Police put Florida teenager on chokehold for "looking at them the wrong way."

reply to post by Bedlam

Amen. Life itself is a risk. No pain, no gain.

How're we going to legislate our way out of a police state or a fear-enslaved world.

reply to post by butcherguy

I can ignore an adult staring at me, but a cop can't be expected to tolerate it? They have to use the choke hold?

Was it an overreaction on the cops' part? Sure, very well could have been... but to what extent should the police tolerate disrespect? Can we flip them off? Call them names? Wear shirts that say "Cop Killer"..?

Where should the line be drawn, in your opinion?

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


As long as your not breaking the law..the cop has to stand there and take it. Where does it state we are to kneel down before a cop..that we must not look into theirs eyes..that we cannot show them our back...that we cannot talk back to them.

Show me these laws. Some cops, maybe a lot of cops think that since they have that badge..they are God...well they are wrong..they are public servants and it is the citizens they serve.


Kneel and bow if you please..but do not ask others to do the same.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I can ignore an adult staring at me, but a cop can't be expected to tolerate it? They have to use the choke hold?

Was it an overreaction on the cops' part? Sure, very well could have been... but to what extent should the police tolerate disrespect? Can we flip them off? Call them names? Wear shirts that say "Cop Killer"..?

Where should the line be drawn, in your opinion?

I have flipped off cops before.
These cases have been taken to court and the cops lose.
First amendment trumps cops wishes of having the public kowtow to them.

reply to post by jonnywhite


There needs to be a change in the way police actions are "corrected". Obviously, the rather stupid method of having them investigate themselves (who thought THAT up, and who said it was acceptable?) has to go. No more IA, unless that regulates cop-on-cop action. But the process of rubber stamping "nothing was found" on cops unless they're recorded dancing around the body with bloody knives in their teeth is pointless. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust any ruling they came back with, ever. IA is pointless.

Next, the local prosecutors are dependent on police cooperation to bring in cases that get them re-elected. So they're not about to challenge a cop's veracity or the illegality of their actions, unless it rises to the point that the public might not forget it by election time. They do, after all, have the power to simply not prosecute ANY crime they choose not to, and by legal precedent, that's considered ok.

Time for that to go as well. What we need is a cop oversight board that's not local, not dependent on cops to be re-elected, and not involved in local politics. A DOJ function that constantly rotates personnel to reduce chicanery, and is incentivized to put cops in federal prison for long stretches. One that has power to simply set cop authority aside state, county, and local, and investigate with the full power of the feds. And if there's no cooperation, they should be able to put the uncooperative into the pokey for contempt. And if they find some issues, they should be able to just waltz in with a few dozen guys with M4's and put the cops on the ground, and take the ones away they want. Period.

And then on top of that you need round-the-clock monitoring of cops, one they can't turn off or erase. And yeah, we can weed out the places you peed. Given some way to stop it, you'll abuse it, so just pee for the camera.

And then we need a federal law that overrides all local and state laws and provides clear and unquibbling rights for any citizen to record any cop at any time outside their domiciles.

Finally, no more 'multiple hats'. If you're working at a walmart, fine, but you can forget arresting someone or acting like you're suddenly a cop. You come up to me in a store in plainclothes and grab me for no reason and get a bloody nose, no suddenly swapping hats and squalling that I just hit a cop. Nope, you can work all the ot you want, but you're not a cop when doing so. If you go after a shoplifter in the parking lot, you do so as joe citizen and no more.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

Where does it state we are to kneel down before a cop..that we must not look into theirs eyes..that we cannot show them our back...that we cannot talk back to them.

Ahh see... now you're twisting the scenario a bit.
Although neither of us know exactly what took place, I'd imagine the kid did more than "look into their eyes."
Police are humans too, and should not be prodded because some people think they should "stand there and take it."

reply to post by onequestion


Well I understood it that we had Marshals during the 1800's, then during the roaring 1920's they are started to introduce police as a way to combat the Gangsters and prohibition of alcohol. Maybe there was a local type of police officer earlier, but they werent called police

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy

Was it an overreaction on the cops' part? Sure, very well could have been... but to what extent should the police tolerate disrespect? Can we flip them off? Call them names? Wear shirts that say "Cop Killer"..?

YES. Yes you absolutely can.

Federal courts have repeatedly held that flipping a cop off is ABSOLUTELY LEGAL. In fact, some of the later rulings have included a warning that continued prosecution of this will lead to that court setting aside the limited immunity of the cop and allowing the plaintiff to relieve the cop of his personal property. Which should happen a few times, and that would cease.

To wit...

As far as cursing a cop out goes, YES. It is ABSOLUTELY LEGAL. Gold vs City of Miami (wherein they DID set aside the cop's immunity and ripped them a new arsehole, financially), City of Houston vs Hill, there are any number of other precedents. The Florida Supreme Court has basically started ruling every "disorderly conduct" case involving cops being cussed at as being freedom of speech without even reviewing it, and occasionally they let the plaintiff rip the cops a new one.

It should happen every time. If enough cops ate a personal financial loss over this sort of thing, they'd be a bit more wary about that.

reply to post by butcherguy

I have flipped off cops before. These cases have been taken to courts and the cops lose. First amendment trumps cops wishes of having the public kowtow to them.

And where did that get you in life? A false sense of power and freedom? LoL. Liberalism at its finest.

Pit bull type dogs are illegal in Miami-Dade and Daytona. Something to think about.

The police were way out of line in their response but things could've been handled differently had the kid not cooperated. ANd he probably didn't want to cooperate because he had an illegal animal in his possession.

Don't threaten wild Florida pigs, they charge when they get scared and boy do they scare easily. Oink Oink.

reply to post by Bedlam

The Florida Supreme Court has basically started ruling every "disorderly conduct" case involving cops being cussed at as being freedom of speech without even reviewing it, and occasionally they let the plaintiff rip the cops a new one.

Great! Well enjoy your law. Go cuss a cop today. Excellent karma. Does wonders for civilization.

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I have flipped off cops before. These cases have been taken to courts and the cops lose. First amendment trumps cops wishes of having the public kowtow to them.

And where did that get you in life? A false sense of power and freedom? LoL. Liberalism at its finest.

I am conservative in most social issues, but I am libertarian at heart.
Yes, freedom is important to me. If it isn't important to you, and you want to have that cop's boot across your neck, have happy fun with that.
I have known a lot of cops personally in my life so far, some have been close friends, others are/were my relatives. So what I know about cops is first hand and a lot of it isn't what the public sees. My take is that most of them are bad in some way or another.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


You are a complete idiot if you believe that this incident should have resulted in felony charges and a 14 year old in a choke hold. I can agree that many young people today have issues with authority figures and plain old respect however it incidents just as this one that brought this attitude on. There is video of the incident as well, perhaps you should watch as two grown men use a sometimes lethal choke hold on a 14 year old child for playing in the water.

There was a time that "beat" cops worked neighborhoods and knew not only parents but the kids and respect was a three way street. This may no longer be possible in today's environment however community policing policy do still apply. Perhaps if instead of involving themselves to the point where the child was confused for being told to stop fighting when it was harmless horseplay the officers could have stopped and introduced themselves and asked if there was a problem.

This kid was unarmed and could not have posed any threat what so ever to police officers who are armed. if they felt threatened then they should be looking for another job. This is so far over reaching that there should be people held accountable and I am not talking about a 14 year old being charged with a felony fo rough housing on the beach

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by Bedlam

 

The Florida Supreme Court has basically started ruling every "disorderly conduct" case involving cops being cussed at as being freedom of speech without even reviewing it, and occasionally they let the plaintiff rip the cops a new one.

Great! Well enjoy your law. Go cuss a cop today. Excellent karma. Does wonders for civilization.

Hell, I'll go further. I think the paramilitary gear is a part of the issue. Put them all in something less aggressive looking and see how it works. Pink would be a nice color.

reply to post by butcherguy

Yes, freedom is important to me. If it isn't important to you, and you want to have that cop's boot across your neck, have happy fun with that.

A decent cop wouldn't want to do that, because I mind my own business and don't try to act like a badass to impress my friends, which was probably the case with this story.

reply to post by Bedlam

Hell, I'll go further. I think the paramilitary gear is a part of the issue. Put them all in something less aggressive looking and see how it works. Pink would be a nice color.

I just read this and pictured what 'The Andy Griffith Show' would been like with Sheriff Andy Taylor wearing combat gear while strolling down the sidewalk in Mayberry.

It wouldn't work, would it?

reply to post by DJMSN

You are a complete idiot if you believe that this incident should have resulted in felony charges and a 14 year old in a choke hold. I can agree that many young people today have issues with authority figures and plain old respect

I didn't say anything about charges. I think the cops and the kid should have both been respectful, but that isn't always the case with human nature. And now you want to throw around the word 'idiot' because my opinion doesn't match yours. Yes, respect is indeed the issue with the entire human race, IMO.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

A decent cop

There would be the problem.
There aren't many of those around.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


sorry buddy but this was a grown man intimidated by a child we expect police to always show professionalism no matter what they deal with everyday nothing can justify his actions if said actions are true