Lies, Greed, and Fear: The origins of Christianity

Originally posted by adjensen

In the original bible, they were probably closer to something like the following

No, your fictional "commitments" were not in the original Bible.

You want to create your own religion, knock yourself out, but don't misrepresent an existing religion, simply because you don't like it.

Maybe not, but I can almost guarantee you that the original writings that later became the bible had no hint of any 'commandments'. It wasn't yet diluted with ignorance and fear.

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by HarryTZ
All religions, ALL religions, are simply irrelevant to the existence.

Sure. You don't need to follow Christ to exist. But it is by His power that you're even alive, and with the snap of his finger He can take you out. How's that for irrelevant?

Originally posted by HarryTZ
no matter what you believe, you will never be any closer to what is actually truth.

We won't ever know the whole truth. We see things "through the mirror darkly". Those who live without God, don't just see through a mirror darkly, it's smudged and filthy with ego, pride, and selfishness.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
You may believe that your 'god' is THE 'god', and your 'savior' is THE 'savior', but you can never ABSOLUTELY know for sure. It is, quite literally, impossible. All you can have is faith. Faith is extremely limited.

Actually, I know my God is THE God by means of rational deduction of a First Cause that must have godly intelligence, power, and transcendence. I know Christ is my Lord and Savior, that He did exist, was the Son of God, and did do all of the things He did by means of eyewitness testimony and circumstantial evidence. We believers don't have "faith that God exists", we have faith that He will do the things He promises us He would do. Don't change meanings of "faith".

Originally posted by HarryTZ
The negative experiences you have had are simply that -- negative experiences. They have nothing to do with any external force (there are no such things), but you used the biases contained in your limited mind to associate the experience with something you label as 'Satan'.

You're saying there's no such a thing as objective evil. So you say evil is subjective? Because those are the only two options. Evil is either objective or subjective. If evil is subjective, then child molestation, rape, and murder may be evil to you, but wouldn't be absolutely evil. These things are just "negative experiences" that occur to certain people, or certain people hear about them, and because of our biases, we think they're evil. But they're not REALLY evil, because evil is in the subjective mind, and that morality is relative.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
A big issue with Christianity is that Christians spend their entire life trying to 'be good' so they can 'go to heaven', and every time they do something that the bible tells them is 'bad' they get scared that they'll 'go to hell'.

You must be talking about Roman Catholicism, an apostate church that has a man as the head of their church instead of Christ as the head of THE church. They believe in salvation through faith and works. The Bible speaks a very different message: Jesus railed on the Pharisees and Sadducees of His day for believe works and faithfulness to the law would win them their place in the Kingdom. Works is the fruit of salvation, which is by faith alone. Christians can't "be good" so they can "go to heaven" because you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps. God is absolutely Sovereign, therefore, we can't work our way into the Kingdom.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
All they can think about is the so-called 'afterlife' and what will be in store for them. They waste the beautiful experience called life trying to perfect their morals, or worry about where they're going when they die, or worshiping 'god'.

Sorry. You're confused again. Heaven isn't our ultimate goal, Christ is. Christ fills our hearts, our minds, our souls. We are in servitude to Christ, not Heaven. Heaven is what Christ shares with us for being His slaves and friends, in service and humbleness to He who saved us by His sacrifice.

You call this world a "beautiful experience"? The only way this life can be the beautiful experience you're talking about is if you're going to Hell. This is a depraved, sinful, fallen, corrupt world. Newsflash: The world ain't getting any better, brother. It's only getting worse, despite everyone's best efforts. And yet here we are, Christians, not being surprised at all that the world is going to hell in a handbasket, that nobody is making the world a better, more comfortable place. Why? Because God's Word tells us that this would happen, and it's only going to get progressively worse and worse until the Day of Judgement falls upon us.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
You gave yourself life

Oh boy. Who have you been listening to?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

Unfortunately, everything that you wrote in your first post contradicts what you wrote in your second one.

Not at all. The Ten Commitments are simply indicators that you have found the path to your true self. They are not orders or demands.

How do you know what it means to love God with all of your heart when you don't even understand why he came here in the first place?

Jesus told us to keep his words. All of them. Not just the Ten Commandments.

So, in essence, aren't you breaking the first commandment or commitment?

I know how to love god because I know how to love myself. There is no separation between god and I. God is the only being that exists. We are each the entirety of that being.

Jesus would never make anyone keep promises, for he knew that any obligation is a restriction of freedom.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
Speaking of Jesus, I'd like to talk a little about him. Jesus was, in fact, an enlightened being. He lived to spread the message of infinite love and oneness to all who would listen. He realized that all is one, which allowed him to perform so-called 'miracles' with no effort at all. Did he not say, "The Father and I are not two, but one. And ye are all my brethren."?

Jesus was more than an enlightened being. He was God, come in flesh to atone for the sins of the elect so that we might have eternal life and share in His Kingdom.

"Infinite love and oneness." I think I'm starting to see we're you're coming from. You're a New Ager aren't you?

You do realize Christ came to show the glory of God, right? You know how God's glory is manifest? In love AND wrath. When we gain, God is glorified. When we lose, God is glorified. When we love, God is glorified. When we suffer, God is glorified.

You really think Christ came down and just went around preaching love?

Romans 1:18-32 - The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator — who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they in

Originally posted by HarryTZ

Originally posted by adjensen

In the original bible, they were probably closer to something like the following

No, your fictional "commitments" were not in the original Bible.

You want to create your own religion, knock yourself out, but don't misrepresent an existing religion, simply because you don't like it.

Maybe not, but I can almost guarantee you that the original writings that later became the bible had no hint of any 'commandments'. It wasn't yet diluted with ignorance and fear.

You do realize that the Ten Commandments comes out of the Hebrew Bible, right? You know, the book written by the guys who were obsessed with laws and with not messing around with scripture.

Yes, the original writings were STUFFED with commandments and laws -- it's what they were all about.

Based on your statement there, I'm guessing that you know pretty much nothing about the relationship between Christianity and Judaism, or the content and composition of the Bible.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by HarryTZ

He realized that all is one, which allowed him to perform so-called 'miracles' with no effort at all.

Well you seem to realize that "all is one", so when's the last time you walked on water? Can you turn water into wine?

It is not necessary to be perfect in order to speak of perfection. I am on the path, and my life has changed immensely for the better. But no, in my current level of consciousness, I cannot walk on water or turn water to wine.

You believe this, yet you have the nerve to mock Christians?

You're telling us that you believe he existed, and that he was capable of "miracles" because he was an enlightened being, but he used that power to "play" us?

I'm so confused.

Consciousness is pure potential. It is the creator itself. It can and does do anything and everything. Jesus healed the sick because he felt compassion for their suffering. He resurrected himself so that he could continue spreading the message of love and unity. I doubt he walked on water or turned water to wine. Like I said, Jesus knew we are all one. The One has no desire to prove the One to Oneself. If it attempted to do so, any witnesses would be lost in awe instead of wisened spiritually.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by HarryTZ

You believe this, yet you have the nerve to mock Christians?

I am not mocking. I am simply attempting to shed light on a big issue. I assume you've already rejected every valid point I have made. If not, you are on the path to intelligence.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
He allowed himself to be crucified not to cleanse humanity of its sins, but because he knew he could simply move back into his body if and when he pleased.

1 John 2:2 - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
And, three days later, when nobody was around, he swiftly took back his body and continued his life.

God raised Jesus by His power, it wasn't some "mystical act" of ressurection.

Acts 3:15 - And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
He did not preach of a jealous, angry vengeful god, but of a joyful and blissful reunion with existence itself.

He didn't preach of a jealous, angry, vengeful God, huh?

Matthew 5:27-29 - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

You know what that implies, right?

Jesus is basically saying, "If your right hand is what is going to send you to Hell, saw that hand off and throw it away, because it's better you go around with a bloody stump than burn in Hell."

Yeah. Jesus was TOTALLY into peace and love, maaan.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
You live your life based on the writings of a book which has been mistranslated, misinterpreted, and most of all, manipulated by greed and fear over thousands of years.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"The writings of a book" are God's inspired Word, LITERALLY the Logos, that is not only with God but IS God. So, will I base my life on God's Word or your New Age antitheist ramblings? I think I know what my choice will be.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
'Hell' and 'Satan' were not originally part of the the bible. The bible in its youngest form spoke only of unity and love, and about that which would bring human beings the most joyful and whole life experience. Over the years, however, the greedy and power-hungry saw an opportunity. They created a church and formed the Christian religion. But this religion was not based off the teachings of Christ. It was based off counterfeit varieties of his teachings, laced with fear and hatred. This was the invention of sin.

You murdered a dozen nuns and then bragged about it on ATS, but somebody hacked into your account and edited the posts so nobody would see what you did. See? I can't make claims about your writings too without any evidence.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
They told people that if they did not attend the holy Church of Christ, they would face eternal damnation. This, as you may guess, did the trick. People started flocking to these churches, trying to save their soul from the 'depths of Hell'.

Yes. And then John Calvin was born, the Protestant Reformation took place, and the Roman Catholic church was crushed under the true wisdom of God.

reply to post by adjensen


Brother (or sister?):

This man knows absolutely nothing about God's Word. I really have no idea where he's getting his information about the "original text of the Bible" and other misinformation (like Jesus was basically some kind of mystical Hindu ascetic shaman or something from the way He was being described).

Every letter in his posts is dripping with Satanic lies and New Age nonsense that has absolutely no backing by Scripture or anything else for that matter.

Case closed. Get thee behind, HarryTZ.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by flexy123

 

How do you understand, and I mean TRULY *understand*? By reading someone else's books? By taking at face value what a religious teacher tells you? This is NOT understanding. You simply hear something and adopt his belief as your own. What do you KNOW and how do you KNOW when all this is 3rd hand teachings, from a book which was edited 1000 times because rulers added and deleted things for specific reasons?

It's called the HOLY Spirit. Not through a bunch of contradicting spirits.

All 'spirits' are one spirit. YOU are the Holy Spirit. No individuation of this One Spirit finds joy or happiness in purposely 'misleading' one on their quest for Truth.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

I thought this thread was about Christianity.

Christianity doesn't try to exert control like Islamic countries who try to use Islam as a political tool.

Secondly, a few bad apples are always going to try and spoil the barrel, but that's not what religion is about. That's what people are about.

Religion may not be about sabotaging spiritual evolution... but that's the only thing it's good for.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


It's simply ridiculous to say that we are born 'evil'. Where did this idea even come from, that we deserve to go to hell simply for existing? How is it fair to label something as evil that had no choice in the matter? Did god create imperfect beings? The current bible is so contradictory to its own message that it's jaw dropping how people still subscribe to its so-called 'teachings'.

And about those ascended masters... You realize that mysticism is the oldest spiritual belief system in existence? That there have been those who have found the source of existence itself since the beginning of humanity? It sure is inconvenient that Jesus didn't come along for another 15,000+ years. Spirituality has nothing to do with any 'cult', and your saying that it does is truly ignorant. Christianity is just another religion in a sea of thousands and thousands. When you realize that you are nothing special, you will understand spirituality a little better.

Of course I wouldn't know about Jesus without the bible. But do I need to know about Jesus in order to progress spiritually? Do I need know about anybody, for that matter? No, and in fact, it is because of other people (and the whole of society) that we as humans are in this egoic mess. If we remained objective in all that we do, and saw reality as it is instead of what we think it is or what it 'should be', there would literally be nothing other than enlightened beings on this planet, and religion would have no foothold anywhere.

reply to post by HarryTZ


Organized religion isn't something God is pleased with.

Genesis 11 tells us about the first organized religion: Noah's descendants decided to build the Tower of Babel, instead of obeying God. Their unity was of higher importance to them than God. What did God do? He confused their languages, and broke up the first organized religion.

Organized religion devolves into not worshiping God or placing importance on God's grace, but worshiping idols and placing importance on rituals and rules. Israel experienced many conflicts with organized religion. The worship of Baal, Molech, Dagon, and God won against these religions.

Or perhaps the Pharisees and Sadducees. They were the most religious people of their day. Jesus confronted them at every turn about their teachings, lifestyle, and overall hypocricy. Paul wrote to the Galatians and Colossians, warning them about placing importance on works and rituals, essentially altering what Christ's Church was about. And in the End Times, the Antichrist will even set up a one world religion. How's that for organized religion?

reply to post by HarryTZ

I know how to love god because I know how to love myself. There is no separation between god and I. God is the only being that exists. We are each the entirety of that being.

Jesus would never make anyone keep promises, for he knew that any obligation is a restriction of freedom.

Did you come up with these ideas on your own or did you get them from the spirit world?

reply to post by HarryTZ

You realize that mysticism is the oldest spiritual belief system in existence?

I guess that answers my question.

You're in touch with Lucifer and his Lords of Light?

Originally posted by HarryTZ
It's simply ridiculous to say that we are born 'evil'. Where did this idea even come from, that we deserve to go to hell simply for existing?

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God

Originally posted by HarryTZ
How is it fair to label something as evil that had no choice in the matter?

We don't have a choice in the matter. We don't have a choice on being saved either. WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD. There is no autonomy, there is no free will. You're a slave to something, and it's either going to be Satan or Christ.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
Spirituality has nothing to do with any 'cult', and your saying that it does is truly ignorant.

What you're "teaching" is of a cultish nature. What is a cult in Christian terms? It is any teaching that claims to be rooted in "classical Christianity" but adds or takes away anything from God's inspired word. That's what you're doing, therefore, you belong to a cult, even if it's just you in your lonesome sitting there taking lines from Satan himself.

Originally posted by HarryTZ
If we remained objective in all that we do, and saw reality as it is instead of what we think it is or what it 'should be', there would literally be nothing other than enlightened beings on this planet, and religion would have no foothold anywhere.

Good luck being enlightened without Christ. You'll have an easier time biting your own teeth.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
1 John 2:2 - And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

You're using the bible to try and prove the bible. See the problem?

God raised Jesus by His power, it wasn't some "mystical act" of ressurection.

God and Jesus were one, just as is every other person, place, thing, and situation is one with God.

Acts 3:15 - And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Again, quoting the bible to try and prove its validity. This is completely nonsensical, I hope you know.

He didn't preach of a jealous, angry, vengeful God, huh?

Matthew 5:27-29 - Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

You know what that implies, right?

Jesus is basically saying, "If your right hand is what is going to send you to Hell, saw that hand off and throw it away, because it's better you go around with a bloody stump than burn in Hell."

Yeah. Jesus was TOTALLY into peace and love, maaan.

See, all you have to defend your beliefs is a book written almost 2000 years ago that has been so messed up by so many people that it's just not even funny. And when someone sees something fishy about what the bible says, hey, not a problem, let's just blindly cite more verses hoping they eventually believe us.

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"The writings of a book" are God's inspired Word, LITERALLY the Logos, that is not only with God but IS God. So, will I base my life on God's Word or your New Age antitheist ramblings? I think I know what my choice will be.

If you would rather trust your entire existence to a physical book instead of your own pure consciousness, that is not my decision.

Also, it's a bit ironic that you are referring to my standpoint as 'New Age', considering that its teachings and wisdom stretch back farther than any other religion on this planet.

You murdered a dozen nuns and then bragged about it on ATS, but somebody hacked into your account and edited the posts so nobody would see what you did. See? I can't make claims about your writings too without any evidence.

This is true. But if Jesus was the person that I, and many thousands of other people, think that he was, then our view makes a bit more sense.

Yes. And then John Calvin was born, the Protestant Reformation took place, and the Roman Catholic church was crushed under the true wisdom of God.

If that was true there wouldn't be any Roman Catholics left, now would there. Don't you see what you're doing? You're bashing other religions, all the while thinking that yours is THE religion. I am telling you to transcend all religion and free yourself from the irrational dogma that has probably been forced into your brain since you were just an infant.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

I didn't give myself anything, i inherited death and despair. Before Christ i was being consumed by hatred and rage, i had sex with married women, engaged in drugs and alcohol and went into a tailspin until one day i had enough and i had 2 choices, blow my brains out or stop making war on God. See the thing about sin is, it's pretty damn fun, thats why no one wants to be a christian. I certainly didn't grow up saying "Daddy i want to be a christian when i grow up!". But you know what? I did things my way for 30 years, until i finally realized my way wasn't working out.

Satan is a masterful conman.

Satan: "Here, take this, you'll love it."

You: "That's awesome! Wait, what's it cost?"

Satan: "Don't worry about it, I'll come around later for payment."

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

You realize that mysticism is the oldest spiritual belief system in existence?

I guess that answers my question.

You're in touch with Lucifer and his Lords of Light?

I am in touch with myself. I don't see what some made up entity or entities has to do with it.

reply to post by HarryTZ


What kind of mysticism do you practice?