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The NSA has been doing what it's doing since before the Vietnam War.

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posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 10:12 PM
I bring this to stimulate some thought and a new way of looking at this whole NSA issue. The story I cite here is from a magazine called "Ramparts" which was published in August of 1972.

From the story. . . . .

Far less widely known than the CIA, whose Director Richard Helms will occasionally grant public interviews, NSA silently provides an estimated 80 percent of all valid U.S. intelligence. So secret, so sensitive is the NSA mission and so highly indoctrinated are its personnel, that the Agency, twenty years after its creation, remains virtually unknown to those employees outside the intelligence community. The few times its men have been involved in international incidents, NSA's name has been kept out of the papers.

Nevertheless, the first American killed in Vietnam, near what became the main NSA base at Phu Bai, was an NSA operative. And the fact that Phu Bai remains the most heavily guarded of all U.S. bases suggests that an NSA man may well be the last.

and regarding who the gentleman this interviews is for status and background:

Our informant served as a senior NSA analyst in the Istanbul listening post for over two years. He was a participant in the deadly international fencing match that goes on daily with the Soviet Union, plotting their air and ground forces and penetrating their defenses. He watched the Six Day War unfold and learned of the intentions of the major powers -- Israel, the Soviet Union, the United States, France, Egypt -- by reading their military and diplomatic radio traffic, all of it duly intercepted, de-coded and translated by NSA on the spot.

This isn't a real quick read. It's a piece of reference material as much as anything and a real indicator of how far back this approach and mindset goes. What has changed is the technology for scale it can be performed at, but the job and intent has been chugging away for over 40 years to this article, alone.

From the Interview. . . . Remember, this was 1972, not 2012.

Q. So far we've been talking about various kinds of sophisticated electronic intelligence gathering. What about tapping of ground communications?

A. I'm not sure on the extent of this, but I know that the NSA mission in the Moscow embassy has done some tapping there. Of course all trans-Atlantic and trans-Pacific telephone calls to or from the U.S. are tapped.

Every conversation, personal, commercial, whatever, is automatically intercepted and recorded on tapes. Most of them no one ever listens to, and after being held available for a few weeks, are erased. They'll run a random sort through all the tapes, listening to a certain number to determine if there is anything in them of interest to our government worth holding on to and transcribing. Also, certain telephone conversations are routinely listened to as soon as possible. These will be the ones that are made by people doing an inordinate amount of calling overseas, or are otherwise tapped for special interest.
Source (Emphasis Mine)

Now, it so happens that I just saw maps of what this Question & Answer are talking about, and the modern set up for it. Just within the last day, as a matter of fact. I couldn't imagine at the time what they'd be useful for, but now I find a perfect use for them in giving context of how extensive and thorough the coverage is. Then, and now.

Trans-Atlantic Telecommunications

Trans-Pacific Telecomunnications

Those still carry most of the communication load for the daily things, of course. I'm thinking it's a very safe bet that they never let up on their efforts and intrusions to communications on those lines but have simply been building on that and refining it for four decades.

Privacy died before a good % of us were born.

The Technology has opened entirely new scales to work with for them and made possible the intelligence world's dream of everything, from everyone, everywhere, every day. However, I believe it's critical to put the above information in perspective to current events.

Simply firing a few people won't change anything, because this isn't the work of a few people. It's not the brain child of Bush or Obama. They were around to sign off on the variants as new generations of Orwell's warped vision of a future surveillance state have come to pass, and they need to account for that. It's not their cause/effect though. It's SYSTEMIC.and at the very CORE of some of these Agencies.

What has changed has simply been the level of technology, taking the capabilities to such levels that even their OWN people just can't really take the results anymore, as we've started to see.

I hope no one settles for just a few Department heads or little people. Maybe a resignation or two. If so, absolutely nothing will have changed and everything we want to see end will just go quiet for a long as necessary, then operate at a deeper level afterward, so as not to get notice like this again.

Anyway.... My find just seemed like a good thing to share in the sense of a discussion point to open new directions of thought for how deep the changes need to be here. The Rabbit Hole goes half way to China, IMO.
edit on 15-6-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 10:30 PM
Clearly it is a systemic problem...

Kennedy didn't like what his secret government agencies did, look what happened.

I can't be to hard on Obama, I think he was a man with some Ideals he thought he could do some good, but than he had to face the hard truth of the situation.

Ever wonder why every president looks like they age 20 years in a term? because the Military industrial complex has them and the nation by the short hairs.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 10:35 PM
hey, this is ATS...don't you know?...Obama is to blame for everything...please stay with the program.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 10:48 PM
reply to post by jimmyx

I know...and I know I don't get 'Your our kinda guy' points with some people when I just tell it how I genuinely see it without self-editing for proper 'approach' to take.

I do say both Obama and Bush need to account for what's happened though. Bush's shepherding and Executive Branch control of it's implementation is what kicked the last barriers aside to the building of the Encyclopedia Everythingica about everyone. Then absolutely Obama for having taken what we so naively thought was as bad as it could get in 2008 and doubling down on 1984 right before our very eyes.

Obama is NO better and perhaps even worse. Why? Bush didn't campaign on the whole idea of bringing an end to it all and righting the wrongs it created by it's abuse. Obama did, and in some ways, twice.

Still.. Presidents come and go. The management stays until retirement. Institutions are built over generations and largely plod through the 4 year ups and downs. So it just can't stop with the top. Not for this one, IMO. It's the same thing I've been saying about Benghazi. The leadership people may have overseen the last night, but management level made the disaster over months. Another Agency that rots from the inside out.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by jimmyx

Obama is NO better and perhaps even worse. Why? Bush didn't campaign on the whole idea of bringing an end to it all and righting the wrongs it created by it's abuse. Obama did, and in some ways, twice..

Great Op wrabbit,

Honestly I think the "Power" the president has is an illusion, he is a figurehead to keep the masses occupied, Issues that are peripheral for what ever the real powers really want are handled by the Play Acting in DC.

The people with power are those that get to stay in DC, they are always there and have been there since the formation of the OSS and strengthened with Truman's National Security act. It makes me wonder if Truman knew the monsters he was helping to create.

Its the Reason why ALL the flipfloping Obama did is always on things that strength the power of these agencies, ALWAYS look who benefits the most from these policy's and you will know who made sure they got put in place.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:17 PM
Crickets in this thread...

The current situiation in the US is like an Owner of a buisness and its employee, one that has somehow managed to convice the Owner he is absolutley nescassary to the business. So now the owner feels he can't do anything about the employees crazy behavior, because he is so vital to the buisness.

Convienetly when ever the owner has a complaint about the employee, the Employee magicly proves his worth.

"Hey boss I scared these guys off trying to rob the store..."

never mind they where his old buddies he sells things under the table to.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:24 PM

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:26 PM
It all started with the government deciding against Thin Thread and going with Trail Blazer. Thin Thread had protections in it against collecting US Citizens information. Trail Blazer did not. They chose Trail Blazer for that simple reason. And it has grown since then to new names doing the same thing collecting information on every one and every thing.

Thin Thread

Trail Blazer

SAIC Team Wins National Security Agency TRAILBLAZER Contract.

posted on Jun, 15 2013 @ 11:37 PM
But there is a whole lot more then we have found out about.

Prism is the new one.

Prism is a curved piece of glass for focusing.

Looking Glass is another one.

Board of Advisors
Robert F. Lentz, CEO / Cyber Security Strategies LLC
Terry Dolce, VP of Sales / Archer Technology
Daniel Reilly, Managing Director / Thornburg Investment Management
Newt Fowler, Partner / Rosenberg, Martin, Greenberg LLP

Robert F. Lentz is a NSA agent.

Fire Eye is another one.

Robert F. Lentz President & CEO, Cyber Security Strategies, LLC Robert F. Lentz Board Photo Robert has served as a member of the board of directors since March 2010. He has served as the president of Cyber Security Strategies since October 2009. He served as the deputy assistant secretary of defense for cyber, identity, and information assurance in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of Defense, Networks and Information Integration/Chief Information Officer from November 2007 to October 2009. Since November 2000, he has also served as the chief information security officer for the U.S. Department of Defense. He previously worked at the National Security Agency from 1975 to 2000, where he served in the first National Computer Security Center. Robert has served as a member of the board of directors of Sypris Solutions, Inc. since July 2012, as well as on the board of directors of a private company and as an advisor to several other technology companies. Robert holds a B.A. in history and social science from St. Mary's College and a M.S. in national strategy from National Defense University.

Wow Robert F. Lentz again.

posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 12:14 PM
Why did this thread get no attention? Because it isn't bashing the Obama admin as its main topic?

ATS is trash nowadays.

posted on Jun, 16 2013 @ 01:22 PM

Originally posted by benrl
I can't be to hard on Obama, I think he was a man with some Ideals he thought he could do some good, but than he had to face the hard truth of the situation.

Ever wonder why every president looks like they age 20 years in a term? because the Military industrial complex has them and the nation by the short hairs.

Exactly my thoughts. At first they receive big back up (see Obama's support from CFR member Oprah, who turned 1 million votes for him and made him actually win the 2008 election, see wikipedia if you don't believe me), then 5 years later, CFR member the Times and other media accuse Obama for everything. That means somewhere between 2008 and 2013, Obama got on the nerve of some of the guys behind the scene, and now he's the scapegoat. I feel his administration is not perfect. But at the same time I feel someone is holding him by the, well, you know where.

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