if there is no system for capturing the data? You can't just have cameras running but no one looking at what the cameras captured. You have to store what the cameras captured so you can go back and look at it. Storing data is not the evil thing. You just need procedures in place to make sure that data is only used against the real bad guys, i.e., criminals, and not against the innocents. You need procedures, and oversight to make sure the procedures are followed. I have said this, and everyone talks about shooting out the cameras. Now, that's not a waste of money, is it.

Originally posted by whyamIhere

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by whyamIhere
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

You seem to articulate your position well. You do not back down.

So in 2400+ posts you never decided to create a thread?

Do we have a new Conspiracy here?

Nope, never started a thread. For one thing, I don't want to be saddled with babysitting a thread. And, it's one thing to post in hostile territory, but for some reason, I dread to start a thread of my own with some of the vicious haters on this site. Contrary to what some may think, I have feelings too, and I'm just not willing to put out something that I own (my thread) and have it bashed all to hell. Guess I'm just really a chicken at heart.

I understand...

However, when you show up and argue the "State" position.

And you have never started a thread. You might get prepared to be called:

Disinfo Agent, Paid Govt Shill, Etc.,Etc...

I am not calling you that...Just Saying this is a Conspiracy site.

You have been a great addition to this thread...Thanks

But it's not the "state" position. It's MY position. I happen to believe that anarchy is not good. We need a government in place. Government can and should be used to protect the innocent from those that would mean to do us harm. But government is made out of people, and people are not always good and innocent. That's what checks and balances are for. If we find that the checks and balances aren't working so well, we need to figure out better checks and balances. We don't need to get rid of all the cameras, or get rid of the computers that are used to store and analyze the data. Call me a shill if you want, but I think my position makes a lot of sense.