Despicable: Cockroach Jesse Ventura suing wife of slain SEAL Chris Kyle

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
It's Semper's fault!

Are you forgetting Ventura was a Navy S.E.A.L. too. ?

Ventura was not a Navy SEAL. He was a Storekeeper, Third Class, with Underwater Demolition Team 12. He didn't even take SEAL training.

Bill Salisbury, an attorney in San Diego and a former Navy SEAL officer, accused Ventura of "pretending" to be a SEAL and wrote that Ventura would be blurring an important distinction by claiming to be a SEAL when he was actually a frogman with the UDT. Compared to SEAL Teams, UDTs saw less combat and took fewer casualties.

Although Ventura underwent UDT training, he never attempted the guerilla land warfare training and subsequent 6 month probationary period with an active SEAL Team that would have led to his being awarded the UDT modifier.

The UDTs merged with the SEALs in 1983, eight years after Ventura left the Navy. UDT sailors, at the time, where offered additional training, namely SQT (SEAL Qualification Training) before they could be awarded their modifiers and the merger was not made retro-active.

(Source).

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Ok so you haven't READ THE BOOK, but you go off telling me what's in the book and that I obviously don't know anything about the book?

That's right, because (a) unlike you I have read reports from people who have read the book and describe what is actually in it, and (b) Ventura himself has said his lawsuit is about something Kyle said in an interview, not in the book.

Read the articles people have already quoted and linked to. Inform yourself before entering a discussion.

reply to post by Sankari


Interesting, you are ultra-quick with the anti-Jesse links.

But, you don't know anything about what was said in Kyle's book, which Jesse claims has lies about him in it *thus the lawsuit*.

Why don't you link us to a quote of the stuff being sued over since you are so trigger happy today?
Since obviously it must be in the book else this whole story wouldn't even exist...

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Ok so you haven't READ THE BOOK, but you go off telling me what's in the book and that I obviously don't know anything about the book?

That's right, because (a) unlike you I have read reports from people who have read the book and describe what is actually in it, and (b) Ventura himself has said his lawsuit is about something Kyle said in an interview, not in the book.

Read the articles people have already quoted and linked to. Inform yourself before entering a discussion.

Than why even mention the book?

Why would Jesse sue for the proceeds from a book if none of this has anything to do with that?

How do you sue for the proceeds of an interview?

I am afraid you actually don't know what you are talking about.
If you do, explain.

Originally posted by Sankari

That's right, because (a) unlike you I have read reports from people who have read the book and describe what is actually in it, and (b) Ventura himself has said his lawsuit is about something Kyle said in an interview, not in the book.

Read the articles people have already quoted and linked to. Inform yourself before entering a discussion.

Kids, do NOT follow this suggestion and read a report from someone who read the book.

Before taking the exam you MUST read the book yourself because reports from other people are crap compared to the book itself.

Cliffs notes are essentially as bad, although slightly more detailed than a mere 3 to 5 paragraph 'report'.

reply to post by muzzleflash

You mean you wouldn't trust me to report to you on what the Clinton or Obama books say? I may be bias or something less than entirely fair and accurate? Oh...tell me it ain't so. We don't need to read source material anymore, when so many others do it for us....do we?

It must suck having a bias towards whoever had higher rank or prestige in the military.

Since I am not in any organization I can see from outside the box.

You guys are getting upset and taking sides on this based on the most fallacious reasoning known to man...group affiliation and hierarchy ranking.

Next time let's refrain from picking sides altogether and just judge things more rationally. It is just someone else's petty lawsuit stuff after all.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

You mean you wouldn't trust me to report to you on what the Clinton or Obama books say? I may be bias or something less than entirely fair and accurate? Oh...tell me it ain't so. We don't need to read source material anymore, when so many others do it for us....do we?

Hah, how does the saying go?

I'll trust you as far as I can throw you?

Now now, OP. I can see you are angry.

But even so, I think your assessment of Mr. Ventura is a little harsh, yes?

reply to post by Sankari


I'm pretty sure Ventura did in fact receive BUD/S training. UDT and SEALs didn't merge until the 1980s but UDT was absolutely an elite force and from it the SEALs were born.

United States Navy SEAL selection and training

The average United States Navy SEAL spends over a year in a series of formal training environments before being awarded the Special Warfare Operator Naval Rating and the Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) 5326 Combatant Swimmer (SEAL) or, in the case of commissioned naval officers, the designation Naval Special Warfare (SEAL) Officer. All Navy SEALs must attend and graduate from their rating's 24-week "A" School known as Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL (BUD/S) school, a basic parachutist course and then the 26-week SEAL Qualification Training program.[1]

Underwater Demolition Team

The Underwater Demolition Teams (UDT) were an elite special-purpose force established by the United States Navy during World War II. They also served during the Korean War and the Vietnam War. Their primary function was to reconnoiter and destroy enemy defensive obstacles on beaches prior to amphibious landings.

In the mid-1950s, the Navy saw how the UDT's mission had expanded to a broad range of "unconventional warfare", but also that this clashed with the UDT's traditional focus on swimming and diving operations. It was therefore decided to create a new type of unit that would build on the UDT's elite qualities and water-borne expertise, but would add land combat skills, including parachute training and guerrilla/counterinsurgency operations.[17] These new teams would come to be known as the US Navy SEALs (which stood for SEa, Air, and Land). Initially there was a lag in the unit's creation until President John F. Kennedy took office. Kennedy recognized the need for unconventional warfare, and supported the use of special operations forces against guerrilla activity. The Navy moved forward to establish it's new special operations force and in January 1962, SEAL Team One was commissioned. The SEALs quickly earned a reputation for valor and stealth in Vietnam, where they conducted clandestine raids in perilous territory. Since then, teams of SEALs have taken on shadowy missions in strife-torn regions around the world, stalking high-profile targets such as Panama's Manuel Noriega and Colombian druglord Pablo Escobar and playing integral roles in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.[18] .[19]

Jesse Ventura

From December 1, 1969, to September 10, 1975, during the Vietnam War era, Ventura served in the United States Navy. Ventura graduated with BUD/S class 68 in December 1970[10] and was part of Underwater Demolition Team 12[2][11]

Please, stop spreading internet fallacies.

One problem I have with Mr.Ventura is he suing someone for lying yet he hasn't sued other former Seals for telling the fact he never served in Viet Nam and was stationed in the Phillipines during that time.

In December, 1999, I wrote an article for the San Diego Reader titled, "Jesse (The Great Pretender) Ventura." The article challenged Ventura's claim that as James Janos he'd been a SEAL in Vietnam. I wrote that Janos had not been a SEAL but merely a member of Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) 12 who had been stationed in the Philippines and not Vietnam.

cursor.org...

This was written by a former Seal, and with help from those who served with him..

The article relied on several interviews with real SEALS who had been in Nam and UDT men who had served with Janos. I also drew on my 16 years as a SEAL, that included a combat tour as officer-in-charge of SEAL Team 1, Detachment Golf, duty as executive officer of SEAL Team 2 during the war, and a stint as commanding officer of UDT 11 after the war.

So if he is suing someone for lying why haven't we seen more lawsuits for these other Seals if in fact they aren't telling the truth?

You see it all comes down to money and nothing to do with his reputation.

Originally posted by Sankari

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Ok so you haven't READ THE BOOK, but you go off telling me what's in the book and that I obviously don't know anything about the book?

That's right, because (a) unlike you I have read reports from people who have read the book and describe what is actually in it, and (b) Ventura himself has said his lawsuit is about something Kyle said in an interview, not in the book.

Read the articles people have already quoted and linked to. Inform yourself before entering a discussion.

Not sure how authoritative this is, but...

Jesse Ventura has decided to proceed in his defamation case against Christopher Kyle, the Iraq war vet and best-selling author who was gunned down at a shooting range earlier this year, says Ventura's attorney, David Olsen.

Ventura filed the suit in February 2012, alleging Kyle fabricated a story about punching him out for his book, American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History. According to Kyle's account, Ventura was being loud and rude at a California bar in 2006, at one point telling Kyle, "You deserve to lose a few." Kyle was at the time mourning the death of a teammate, and clocked Ventura in the face, according to his book.

Kyle doesn't mention Ventura by name, but has acknowledged that "Scruff face" is indeed a reference to Minnesota's former governor. Several Navy SEALs have filed affidavits corroborating that Ventura was at the bar acting disrespectful, and at least one claims to have seen the entire incident play out. Ventura denies the whole story, and says he was not at the bar that night.

blogs.citypages.com...

reply to post by Swills

For what it's worth... I'd looked pretty hard into the question of Ventura the SEAL or Ventura the UDT man. I honestly didn't get enough to feel I knew either way after a whole night on it but I sure came away with serious doubts.

Now personally, it's as you say to my thinking. UDT and SEALs were separate in Vietnam but both considered elite. I don't see a huge difference and I understand UDT was known to TDY or reassign to SEAL Teams entirely during those years anyway. To those guys though, there is apparently a *HUGE* difference between being a full Navy SEAL and being a UDT 'Frogman'. It's a Navy thing and I don't pretend to understand, personally.

Ventura underwent UDT (Underwater Demolitions Team) training. These were elite special-purpose combat teams that were the precursors to the present Navy SEALs and later merged into SEAL teams in 1983. It is largely an informal courtesy that UDTs are now referred to and considered SEALs but are not authorized to wear the SEAL medal on their uniforms. Nowadays it is customary to refer to past UDTs as SEALs and accepted informally as such by the Naval Special Warfare community. Though the issue can be nit-picked it is not an untruthful statement.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The simplest answer is that UDT no longer exists since the rate was merged with SEALs so former UDT frogmen may consider themselves SEALs even though they may have already separated from the USN and unable to meet the proper qualifiers to be an official SEAL. My old USN rate, CTO, was merged with IT (although that may change and go back to CTO). Merges happened all the time.

UDT was an elite force who the SEALs were born out of. Without UDT there would be no SEAL.

legally - can this suite suceed ?

IMHO - no , as any defence requires the testimony of a man who is now dead

the crux of the matter , is : he said [ ventura ] , vs he said [ kyle ]

with kyle dead - ventura can say what ever he likes - [ you cannot defame the dead ]

but he [ventura ] cannot hold mrs kyle responsible for wether what her husband said is true , or not

What a whole bunch of crap

People here complain and make Jesse Ventura a villain, evil doer for doing what America is all about.

People forget that this is the bed we have made and now we must lie on it.

America the land of the dream, the opportunity, the money making pit and if that means suing a widow for whatever the law allow to be sue so beat it

Is just opportunistic rights that Americans have thanks to Capitalizing on whatever.

"Welcome to the American dream capitalistic way"

reply to post by Erongaricuaro

Thanks for the info and context. That would explain why a whole evening trying to run that down still ended with a question mark. It is, but it isn't. So I guess whether a UDT was a Seal for all the claim carries with it, is in the eye of the listener ..and you're saying the vast majority of Seal listeners don't make issue about that distinction, is what it boils down to. Makes sense...and why for some, it can still be an issue anyway.

I figure at that level of nuts and bolts inner working? I'll call it a military thing and leave it at that, for myself. I can't really understand a world I haven't lived in and that's where it gets to by the sound of it.

reply to post by Swills

I'm pretty sure Ventura did in fact receive BUDS training. Also, during his service I don't think SEALs existed and later when the SEALs were created those that were part of the UDT were merged into the SEAL rating.

The problem is that Jesse Ventura was not one of those that were integrated into the Seals from UDT at the time.

The other problem is that at the time he served he was not designated as a Seal he was designated as UDT. There was a difference.

Although Ventura underwent UDT training, he never attempted the guerilla land warfare training and subsequent 6 month probationary period with an active SEAL Team that would have led to his being awarded the UDT modifier. The UDTs merged with the SEALs in 1983, eight years after Ventura left the Navy. UDT sailors, at the time, where offered additional training, namely SQT (SEAL Qualification Training) before they could be awarded their modifiers and the merger was not made retro-active. Those UDTs, prior to the merger, were not offered the insignia modifier (the Eagle with head lowered in humility) that would denote them as SEALs. The inclusion of UDTs as SEALs is a largely informal courtesy extended by the Naval Special Warefare community. That courtesy does not confer the legal eligibility to wear the Naval Special Warefare insignia on a Naval uniform until it has been legally earned

en.wikipedia.org...

So essentially calling himself a Seal is a lie.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


I don't recall him saying he served In Vietnam. I do recall him talking about being stationed in the Phillipines. So why would he sue a SEAL for telling the truth? Fact is, he served during the Vietnam war, just not in Vietnam specially.