If you are against gays, consider this

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
reply to post by Helious

 

Actually, that falls on you.
Prove to me why they don't deserve to have children.

Oh, wait...............YOU CAN'T

edit on 5/30/13 by TokiTheDestroyer because: (no reason given)

Sure I can, because they can't produce them. Unless they beg, petition and blowhorn the state to ALLOW them to do it. Sure, thats what free people do, beg the state to allow them to do something because they really deserve it.

That only applies to one gender. Gay women only need a sperm doner or bank. And to still be of a fertile age.

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
reply to post by Helious

 

Bigoted non-answer. Try again.

Destroyer of words, meet The Destroyer.

You talk about non answers.... Scroll up, you haven't provided any basis at all for your argument besides calling me names. That's what it always comes to with this conversation because it is so fundamentally obvious that petitioning for gay rights crosses the line at demanding the "right" to adopt children.

It's completely ridiculous and the only argument, at least the only one that doesn't make you look like a blowhard who is seeking slaps on the back from what you perceive is a pro gay venue is name calling and deflection.

Your assertion that everyone is equal does not fall on deaf ears. I support that premise and moreover live the ideal but that starts and ends with adults. Children are another matter and supporting gay adoption based on your arguments is irresponsible because your arguments are based on a fallacy that we live in never never land.

Originally posted by snowspirit

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
reply to post by Helious

 

Actually, that falls on you.
Prove to me why they don't deserve to have children.

Oh, wait...............YOU CAN'T

edit on 5/30/13 by TokiTheDestroyer because: (no reason given)

Sure I can, because they can't produce them. Unless they beg, petition and blowhorn the state to ALLOW them to do it. Sure, thats what free people do, beg the state to allow them to do something because they really deserve it.

That only applies to one gender. Gay women only need a sperm doner or bank. And to still be of a fertile age.

Then great, go out, pretend to like men, get knocked up, leave him and get with your girlfriend and raise the kid. Or go to the sperm bank and do it that way, does that make it seem more "normal" or make the argument more valid or does it make it seem just little more disturbing?

Originally posted by Helious
Great for you. Homosexual couples have no rights to children. None at all. Please explain why they do.....

Humans in general should all be treated as equals, that has absolutely no bearing on who is fit to raise children, it only covers individual adults. You are misinformed, a bleeding heart and are thinking with the wrong part of your body.

Your idea of utopia not withstanding, show me legal, factual or credible reasons why it is ok to dish out kids to gay couples who could not ever have them naturally. Then, please further explain in detail how that may effect the child and what studies have been done to confirm it will cause no damage. Thanks.

The whole utopia thing sounds great though, I agree, I wish I would have been alive for woodstock, I could use more hugs..........

edit on 30-5-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

Why does it fall on me to provide the evidence to support this claim, if you honestly want me to take you seriously you had better come up with something other than here-say, conjecture and mild personal attacks.
I can not provide you with any of this just as you can not provide me with any, because there isn't any evidence to support either my or your claims, I'm just possess the common sense and rational to determine that this is an idiotic debate deeply rooted in peoples irrational fear of what they do not understand or know. Your views are outdated, gay people make fine parents, try and keep up.

Scroll up, you haven't provided any basis at all for your argument besides calling me names.

I'm gonna need some evidence that I called you names.
Would like some of that information you (don't) have about children raised by LGBT couples, too.

www.independent.co.uk...

gaylife.about.com...

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu...

www.livescience.com...

www.apa.org...

You wanted facts here you go.

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer

Originally posted by Helious
Great for you. Homosexual couples have no rights to children. None at all. Please explain why they do.....

Humans in general should all be treated as equals, that has absolutely no bearing on who is fit to raise children, it only covers individual adults. You are misinformed, a bleeding heart and are thinking with the wrong part of your body.

Your idea of utopia not withstanding, show me legal, factual or credible reasons why it is ok to dish out kids to gay couples who could not ever have them naturally. Then, please further explain in detail how that may effect the child and what studies have been done to confirm it will cause no damage. Thanks.

The whole utopia thing sounds great though, I agree, I wish I would have been alive for woodstock, I could use more hugs..........

edit on 30-5-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

Why does it fall on me to provide the evidence to support this claim, if you honestly want me to take you seriously you had better come up with something other than here-say, conjecture and mild personal attacks.
I can not provide you with any of this just as you can not provide me with any, because there isn't any evidence to support either of my claims, I'm just possess the common sense and rational to determine that this is an idiotic debate deeply rooted in peoples irrational fear of what they do not understand or know. Your views are outdated, gay people make fine parents, try and keep up.

The asking for evidence was rhetorical because there isn't any. You can't provide one good reason why homosexual couples should be allowed to petition, badger and demand the state to turn over children that were born to hedrosexual parents.

Further, you can not provide any study, data or evidence that this practice is in the best interest of the children. My data, my validation, my evidence comes from hundreds of thousands of years of propagation of the human species and does not rely on government lobbying.

Keep calling me bigot, keep calling me names that distort what I claim in my avatar, keep doing whatever it is you need to do to deflect the fact that your argument is DoA and non existent. You base your points on ideas, lofty ones at that and not on anything that carries weight or merit. Your strategy is to attack the perception and not the logic, to be a forum magician and hero by striking down the nasty poster who violates your utopian views.

We would all like the world to be a better place, I'll be first in line for that when it comes but the reality is that gay rights start and end with adults and children that were born into this world between a man and woman have no business with homosexual couples because the state said it's ok. That's not validation in most people eyes. Take a look at the world around you, it's not a good argument to say because the government said it is ok then it is rightfully, morally and divinely justified.

Originally posted by Helious
We would all like the world to be a better place, I'll be first in line for that when it comes but the reality is that gay rights start and end with adults and children that were born into this world between a man and woman have no business with homosexual couples because the state said it's ok. That's not validation in most people eyes. Take a look at the world around you, it's not a good argument to say because the government said it is ok then it is rightfully, morally and divinely justified.

edit on 30-5-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

First of all, this thread is about gay teen suicide and homelessness, not gay adoption.

Secondly, there are a number of gay people who have sired children through what you would call 'natural' processes.

So what? Some gay people have kids. Get over it.

If you don't want your kids adopted by gay parents, don't put them up for adoption

reply to post by markosity1973


You know what, I shouldn't of been in this thread any way and I know better. disregard my posts as it pertains to replys, I'm leaving this thread and not coming back, that goes for any other threads that resemble this. I'm sorry I posted in the first place, carry on.

reply to post by Helious


In the exact same turn, how ever little evidence to support my argument there is, there is equally as little to support yours and however DoA my argument is, yours is doubly so.
There is no reason to believe that being raised by two dads would be harmful to the child, to believe such a thing is puerile. You claim you want equality but you don't want those darn, dirty gays touching the children. You don't want equality, you want your vision of equality. (HINT: It's not very equal)
OH, and your observational data over the past hundreds of thousands of years or however long is largely irrelevant because the only thing it proves is that humans procreate, not how well humans that are unable to procreate raise children.

And for the record, calling you a bigot (which I did not do) and saying that you gave a bigoted non-answer (which I did do) are two entirely separate things, the latter of which is not a personal attack by any stretch of the imagination. Please do try and keep up.

Gays should be allowed to marry. That's their right. Leave them be in that case.

Now, if you want to discuss two homosexual males raising an adopted MALE child.

NO. NO. NO.

Hell, even a female child, but there would be less of a chance of her getting her genitals toyed with.

*Everyone*

To get this thread back on track, I am going to start a memorial wall for those you may have known that have been lost to suicide.

On it, simply list the first name of the person, they year and / or how old they were when they were lost. Feel free to add a tribute to them too.

I will start with my list;

Phillip, you were just 16 but in your short life you shone brightly. You were the captain of our school's rugby team and the dux of our school. You will always be remembered by me for who you were, a kind decent person and the best of friends. If only I had known you were gay before you took your life.....

Stephen. You were only 17 but the whole school mourned when you left us. Even though I never knew you personally, you were so liked by so many, Those who vilified you and drove you to take your life live with the shame to this day.

Love how mainly americans seem to keep sticking the knife into african americans by likening there plight to sexual perverts.......thats not passive racist at all!

Originally posted by surfin4
Love how mainly americans seem to keep sticking the knife into african americans by likening there plight to sexual perverts.......thats not passive racist at all!

What on earth do you mean by that?

Originally posted by surfin4
Love how mainly americans seem to keep sticking the knife into african americans by likening there plight to sexual perverts.......thats not passive racist at all!

Wait a sec.........WHAT????

So anyone using more than a single example of bigotry as a reference is actually an act of bigotry to one of those examples??? I am understanding you correctly???

Please explain more....

BTW, nobody was talking about Sexual Perverts either. They were talking about Homosexuals. Or are those two classifications just the same thing to you???

Originally posted by surfin4
Love how mainly americans seem to keep sticking the knife into african americans by likening there plight to sexual perverts.......thats not passive racist at all!

Ok, well here's a tricky one for ya then.

If I was to make a reference to how the White Male Dominated Culture has repressed the rights of both African Americans, and Women as pertains to their right to vote, would that be Passively Racist or Passively Sexist??

Or is it simply just me referencing something factual within our history for the sake of conversation???

"Passive Racist"...... Okay.....whatever man.....

I didn't use to be against gays but lately I've been giving it some serious consideration.

Not only gays commit suicide, not only gay people are ostracized by their families and left homeless. It should be as equally sad when a gay human offs the self just as a straight person again it should be as sad when either is left homeless. It should be as sad when either are murdered because we all know that when one murders they do so with hate and malice in their heart.
So why is it only a "hate crime" when its committed against gays? Why is it not as important to bring the murderer to justice?

I'm tired of it. I was for equal everything, marriage and adoption. I once got in a fight at a Dennys sticking up for my gay friend, I once would have walked for equal rights for you all..... not no more.

Until gays think my straight family is as important as theirs as loving and as good. Until you all feel anything for anyone other than yourselves and you gay community. Until you get just as outraged by the murder of a straight man as you do a gay one and start demanding that humans in general be better to everyone and not just cater to you... well until then I'm going to stop caring about what the hell you guys are going through too.


The world doesn't revolve around gays.

Originally posted by brandiwine14
I didn't use to be against gays but lately I've been giving it some serious consideration.

Not only gays commit suicide, not only gay people are ostracized by their families and left homeless. It should be as equally sad when a gay human offs the self just as a straight person again it should be as sad when either is left homeless. It should be as sad when either are murdered because we all know that when one murders they do so with hate and malice in their heart.
So why is it only a "hate crime" when its committed against gays? Why is it not as important to bring the murderer to justice?

I'm tired of it. I was for equal everything, marriage and adoption. I once got in a fight at a Dennys sticking up for my gay friend, I once would have walked for equal rights for you all..... not no more.

Until gays think my straight family is as important as theirs as loving and as good. Until you all feel anything for anyone other than yourselves and you gay community. Until you get just as outraged by the murder of a straight man as you do a gay one and start demanding that humans in general be better to everyone and not just cater to you... well until then I'm going to stop caring about what the hell you guys are going through too.


The world doesn't revolve around gays.

Firstly, you are entitled to your opinion, but let me make myself crystal clear.

Any person lost to suicide or becomes homeless is a tragedy and the shame belongs to greater society.

However it remains a fact that gay people are over represented in these areas. I can also look with my own country at issues like indigenous health and state that the first people of our country are over represented in having short lives.

We as gay people do care about the greater community. I would greatly care about you and your family if we were mates.

Facts are facts and I apologise if they make you feel uncomfortable. But people need to know this stuff, these gay youth are coming from straight homes. It is the straight community that needs to act to stop this from happening. The same thing applies to straight teens who commit suicide - those issues need to be addressed too.

Originally posted by WaterBottle
People that hate gay people are simply not very intelligent.

Bigotry is associated with low IQ's.

I would argue it's more a sign of ignorance and/or closed-mindedness as opposed to an individual's level of intelligence. It might be tempting to find a correlation between stupidity and bigotry, but when you do that you automatically underestimate your opponent, which is not a clever thing to do.

Sad yet true, as i mentioned in the other topic for being relatively young (early twenties) i have gone through what most, some, any, consider 'Tragic life' all because of my Sexuality, i wont go into details because others have had same, similar, and worse experiences,

as stated we are not trying to say this issue is superior to others, you are right, it should never be an issue a'tall, we should be afforded equal rights and privileges because we are Human as you are Human,