gay, anti gay.....who gives a ....!

reply to post by DocHolidaze


I am just a little confused by your OP and posts regarding this.

I am having a hard time discerning whether you are upset that politicians are using this issue to further there careers ( basically being politicians)or are you upset that the gay community wants to be treated the same as those who are not gay and are speaking out about it?

Could you please clarify your stance?

reply to post by DocHolidaze

if everything is natural why does there need to be gay ads, gay parades, and constant media attention on the gay community more so than before. gayness has been around forever, but only now does the media push for it, getting gays and straights all riled up.

They have a right to be heard and accepted into society regardless of what one or a bunch of people for that matter, personally believes. Hate crimes, discrimination, adoption issues,marriage and an over all approach of gay/lesbianism (is that a word??) is wrong, has caused the attention to be put on the gay issue. And justly so I believe.

It reminds me a lot of women's right to vote and how after years of struggle they finally got the right to vote. Only with gay rights there is a lot more to it than a right to vote.
A lot more violence, ignorance and homophobia.
(women had it really rough, not saying they didn't and still don't)
Issues that need to be addressed in order to make sure everyone is equally treated regardless of race gender, ethnicity,sexual preference, etc etc.....

It is a human rights issue, and I personally am glad to see it being addressed.

ever hear of the art of distraction. the higher ups are fighting a war on humanity. In this war they are taking advantage of gay people. Using them and there "cause" as a tool.

Well, if there was no cause I might believe this, however they have a cause, so it is no distraction. It is just one of many issues,and one that is being addressed finally, although they have a long ways to go yet.

If gays want all the rights straight people do maybe they should act more selflessly and start throwing there weight behind freedom for all humanity and not just themselves. All I see is a bunch of selfish bastards with plenty of resources that can be used for the good of mankind. This goes out to anti gay groups as well. What is the point?

See my answer above this one, because it is the same answer.

When we live in a time and place were we cant drop a deuce without a microphone and camera on us, and drones patrol the skies on the reg. Not to mention all are personnel communication activities are reviewed and recorded. Oh yeah police beat the sh*t out of us on the reg. All while we have gmos force feed to us, chips shoved under our skin, shuffled into work camps like sheep, and dosed with fluoride and psychotropic drugs to make all this easier for them.

This must go back to you saying that The gay rights movement is just a tool for TPTB, which I already answered.

But yeah, keep fighting your pointless battle and see were it gets you. We are being divided, now let the conquering ensue.

So obviously you give a crap....

Well, from what I can see, it is getting them a lot of rights finally.
I see it as far from pointless and a human rights issue.

But that is just me.

Personally, I do not get involved, because it is not my issue, however I can say I did not let my boys join boy scouts because of the anti-gay policies, and explained to them, as did their mother about how bigotry is wrong, no matter what form, and that is our way of standing up for those who fight these battles.

Because it is a battle, one that the gay rights movement is finally winning, and good for them! They should be free to do and be who they wish. It is not some distraction as you claim, it is a real fight with real people getting hurt/abused/belittled/shunned/discriminated against, all the time.

It is sad in today,s world that these battles still go on.

IMO

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
if everything is natural why does there need to be gay ads, gay parades, and constant media attention on the gay community more so than before.

Because, all over the world, gay people are still not equal in the eyes of the law, and that is fundamentally wrong.

Sorry man but I have to disagree with you on that statement, at least here in the US. Do you mind telling me how you are not equal to me?

If you are gay in America can you exercise your freedom of speech and religion, can you exercise your right to own a gun, can the military force you to quarter a soldier in your home, are you free within your possessions and free from unreasonable searches of your property, are you forced to incriminate yourself or answer to a capital crime with an indictment, do you enjoy the right to a speedy trial and to confront your accuser, do you have the right to trial by a jury of your peers, can the courts impose excessive bail upon you, can the Constitution be construed to deny you your rights? A gay person in the US shares the same Constitutional Rights as a straight person, black person, Asian, Indian, Latino, or any other race as well as the same rights as a Hindu, Satanist, Christian, Muslim, Druidic, or any other religion. Yes you have the same declared rights under the Bill of Rights that I do.

Can a gay person vote, own a home, seek gainful employment, enjoy free travel, own a car, pay taxes, join the military, run for public office, or anything else that a straight, bi, or auto-sexual person?

Yes they can, the only thing under federal law that a gay person cannot do is get married and perhaps you should study the Constitution to find your answer instead of making everyone out to be a "bigot" or hate monger. Gays have the same fundamental rights as anyone else does.

The fact is that the US Constitution limits the governments ability to interfere in religion and regardless of what anyone says marriage has traditionally been a religious act. For centuries marriage was a ceremony that was performed by a religious leader such as preacher, priest, etc. The idea of government being involved in marriage is a 20th century issue here in the US and that is only because of tax laws.

You say that gays are not equal, well I would tend to say that they receive more protections from government than straight people do and here is why. If someone walks up to me calls me a straight man and punches me in the face and batters me, it is battery. However if I am gay and someone walks up to me calls me a [insert derogatory gay slang here] punches me in the face and batters me then it is a hate crime and the perpetrator receives a stiffer punishment under federal hate crime laws.

I have a brother whom is gay and 2 cousins that are gay so I am by no means a gay basher or have anything against gays, to each their own and while I may not agree with what you believe or say I would defend your right to do so to the death.

My brother has often said that the gay rights organizers don't want equality, that they want special rights and there are many times that I think he is right with that assessment. Like I said if gays want to have legally recognized marriages in the eyes of the federal government then perhaps they should push for a constitutional amendment that will recognize such.

Either way I don't believe the government has any business being involved with who I marry, that's why while my wife and I are married we actually are not married. We had our ceremony where we exchanged vows but as far as the government is concerned we are 2 single people living in the same house because we don't have a marriage license and we like it that way.

Granted it is easy for us to have each other on our insurance since we already had the same last name. And no we didn't meet at the family reunion and are not cousins.

reply to post by Nucleardiver


Indeed, we do have many of the same rights, again we are discriminated in a lot of ways too, we are not always treated as an 'Equal' to that of a heterosexual person,

Would an openly gay candidate win presidency?

I heart you Doc, and I understand your frustration, truly. There are parts of it I find extremely counter-productive as well. But as long as we have ignorant people comparing gays to pedophiles and beastiality...as long as gay youth and teens are killing themselves due to stigma and ridicule...as long as gay people still do not have equal rights...there really is no choice but to continue the campaign.

reply to post by Grimpachi


im down for the freedom for the people, although I am watching The powers That be manipulate the people and steering us in the wrong direction and breaking the people into small more manageable groups and taking our freedom slowly with every new law they pass.



this vid has some interesting info, and it made me think of how many smaller issues people are fighting about(such as the gay issue) and made me wonder if we even have the capability to unite against the common enemy. Or will we be picked apart chewed up and scattered about.

for those of you that dont want to watch the informative video here is a recap of the message in the vid

Originally posted by Malynn
I heart you Doc, and I understand your frustration, truly. There are parts of it I find extremely counter-productive as well. But as long as we have ignorant people comparing gays to pedophiles and beastiality...as long as gay youth and teens are killing themselves due to stigma and ridicule...as long as gay people still do not have equal rights...there really is no choice but to continue the campaign.

Right back at ya kid I agree all those things should stop, but i believe if the bigger issue was addressed by a united people these things still would happen, but it would be a step in the right direction and have a more positive effect than what is being done now.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


Indeed, a single united front is far more powerful than a group, but that is how grassroots commence,

every push forward makes the opposite side push equally and harder back, we have many 'straight allies', but it still remains not 'Normal' to be homosexual to a multitude of the populace, many 'accept' gays but don't want them to be married, many 'accept gays' but don't want them to adopt kids,

and still many argue that we select to be gay, and thus the hardships are our choice,

and still there are tons of misconceptions about homosexuality, which 'influence' peoples thoughts

i concur with you though, they utilize differences and exploit groups and communities to further divide the populace,

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
if everything is natural why does there need to be gay ads, gay parades, and constant media attention on the gay community more so than before.

Because people are still committing hate crimes and we cant legally get married in the eyes of the law yet.

You don't realize it, but that could be used to your cause's advantage. Gays in this country have a golden opportunity to flout the usurped authority being dangled in front of them by the PTB. They are wasting it! The "law" you mention has NO EYES. It is a fictional construct, because it purports to be law, but it is only statute (statute is defined as: rules of a society given the force of law by that society). The REAL LAW says you have freedom of association. If the gay lobby weren't so busy trying to get 'benefits' (that's a slave's stipend, btw) they could stop and see that you can just CHOOSE not to participate in the society above mentioned (you know, the one that is giving force of law to unjust statutes?)

Many people are still sceptical that its natural and so act negatively towards it, I.E sending their children to camps to get them "straightened" out. Hence, its a social issue that people are raising awareness about.

I've no quibble with raising awareness. But that 'benefits' hook is being used against you, to get you to consent to something you should never have to.

We are being divided, now let the conquering ensue.

Divided how?

You don't think the fact that some of your neighbors think you're a bad person because of who you are, is a result of them being intentionally divided from you via the religious system? Remember, we've only had non-religious government on this earth for a couple of hundred years. England is still headed by a church office (the Crown serves as both head of the Church of England and the state).

I personally do not know anyone who is anti gay (LGBT) or against gay rights. That's why I think that the argument is just a prop. It's not the terrible struggle that some people make it out to be. Also, I am offended when people try to compare it to the struggle black people went through for civil rights. If you don't like being ostracized for being gay you can hide it, you shouldn't have to, but you can stay in the closet until you are ready to face the opposition. Black people cant do that. Which makes it a struggle they have to face everyday weather they want to or not.

Recently liberal politicians have been using gay rights as a political tool to sway low-information voters into supporting their cause. Like the OP stated the majority of people could care less about gay rights but the media will continue to use it as a weapon against conservatives.

reply to post by Nicks87

I do.
You get away from the big cities and people are still very prejudice in a lot of the US.
Only now they keep it behind closed doors or out of ear shot most of the time because people like me tend to jump in and speak up.

It is not as bad as it used to be, but there is still a lot of room for improvement.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


I agree 100% The same is happening in the Deaf Community. They want it all for themselves but not advocating for the entire community.

reply to post by poundpuppy


so your comparing a physical disability to gayness? flame on people(no pun intended)

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

I am watching The powers That be manipulate the people and steering us in the wrong direction and breaking the people into small more manageable groups and taking our freedom slowly with every new law they pass.

I think it's the nature of politics to break us down into demographics combined with politicians constant desire to prove themselves that result in more laws being piled on. This seems especially true when it comes to 'soft touch' laws that don't actually do anything useful.

It's why we rarely see a politician standing on one side of a fence. They will lower magazine sizes, but take pictures of themselves firing rifles. They will say a country is built on Judeo-Christian values but encourage Islam. In one way it's part of the job to represent everyone, in another it ensures a constant trend of two faced creatures feeding on low hanging fruit in the government sector.

The problem with fighting this common enemy is it means changing how we vote and react to the agenda set by the media. When the media puts a microphone in your face and asks a question how often do we say, 'that's not actually an important question?' In fact, frankly, how often are the public even aware of what questions are important?

Ironically, one of the quickest ways to solve this mini-fiefdom problem (including the corruption issue) is to realize people are going to get married and do this type of thing regardless; let them marry, and do what they like and go cure cancer and colonize Mars. Culture is important though ... in some persons view (not mine) if we 'encourage' people to be gay it will end our species or corrupt our youth into a spiral of destruction.

I do understand your frustrations, but persons will do what persons do. Hell some Greek philosophers tried to ban poetry.

for those of you that dont want to watch the informative video here is a recap of the message in the vid

The ironic thing is, the Braveheart clip you used is a little bit of an example of the issue.

William Wallace was a racist, a serial killer, endorsed conscription, abandoned women and children to the wilderness without belongings or escort, and wasn't born into poverty as portrayed in Mel Gibson's film. If Wallace had risen to rule it's likely he would have returned power to another king no better than the line of the English. Freedom was not a plan of his.

Politics hasn't really ever been about freedom. Somethings don't change no?

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
if everything is natural why does there need to be gay ads, gay parades, and constant media attention on the gay community more so than before.

gayness has been around forever, but only now does the media push for it, getting gays and straights all riled up.

ever hear of the art of distraction. the higher ups are fighting a war on humanity. In this war they are taking advantage of gay people. Using them and there "cause" as a tool.

If gays want all the rights straight people do maybe they should act more selflessly and start throwing there weight behind freedom for all humanity and not just themselves. All I see is a bunch of selfish bastards with plenty of resources that can be used for the good of mankind. This goes out to anti gay groups as well. What is the point?

When we live in a time and place were we cant drop a deuce without a microphone and camera on us, and drones patrol the skies on the reg. Not to mention all are personnel communication activities are reviewed and recorded. Oh yeah police beat the sh*t out of us on the reg.

All while we have gmos force feed to us, chips shoved under our skin, shuffled into work camps like sheep, and dosed with fluoride and psychotropic drugs to make all this easier for them.

But yeah, keep fighting your pointless battle and see were it gets you.

We are being divided, now let the conquering ensue.

edit on 11-6-2013 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)

Right on. Its idiotic to worry about this ridiculous topic as the TPTB enjoy our distraction as they lower our standard of living. How come half the country doesn't wake up.

Originally posted by LastStarfighter

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
if everything is natural why does there need to be gay ads, gay parades, and constant media attention on the gay community more so than before.

gayness has been around forever, but only now does the media push for it, getting gays and straights all riled up.

ever hear of the art of distraction. the higher ups are fighting a war on humanity. In this war they are taking advantage of gay people. Using them and there "cause" as a tool.

If gays want all the rights straight people do maybe they should act more selflessly and start throwing there weight behind freedom for all humanity and not just themselves. All I see is a bunch of selfish bastards with plenty of resources that can be used for the good of mankind. This goes out to anti gay groups as well. What is the point?

When we live in a time and place were we cant drop a deuce without a microphone and camera on us, and drones patrol the skies on the reg. Not to mention all are personnel communication activities are reviewed and recorded. Oh yeah police beat the sh*t out of us on the reg.

All while we have gmos force feed to us, chips shoved under our skin, shuffled into work camps like sheep, and dosed with fluoride and psychotropic drugs to make all this easier for them.

But yeah, keep fighting your pointless battle and see were it gets you.

We are being divided, now let the conquering ensue.

edit on 11-6-2013 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)

Right on. Its idiotic to worry about this ridiculous topic as the TPTB enjoy our distraction as they lower our standard of living. How come half the country doesn't wake up.

it's not idiotic for us who want equality, i'm sure many in our community can concur that Governments and organizations always find ways to exploit, and many of us are getting exploited,

but we are going to utilize this to bring awareness, that we are Human

yes what drives me nuts is that every tv show has a gay couple or with an adopted kid in it , ahhh ok just keep shoving it down my throut so your gay soooo i dont need it to be my main focus or part of my entertainment !!! just keep it on the bravo channel & we are good

reply to post by blackz28


Take off every straight couple, there is nothing wrong about a gay couple adopting

are you upset about 'Homosexuality' or 'Sexuality' in general?

i've had this conversation prior, take off any straight relationship off the Telly, take off 'Straight' interaction, why single out just us gays?

and this is the problem, it's still 'Uncomfortable' and not accepted, instead of a gay couple on the sitcom, it's 'gays shoving it in our face again', why would we have to act 'straight' in society to not be accused of 'shoving it down your face'

reply to post by Darth_Prime


reply to post by blackz28


reply to post by Nucleardiver


reply to post by Rocker2013



lets try to stay on topic, Im not interested in gay rights arguments for or against, in fact i hoped that this thread would be free of that and instead figure out ways to bridge the gaps between all the groups that the goverment has divided, but instead we are back to square one, pointless bickering over a non issue.

Im sorry ats i failed you

reply to post by DocHolidaze


Eh? you are not bothered about for or against gay rights but want to close the divisions between us? that is what gay rights is about equality, to have no divisions between us all. For us all to be treated just as Human beings.
I get that you think this is a none issue but it is for many here, we are capable of dealing with more than one issue you know.