Mobile devices are bad for ATS.

Maybe change the title.

Crappy Mobile devices are bad for ATS.

I'm on mobile for 95% of the time. I can open all links besides a few exceptions, I can edit posts and my own posts are just as crappy as when I'm on a desktop. It's not about the device it's about it's owners and their changing behaviour.

It's a matter of ergonomics as well. I can't fit both hands to type on my smartphone. I'm reduced to pecking, or Swyping, and I can't wait to see the thread that links carpel tunnel to mobile device usage.

There's nothing like a full sized keyboard and being able to use both hands. Then again, that's what I'm used to.

Originally posted by Phage
Hypothesis: Mobile devices are bad for ATS.

1) Since mobile devices make it less convenient to follow links, members are far less motivated than usual to follow links to investigate sources on their own. While this has always been somewhat of a problem, mobile devices have exacerbated it to an extreme level.

2) Mobile devices discourage meaningful discussion because of their inherent limitations. Instead of composing a thoughtful and well considered reply, members tend to fire off a few words with odd syntax, grammar, and line breaks. While this has always been somewhat of a problem, mobile devices have exacerbated it to an extreme level.

3) Mobile devices encourage "hit and run" posts. A member will post a curt and ill composed reply (see #2) and instantly vanish, for hours or days at a time. While this has always been somewhat of a problem, mobile devices have exacerbated to an extreme level.


Anyone have anything to add to the hypothesis that will aid in the design of an experiment?

Phage I'll have to read your post later I am on my mobile phone right now.

reply to post by Phage


Aid in the design of an experiment? No. But my own insights:

ATS has responded to the increased bandwidth available to internet users worldwide by increasing the data loaded with each page. There was recently a thread by SkepticOverlord asking users how much of ATS he could trim down without losing users. The reason was to accomodate mobile users.

We are going to devolve the web experience to enable people who choose lower bandwidth options for browsing to have a quicker page load time. Or, at least that is how that particular discussion was seeming

reply to post by Phage

Anyone have anything to add to the hypothesis that will aid in the design of an experiment?

I agree. I take my time to compose my threads & comments using a regular laptop browser. It allows me the time to edit for punctuation and grammar and to fix tags or links as the case may be. I would gladly associate myself with your remarks when you say mobile commenting culture should be held at arms length for regular threads. This is not to say that ATS would not benefit by incorporating such things as Twitter-culture functionalities into the main theme of the website.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

I checked the stats on quantcast for ATS.

On June 8th it was showing about 34,000 "uniques" per day (mobile and online combined). That's the lowest it has been since 2009. There seems to be a downward trend since peaking in 2011 (have to note a major spike around 12/21/12).

Let's look at mobile access. When it was first started being tracked (in 2011) there were about 6,000 mobile "uniques". On June 8th there were about 8,700 (with significantly higher numbers at various times).

Interesting. Up until 2011 ATS enjoyed a steady increase in visitors. Since 2011, the increase in mobile users on ATS has corresponded with an overall decrease in daily users. It isn't a matter of one replacing the other.

Mobile visitors have increased while total visitors have decreased. Apart from a decline in quality content, perhaps the owners should have some concern about the impact of mobile users in general. They don't seem to be helping much.

www.quantcast.com...

Phage
On June 8th it was showing about 34,000 "uniques" per day (mobile and online combined). That's the lowest it has been since 2009. There seems to be a downward trend since peaking in 2011 (have to note a major spike around 12/21/12).

Our Quantcast numbers are borked. I remember doing something to the site code in an effort to correct a problem, thought to myself "ah crap, that's going to hurt our QuantCast," and it did. Trouble is, I got busy, then forgot what change I made!

Google analytics still has us at 150,000+ average daily visitors, with spikes over 200k when the Snowden story was initially hot.

Mobile visitors have increased while total visitors have decreased. Perhaps the owners should have some concern about the impact of mobile users.

I'm posting from the new ATS.5/3 site right now, which is being optimized as an HTML5/CSS3 responsive web app.


But back to smart phones -- they're not bad for ATS, they're bad for society.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Our Quantcast numbers are borked.

Well then don't link 'em!
But are they really counting the same things as Google?

bigfatfurrytexan
ATS has responded to the increased bandwidth available to internet users worldwide by increasing the data loaded with each page.

The "weight" of our pages has more to do with 20 posts-per-page... and old-style image use.

There was recently a thread by SkepticOverlord asking users how much of ATS he could trim down without losing users. The reason was to accomodate mobile users.

Not really. The reason was an attempt to gauge user expectations as I struggle to fit the MASSIVE legacy of ATS code into a new efficient and clean design that focuses more on content than chrome. It was purely a designer getting preliminary user feedback.

Phage
But are they really counting the same things as Google?

No. Google Analytics is much more sophisticated.

The reason our Quantcast number is badly skewed is because there's a JavaScript collision with their tag on some of our pages... and I can't find the source.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I'd look for changes implemented in 2011.

reply to post by Phage

This fits in with my intuitive perception that ATS is less popular than it used to be. I feel this is because conspiracy theories are so mainstream nowadays. Their growing popularity drove visitors to the site at first, but as time went on people stopped needing a special internet forum to discuss putative conspiracies; they're all over the internet, in the mainstream media, round water coolers, in schoolyards and in kitchens.

Meanwhile, the influx of 'consumer' conspirators put the real, serious types off (real conspiracy theorists tend to be a bit paranoid and anti-social) and since they were the most important content creators, ATS lost a good deal of its attractiveness to other users when they melted away.

The increasing use of mobile devices on ATS reflects trends in society as a whole. It probably has accelerated the decline in content quality as you suggest, Phage, but the site's real troubles lie elsewhere. Commercially, ATS is an idea whose time is nearly up. A shame, really; in marketing terms it was quite a noble effort. Turning a bunch of delusives, cynics, paranoiacs and spit-flying fanatics into a demographic was a hell of a thing to have achieved. Hats off to Simon Gray, who had the inspiration, and Skeptic Overlord, who made it happen.

I cannot express my distaste for Twitter but facebook as well enough. As an internet marketer, I should be active on both of these sites and had some shorter stunts on there - but I simply can't.

Twitter for me is a medium which makes "real" communication practically impossible, I do of course know that the main intention of it is something entirely different, but I never felt the "urge" to waste my time on there spreading one-liner trivialities all day long. It's really a perversion of communication, in my opinion.

Facebook is the same, while I am aware there are uses for facebook to use it in a somehow smart way to build connections and relationships - basically it also comes down to an endless barrage of trivialities ranging from "valuable information" like what kind of coffee my ex-wife drank yesterday and similar.

As for "mobile devices", since I am not really "mobile" and blessed with a job I do from/at home I never felt the urge to obtain a "mobile device"....I don't feel the urge to surf the net or being "available" for a call when I go out grocery shopping or whatever other place. The only "mobile device" I have is my kindle - but THIS is a god-given device.

Obviously, I must not be right in my head not owning any other mobile device since for some other media, for example for verification on facebook/Google etc. it's actually assumed that someone possesses a mobile-device. Then again, I do of course understand that normal people who work outside their homes likely have a mobile device, in the same way I had one when I still had a "normal" job.

reply to post by Astyanax

This fits in with my intuitive perception that ATS is less popular than it used to be.

Mind if I use "subjective" instead of "intuitive perception"?

My subjective impression actually corresponds with the Quantcast numbers. Seems to me that around 2010-2011 there was a subtle change on ATS. At the time I was a relative newcomer but...something...seemed to shift.

reply to post by Phage


The shift you speak of -in the time frame that you specified- could also be explained by the expectations of the new users, who might also be posting on Huffingtonpost.com or Infowars.com or Foxnews.com, twitter or facebook. Or all of them at the same time!

I think there is a daily deluge of 'moral outrage' threads and the genuine conspiracy threads get slowly drowned out.
This week was the 45th anniversary of RFK murder and I didn't see a thread on that (maybe I missed it). But these 'moral outrage threads' have rally taken over, in my opinion.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter

I agree, and many of the people posting in those threads aren't really conspiracy theorists at all, just people with a grouse.

reply to post by Phage


The addition of starring posts did more to change things negatively than mobile devices. For one, people don't need to actually post because they can just star one that's already made.

No stars in this forum, most peculiar...

reply to post by Turq1

No stars in this forum, most peculiar...

Ah. But you can flag it. Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink.

I am always on my ipad and like another user stated, the only thing i cant do is upload a pic, other then that, I dont have any problems accessing ATS or replying to threads

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Astyanax

 

This fits in with my intuitive perception that ATS is less popular than it used to be.

Mind if I use "subjective" instead of "intuitive perception"?

My subjective impression actually corresponds with the Quantcast numbers. Seems to me that around 2010-2011 there was a subtle change on ATS. At the time I was a relative newcomer but...something...seemed to shift.

Around that time ATS was bought out by a company, semantics aside. But ATS has had many different phases throughout the years should be fair to say.

As far as "moral outrage stories", certainly has seemingly been on the rise. Critical thinking tends to go by the wayside a bit.