Steven Greer...Why The Hate?

Greetings, ATS!


Ahhhh...summer break. Spent the day playing in the sun and catching up on some reading. Now for my question.

I'm very, very new to the world of UFOlogy and skeptical about 99.99999% of the stuff shown on YouTube. I DO believe intelligent life exists outside Earth, I'm not sure it's visiting us. But I digress.

In countless ATS threads about UFOs, a few names repeatedly pop up. There's Stanton Freeman, Dr. Greer, J.. Allen Hynack, and the guy who filmed the alien peeking in his window (sorry, can't remember the name). Anyway, on almost every thread I read where someone mentions Dr Greer, he's immediately met with scorn, derision, and ridicule. In short, Greer=fake in the minds of many.

I would like to understand why so many people have written Greer off as a fraud. Has he actually committed fraud? Has he been caught running a scam? Is it because he makes money on his lectures/books/whatever?

Help me understand, ATS. Why do you consider Greer (and/or anyone else) to be credible or full of hot air?

Do you have an authority figure whom you believe is genuinely looking for the truth? If so, who is it and why?

Thanks for the help,

smylee

reply to post by smyleegrl


Talk to some people with Virginia MUFON, they know Greer when he hit the scene back in late 1980s. He is a fraud. He's been nothing but ambitious about this whole topic of UFOs, he's created a cult of personality around himself that has transcended into a real actual cult with Greer at the center as some sort of UFO Bodhisattva. He blends New Age mysticism, UFOs, government conspiracies and anything else he can think of of into the mix.

And yes he has actually defrauded people. he claims that he can summon UFOs on a whim, into his backyard using laser pointers and crazy sci-fi music.

Steven Greer

Reportedly plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own, sells do-it-yourself ET contact kits - now you too can steer in extraterrestrial spacecraft with a flashlight and never record them just like Doc Greer does. Made claims of contacting extraterrestrials through meditation. Claimed that U.S. military forces attacked a Colorado ET base inside a mountain using nerve gas, no evidence to back claim. Had dinner with CIA Director and spun tale of having briefed CIA Director about ETs for hours. Hosted press conference with credible UFO witnesses on Capitol Hill - ruined it and his own credibility by selling the work of others with his name on it and using bogus witnesses. Allegedly attempted to charge Washington State MUFON members $2500.00 each to demonstrate how he can vector in UFOs - Greer got to choose the location and the time...mmmmmm.

UFOlogy's Own Worst Enemy

Yep, the cover-up was on once again with Greer not being able to name his supposed insider sources, not providing a speck of evidence, and Greer once again representing "the truth" about UFOs. See, "the truth" to those in UFOlogy who perpetrate mythos and indulge in fantasy for personal and /or financial reason at the expense of others have made "the truth" most convenient. An incredible event is reported to have happened, the bad guys are always at work covering things up, nameless and faceless so-called insider sources provide the info, and "the truth" is always in danger of being kept locked away in a secret, dark place where those who propose to be seeking "the truth" only dare tread. Greer is quick with "the truth" and how the field of UFOlogy is often marginalized and subjected to ridicule while the facelss and nameless bad guys rush in to cover it all up. The reality here is one need not look any further than Greer (among others) for the real problem the UFO field is faced with: The charlatans , delusional personalities, and outright sensationlists who are taking center stage with their completely unfounded and often times exaggerated claims, citing of anonymous sources, and offering of not a shred of tangible evidence as to those claims. Always convenient.

Originally posted by smyleegrl
Help me understand, ATS. Why do you consider Greer (and/or anyone else) to be credible or full of hot air?

Do you have an authority figure whom you believe is genuinely looking for the truth? If so, who is it and why?

I can't say I agree with every single statement they make, but a good starting point for you to answer these type of questions is:

www.ufowatchdog.com...

They have a hall of fame for who they believe to be positive contributors to the field, and a hall of shame for frauds, hoaxers and liars or otherwise disreputable people.

You can guess which list Greer is on based on your comments. He called a moth an alien which was noted here and killed most of his supporters he had left on ATS though he might still have a couple.

The hall of fame list is much shorter and Stanton Friedman is on it. You have to do further research on these people to make a final judgement, but as I said it's a starting point. At least they explain why they put them on their respective lists.

Greer got a lot of people excited with his Disclosure Project event at the National Press Club...and then turned out to be the guy described above.

He has left many people feeling like they just got the shaft.

I happen to like some of the things Greer has done in the past, but it does seem he has become the charlatan everyone speaks of.

reply to post by smyleegrl


The problem with Ufology is that all of the serious investigation was conducted in the 40's, 50's and 60's by quite serious people (professors, scientists, etc.) who took it all quite, well...serious.

This, of course, isn't a problem. After all, we all want investigations into such potentially (to use my least favourite expression EVER) "paradigm shifting" phenomena to be taken seriously by credible individuals. The real problem, as I see it, was that none of them could agree. Some said aliens, some said top secret aircraft, some said swamp gas...

The list is endless. No consensus was ever met.

Flash forward 50 years and what has UFO investigation become? A parody. It's a harmless joke that we all put up with because deep down we all want to believe that the truth really is 'out there.' In amongst all of this confusion and indecision we find certain individuals who make it their living to feed off the legacy of 50 years earlier.

Our best and most serious investigators put their collective minds to the task of finding the truth...and failed. So now we have Greer and Jaime Masussan and all the other mentally ill people who will gladly step into the void and offer you their version of the truth...at the right price, of course.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Not so much hate more loathing , you can only get slapped in the face so many times before enough is enough .
Stephen Greer is a fraud and a brazen one at that .

and the guy who filmed the alien peeking in his window

Ahh Stan Romanek , he's just funny.... Peek-a-boo .

So... here is a legitimate question. I bought an HDR time travel device a few years back that I am finally getting shipped over here to Idaho. I'm thinking about going out and testing it, getting some pictures, etc.

If I return with reports about what I'm doing, will I be considered not credible suddenly? Or is there something I have to do to maintain my credibility while actually doing something about getting to the bottom of a conspiracy?

I have heard that Stephen Greer does a lot of money making schemes... when I mentioned that I was thinking about writing some music for his documentary, I got a PM warning me about it from someone who was concerned.

Good to know these things!

Thanks
-darkbake

reply to post by smyleegrl


I am curious about this as well...

I have been a UFO buff since a kid, who always thought of J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallée as my heroes, yeah Close Encounters really warped my child mind. I try to remain skeptical though unless I see very compelling evidence. I do believe we are naive to think there is no life out in this vast universe or that travel to the stars is impossible.

But Greer much like Bob Lazar is one I watch with skepticism perhaps because they were in the more modern age and when more were profiting from the phenomenon by their own stories or hoaxes.

Greer mentions too many times he is only a Doctor so what would he know...And it is often that credibility that comes into play a lot.

I do think in those so called Disclosure hearings he was articulate and knowledgeable on the subject but again that might be to help bring in the money...

Here is a thread about it (Yay! Prior threads!) The Problem with Greer

Informed decisions are good ones!

reply to post by abeverage


I don't know....I believe Bob Lazar had much more credibility than Greer. Wasn't he actually part of JPL/Area 51/S4?

I think all 'professional UFOlogist's' are not credible. Mainly because there just isnt enough evidence out there to make a living from. Sure you might make a book or 2 rehashing theories to old reports but at the end of the day for these people to make enough money to live off they very quickly start to jump to wild conclusions and stretch the truth way past breaking point.

They come up with cute little phrases like 'Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence' etc just so they can keep the gravy train going. But in the end they constantly fail to deliver anything except empty promises and excuses. Greer is definitely a main offender.

As you get older you get much better at spotting these con men and their tricks without even having to listen to much of the made up content.

Stephen Greer's Disclosure Project, funded by the Rockefeller spawn.

Nothing good can come from that.

Apart from maybe waking up a few people- which is great, but does not compete with status quo.

Like Alex Jones, he hurts the situation much more than he helps it via "waking people up". The guy's rants actually hurt the perception of the truth.

Just the old tactic of mixing truth with dangerous lies.

he's an outright liar and a conman

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Originally posted by smyleegrl
Why do you consider Greer (and/or anyone else) to be credible or full of hot air?

Greer's 2001 National Press Conference was noteworthy. Unfortunately everything since then has been a downward spiral.

Do you have an authority figure whom you believe is genuinely looking for the truth? If so, who is it...

Jerome Clark, Brad Sparks, Michael Swords, Martin Shough, John F. Schuessler, Barry Greenwood, and Mark Rodeghier. There are also quite a few notable people right here on ATS -- Isaac, Kandinsky, Karl, etc. The list is by no means inclusive. There are other good eggs out there (Bruce Maccabee, James McDonald), but usually the bigger the name, the bigger the agenda.

...and why?

They focus on quantifiable aspects of the phenomenon.

As a general rule, if a person is constantly giving interviews. That means they have less time to conduct research.

I tend to distrust anyone who's always trying to get their face in front of a camera.

Greer sounds almost normal at times and then goes off the deep end with some of his more esoteric stuff. I declined to follow... and a lot of the complaints against Greer here and in other places seem to be non-verifiable and strawman complaints. If someone wants to go into the desert and pay a bunch of money to signal lights in the sky or moths or whatever, who am I to stop them? ALL of these researchers have been subjected to death threats including their families. I doubt if any of them are doing it for the money. It's just too controversial.

To answer your second question, I've been really impressed with Richard Dolan's work; read if you have the time cuz they're LONG, his books on UFOs and the National Security State and listen to a video where he discusses his theory of the Breakaway Civilization. His conclusions are quite compelling. All available easily by a simple search.

And for sheer UFO rabbit-hole porn listen to any of Col. Robert Dean's lectures or interviews. He's a national treasure even if you don't believe him. Almost from another era where men were gentlemen.

As far as whether we've been 'visited' or not, the evidence is truly compelling that we have been and are, and that we are interacting with many different species at the present time. The FOIA information alone confirms that if you're willing to do the work reading other people's findings. For a period of time during Carter's administration the doors were opened pretty widely. Reagan slammed them shut again.

Thank you to everyone who replied. Some great information presented, I understand now why so many dislike Greer. I appreciate the links and tips...now, off to read some more!

There's a LOT here: www.nicap.org...

I would recommend the Donald Keyhoe books available for free on this site under 'free online books'; they give a fascinating look into the late 40s and early 50s and where the Air Force stood in trying to not only explain the sightings but how they ended up clamping the lid down on them and pretending there was nothing to it. Don't let the campy 1950s style book covers fool you; this is real research done by a professional with unprecedented access to primary source material.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by abeverage

 

I don't know....I believe Bob Lazar had much more credibility than Greer. Wasn't he actually part of JPL/Area 51/S4?

There was some good evidence to that but again oddly in the 2013's I really doubt everything any more LOL

reply to post by ThinkingCap

You're correct, as well as a few more posters.
I drew the Alex comparison as well.. as experiences teach, yes?

Alex is the best guy at 'hooking' the newbie in.. lots of truths, but mixed with questionable lack of truths, making one wonder. No surprise his rants escalated to where even newbie truthers were saying WTF, making it easier than pie for the Rachel Maddows of the world to label truthers as nuts like Alex.

Go to the ufo world, change items and points slightly, and its the same set of goods, although Greer seems to be more brazen in his ways-- must be the money and the Rocks?

Always question the money behind it - what ever it is.
And the eyes. Look at their eyes and hopefully your gut speaks.
Always good to question, Smyleegrl.

Who's to say who is a fraud and who isn't? I've done a lot of research on the subject since I was 18 years old and now I'm 54. Through the years, I have seen people rally around the same people they now call frauds. I will give credit to Greer for putting together the disclosure project. There were some pretty impressive and credible witnesses on that panel.

Every case I've researched has been ridiculed and claimed as a hoax by skeptics and cynics alike. Even when the evidence says otherwise. Some of the lame and outlandish claims by skeptics hold no water. Are some cases hoaxed? Of course they are, but you also don't take claims by a skeptic as being scientifically proven as fact!

Take for example the Phoenix Lights sighting. The government and skeptics alike claim they were just flares, even though the light signature on the best video taken was analyzed not to be flares. The light signature was consistent as compared to the flickering and the erratic signature of flares. Credible witnesses also stated there was structure attached to the lights.

Let's be realistic, for one reason of another our government and many others want to keep this subject secret. They have made people think twice before reporting UFO sightings and incidents. People have become paranoid about reporting a sighting and keeping it to themselves or within their immediate family. How often do you see a news reporter giggle before showing a possible UFO sighting? Reporters are even worried about taking the subject seriously. Our governments disinformation campaign has worked like a charm. If you don't think our government can't call into question someones credentials, or sanity, think again.

Just think of all those women soldiers who were raped by their superior officers. Our government easily ruined their credibility and gave some of them a dishonorable discharge, and this was an earthly crime most people can relate to. When it's a possibility we're dealing with something not earth related, just think how easy it is to ruin someone's credibility.

I can't vouch for anyone's credibility. If someone says they've witnessed something with their own eyes, who am I to say they're lying. I would prefer to sit back and wait for judgement later. Believe what you want to believe, but sooner or later, we're all going to find out who was really telling the truth.