Gay Colorado couple sues bakery for allegedly refusing them wedding cake

Originally posted by ElohimJD

I disagree fully but that's why this thread is great.

You don't write things on food dishes in a restuarant, you don't design every dish uniquely, you don't make a dish aesthetically the way a customer demands; you follow pre-established recipies and make the food the way the owner determines, with slight ingredient changes based on customer desire. I do not think a cake baker and a line cook in a restuarant are apple to apples regarding creative property of their products. They can be loosely connected but not genuinely so.

God Bless,

You also don't design every wedding cake uniquely. Most wedding cakes are standard designs that you choose from -- unless you are willing to spend the big bucks to get a custom-designed cake. I don't believe that was the case with this gay couple, as they are quoted as saying they were looking at the wedding cake designs offered by the owner.

Originally posted by iwilliam
As has been mentioned-- I have the feeling that if this person refused a sale of a cake on grounds of race-- let's say it was a black man getting married to a white woman-- many of the members you see here who feel that "they should be able to decline any sale they want" would be up in arms and calling the shop owners bigots.


Yet this is somehow okay?


Doesn't seem right....

In my mind the "Race" issue is totally different thing than the "Gay rights" issue...
you dont have a choice to not display your race...you do have a choice to not display your gayness...
just sayin...

Originally posted by esdad71
So. should a Kosher Deli sell non Kosher meats to please everyone...just saying.

Not the same thing. This couple wasn't asking for anything other than what the bakery provides - wedding cakes.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

You also don't design every wedding cake uniquely. Most wedding cakes are standard designs that you choose from -- unless you are willing to spend the big bucks to get a custom-designed cake. I don't believe that was the case with this gay couple, as they are quoted as saying they were looking at the wedding cake designs offered by the owner.

Good productive counterpoint.

If they wanted a standard cake it would be less legit and more proun to discrimination, because they already make cakes of that design for other couples.

My point was centered around creating a new cake different then what they choose to make creativly for a purpose they view as sin before their understanding of God.

I guess more information about the nature of the request and the amount of "creativity" needed by the baker to accomplish the request is needed before a sound conclusion can be reached.

It could be as little as them wanting 2 grooms or 2 brides on top of a standard design, and I would still feel the baker has the right to refuse service, but if they wanted no change to a current design it would be discrimination IMO.

Good post.

God Bless,

Originally posted by Nucleardiver


Good point, but even better yet what if it was a KKK member that had wanted to buy a cake for some KKK celebration? If he were refused service by the owner would the ACLU be taking up his cause and would he be justified in his litigation?

They probably would, it wouldn't be the first time the ACLU would have worked for the KKK either.

Great Thread, Diver. This is such a pertinent issue to challenge
so many interpretations of simple rights, I can't name them.
Made it through most of the thread, I guess there's enough of the
battle lines drawn for me to chime without getting TOO flamed...

One can check off free speech in this one: if you are even against the
Progressive agenda now, you're engaging technically in hate speech.
I'm not going there-- and that's not the subject matter of the OP.

But the subject of individual will to choose I believe is at the front burner...
with the freedom of choice exactly the same in concept but the inverse
mechanically to the sale of health insurance.

Question: Can a merchant or other provider be FORCED to SELL a product
or service of LESS than crucial importance? I side with the health crowd that
individual choice of health plans is irrelevant-- secondary to one being FORCED
to BUY the insurance itself ... because it's crucial. I submit, to whom?
That forced-to-sell thing has to do with liability I'm sure, but against injury.
I haven't heard of anyone other than a hypoglycemic being put in physical
harm's way for getting turned down from the bakery, if willing to pay.

Maybe that was a bad analogy, but one may empathise with the inverted terms.

Here's the deal... in disregard of the merchant's ideologies, should he have
to sell anything against his will that otherwise wouldn't threaten life, limb,
or property? This is pastry, man... not angioplasty. Although if you suck
down enough grease and sugar be prepared for a quick ride to the ER.

And the basic rule of law is-- where is the injury? Have I indeed injured these
two people entering into their [whatever] by personally refusing to bake them
a ceremonial edible artifact... or is it merely a moral slight?

I'm getting out of here now before I PC myself to death. Long life & happiness,
you two.. I guess. (Points papers fly in the general direction of Camera 2..)

Originally posted by esdad71
So. should a Kosher Deli sell non Kosher meats to please everyone...just saying.

Nope. But if they refused to sell their kosher meats to someone because they were gay, that would be an issue.

Originally posted by Romeo1

Originally posted by iwilliam
As has been mentioned-- I have the feeling that if this person refused a sale of a cake on grounds of race-- let's say it was a black man getting married to a white woman-- many of the members you see here who feel that "they should be able to decline any sale they want" would be up in arms and calling the shop owners bigots.


Yet this is somehow okay?


Doesn't seem right....

In my mind the "Race" issue is totally different thing than the "Gay rights" issue...
you dont have a choice to not display your race...you do have a choice to not display your gayness...
just sayin...

ow does this even make sense??

So, if black people could hide the fact that they were black, they should have to do it? Do you hide your straightness?

reply to post by ElohimJD


Yeah it's a tough nut to crack.

Where do we draw the line between personal freedoms and discrimination.
Probably it needs to be reviewed on a case by case basis.

But I'm on the fence with the whole religious anti gay sentiments.
Most christians seem to be selectively choosing which parts of the bible to follow and which to ignore.
Either you follow it or you don't. You don't pick & choose.
If being gay is an abomination. Then I better not catch you eating shellfish. Cuz that's an abomination as well.
And you're just being a hypocrite if you follow one thing and not the other.

Originally posted by Telos
Oh now is: Whether you accept us or we sue you?

Wth is going on with our society...

And the razor is sharp today. Exactly the point of fair trade
and commerce, I thought was "We reserve the right to
refuse service to ANYBODY." I believe that transcends
even idealogies and religion, much less race and/or ethnicity.
It worked for taverns ever since forever.
Great question.. "You will bake for our wedding or we will sue you."?
There was no contract expressed or implied yet to provide a service.

What is it with people comparing homosexuality with beastiality? As if the two could even remotely be compared.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No one is forcing the baker to accept gay marriage or homosexuality or to change his opinions. He is forced, by law, to provide his business services to ALL citizens equally. Equality.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached.

The baker could say "Every single one of the wedding cakes we have ever made so far fit this particular set of designs, and also contain a male groom and female bride.
This product, we will provide to you equally, just like any other customer we have ever served."

True equality.

reply to post by fomalhaut


That is simply not true. Almost every restaurant has a sign that says(we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason).

When we start to allow the voice of the few to dictate to the many then we have a problem. It started back in the 60's and look at what we have become.

These people could have easily picked another bakery. Instead the choose to try to force someone to do some thing that they don't want to do. In America we refer to this as a dictatorship.

All they really want to do is draw attention to themselves.

If I go to a business and they don't take my money then I will find someone that will.

This couple are what we used to refer to as cry babies in the 70's. For Christ's sakes grow up!

reply to post by grey580


Any one who knows anything about Christianity know that what you just said is a load of crap.

The old testament is the law unto the Jews

Christians believe the new testament is the law unto them.

What you said is from the old testament. You should try to get your facts straight!.

Regardless of your opinion we still have freedom of religion and freedom of choice! Perhaps you would like to do away with that too?

reply to post by Nucleardiver


If I were the bakery I would counter sue them for wasting my time.

Then I would sue the media for making my personal life public knowledge, and for printing some thing that isn't really newsworthy to begin with. Screw that lets just sue everyone that doesn't agree with us. Think of what a wonderful world it would be then.(sarcasm off)

Effin morons!

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No one is forcing the baker to accept gay marriage or homosexuality or to change his opinions. He is forced, by law, to provide his business services to ALL citizens equally. Equality.

Perhaps a compromise could be reached.

The baker could say "Every single one of the wedding cakes we have ever made so far fit this particular set of designs, and also contain a male groom and female bride.
This product, we will provide to you equally, just like any other customer we have ever served."

True equality.

Nice try. I looked on the bakery's website, and 99% of their existing wedding cake designs don't include a bride or groom on top. Non-orientation specific.

This article was insanely Biased! All you hear is one side of the story of what happened. What was really said? We dont know?!?! More so, it's their business!!!! They have the right to refuse service to anyone!! Period!!! End of story

Straight people still shop in 'Gay stores' go to any gay bar, half will be filled with Straight Woman, should we refuse them?

as i read the Law in Colorado he can't refuse service based on Sexual orientation, but lets pretend he didn't break the law, now, lets pretend a Gay owner denies sales to a Straight couple, how would you react?

Those who preach tolerance are rarely tolerant.

Just my observation.

reply to post by Darth_Prime


What law did he break? Please post so I can read the law.

I don't believe there is any such law.