How many of you are really prepared for the Dog Eat Dog society you relish and preach on this site?

reply to post by Bone75


Ah, I see now. Please, read some George Orwell, quickly! Your concept would be completely corrupted before the end of the first 3 day work week. By week 2 the swine would be residing in the farmhouse and wearing clothes and the inner party would be passing out small bottle of rubbing alcohol quality victory gin to the workers.

Originally posted by 2ndthought

And yet you still have a ruling class. Who decides who does what job. Who decides where people live? Who decides if you really DO get those resources to do whatever you want

Like it or not, we will always have a ruling class. If you can come up with a model that eliminates the need for one... I'm all ears. The trick is to actually start giving a damn who the ruling class is and holding them accountable according to the law. A society that has the freedom I'm proposing will be much more responsible in this regard than the one we have now.

I'm assuming that without money, everyone would have free housing, food, etc. What happens when the doctors get jealous of the janitor for receiving the exact same benefits? What happens when those that work harder don't get the recognition they feel they deserve? What happens when some decide to not work, because they get everything for free anyway?

Doctors will start at the bottom of their sector just like everyone else. The man or woman who cleans the hospital is just as (if not more) important as the ones performing surgeries in my opinion.

I tend to work harder than those around me because that's just the way I am. If I could pay my bills with compliments and pats on the back I would be a very rich man. Unfortunately in today's world recognition is simply a pacifier until you find an employer that's willing to pay you a little bit more, but not enough to change your life. You know it and so do the rest of us.

Those who decide not to work will be rehabilitated.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Bone75

 

Here's why that model equals epic failure:
I'm an engineer by profession. I enjoy engineering immensely and I am very good at what I do (not bragging, just stating a fact). I can't think of any other profession I'm better qualified for and would enjoy doing and make the same level of income at than engineering. Take money out of the equation? Fuggettaboudit, I'm out the door. As much as I enjoy engineering, there are many hobbies I enjoy far more, any of which I could easily justify turning into a career if economics were removed from the picture. I could easily tie flies for 3 days a week and never once wish I was elsewhere. I could be a hunting or fishing guide for 3 days a week with equal ease. I could be a commercial fisherman. I could make woodcarvings. I could build furniture. I could make lures. I could reload ammunition. I could draw. I could taxidermy. I could work with leather. I could be a metal guitar player. I could make jerky. I could make welded metal artwork. I could be an outdoor gear tester. I could work on trucks. I could write books. These are all things I currently do in my free time that others do today as their source of income, because the money they make from these passions is adequate for their situation in life whereas it is inadequate for my current situation in life.

Mankind must have a tangible benefit from their gainfull labor other than just warm fuzzies and a feeling of accomplishment. Take away the benefit (money) and suddenly we have a world in which nobody takes out the trash, cleans toilets, works as a roughneck in the oil fields, harvests crops for more than just his own family and friends, or, dare I say it, designs highways and transportation facilities for the community. Instead everyone will simply turn their passionate hobbies into their careers, because the only benefit they are seeking is personal happiness and satisfaction. THAT is the nature of mankind and nature doesn't change, regardless of how many times KumBaiYa is sung out of tune around a communal campfire.

Our workforce will be divided into sectors...

Food
Energy
Construction
Healthcare
Manufacturing
Transportation
Mining

Each sector will have its own engineering, education, and childcare departments. We will conduct a survey in which every able bodied man and woman will choose one primary sector to work in and 2 alternate sectors. The overall goal of each sector will be to collectively reduce the workload within that sector. Those who contribute the most to this goal are rewarded with time rather than money.

Being an engineer, you would already have a headstart on the rest of us. The hobbies you listed are just that... hobbies. If you'd like to be a hunting or fishing guide in your free time, then have at it. But consider this... what could they give you in return that wouldn't already be available to you?

So ... Agenda 21. Automatons. Everyone in color coded jumpsuits. Moving like lemmings thru their sector.

No thanks. I'll take this reality, warts and all.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Bone75

 

Ah, I see now. Please, read some George Orwell, quickly! Your concept would be completely corrupted before the end of the first 3 day work week. By week 2 the swine would be residing in the farmhouse and wearing clothes and the inner party would be passing out small bottle of rubbing alcohol quality victory gin to the workers.

I will make time to read some Orwell as I am a very open-minded person. Do you have any suggestions on where I should start?

Alcohol would fall under the category of hobbies just like all other non-medicinal drugs. I wouldn't make them illegal, but I also wouldn't require someone to produce them. Grow your own, brew your own, knock yourself out.

Maybe you could trade your hunting and fishing skills for alcohol.

Originally posted by 2ndthought

So ... Agenda 21. Automatons. Everyone in color coded jumpsuits. Moving like lemmings thru their sector.

No thanks. I'll take this reality, warts and all.

That's just silly. I completely understand though. You've been conditioned to think this way. I'm telling you that we can all retire at 50 or sooner, with no debt or motivation to commit 90% of the crimes we are subject to now, and you're telling me that you would rather continue living the way we are. That's the definition of insanity if you ask me.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by 2ndthought

So ... Agenda 21. Automatons. Everyone in color coded jumpsuits. Moving like lemmings thru their sector.

No thanks. I'll take this reality, warts and all.

That's just silly. I completely understand though. You've been conditioned to think this way. I'm telling you that we can all retire at 50 or sooner, with no debt or motivation to commit 90% of the crimes we are subject to now, and you're telling me that you would rather continue living the way we are. That's the definition of insanity if you ask me.

I'm sorry, but I see your world as insane. And as burdman states, destined to failure, on many levels. There's no such place as Nirvana.

Originally posted by 2ndthought

I'm sorry, but I see your world as insane. And as burdman states, destined to failure, on many levels. There's no such place as Nirvana.

No need to apologize. As I've already stated, I understand why you think the way you do. Look around you. Your world is already in the process of failing. There is absolutely no way whatsoever we are going to simply vote our way out of this mess.

Do you have any idea where that rock on your wife's finger came from? How about the shoes on your feet or 90% of the products you purchase from Walmart? Do you even care? Should I post a few pics in order to give you all a reality check? Would you like to know how many innocent men, women, and children WE have slaughtered over the last 10 years in Iraq and Afghanistan alone just to support this not-so-lavish lifestyle we're living?

reply to post by Bone75


I see. If at first you don't succeed, point to a lack of intelligence, then a lack of empathy, then play the guilt trip card.

Have a good night.

Originally posted by 2ndthought
reply to post by Bone75

 

I see. If at first you don't succeed, point to a lack of intelligence, then a lack of empathy, then play the guilt trip card.

Have a good night.

I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to plant seeds. Your responses are indicative to the fact that I have succeeded with every post. You may not agree with me now, but soon we will all be given a choice between 2 systems. One benefits the global elites, the other benefits us. I have no doubt that you are intelligent enough to make the right choice when forced to do so.
Whether or not you're brave enough is where I worry.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by 2ndthought

And yet you still have a ruling class. Who decides who does what job. Who decides where people live? Who decides if you really DO get those resources to do whatever you want

Like it or not, we will always have a ruling class. If you can come up with a model that eliminates the need for one... I'm all ears. The trick is to actually start giving a damn who the ruling class is and holding them accountable according to the law. A society that has the freedom I'm proposing will be much more responsible in this regard than the one we have now.

I'm assuming that without money, everyone would have free housing, food, etc. What happens when the doctors get jealous of the janitor for receiving the exact same benefits? What happens when those that work harder don't get the recognition they feel they deserve? What happens when some decide to not work, because they get everything for free anyway?

Doctors will start at the bottom of their sector just like everyone else. The man or woman who cleans the hospital is just as (if not more) important as the ones performing surgeries in my opinion.

I tend to work harder than those around me because that's just the way I am. If I could pay my bills with compliments and pats on the back I would be a very rich man. Unfortunately in today's world recognition is simply a pacifier until you find an employer that's willing to pay you a little bit more, but not enough to change your life. You know it and so do the rest of us.

Those who decide not to work will be rehabilitated.

Really? The guy who cracks your chest open and keep s you alive is the equivalent of the janitor? LOL.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
[
Really? The guy who cracks your chest open and keep s you alive is the equivalent of the janitor? LOL.

With out the janitor to clean up then the person who chest has been cracked open will most likely die of infection.

Without the support team that surgeon has less time to save more lifes.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by 2ndthought

So ... Agenda 21. Automatons. Everyone in color coded jumpsuits. Moving like lemmings thru their sector.

No thanks. I'll take this reality, warts and all.

That's just silly. I completely understand though. You've been conditioned to think this way. I'm telling you that we can all retire at 50 or sooner, with no debt or motivation to commit 90% of the crimes we are subject to now, and you're telling me that you would rather continue living the way we are. That's the definition of insanity if you ask me.

He is quite correct. That is the natural and realistic result of your "utopia."

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Bone75

 

Ah, I see now. Please, read some George Orwell, quickly! Your concept would be completely corrupted before the end of the first 3 day work week. By week 2 the swine would be residing in the farmhouse and wearing clothes and the inner party would be passing out small bottle of rubbing alcohol quality victory gin to the workers.

I will make time to read some Orwell as I am a very open-minded person. Do you have any suggestions on where I should start?

Alcohol would fall under the category of hobbies just like all other non-medicinal drugs. I wouldn't make them illegal, but I also wouldn't require someone to produce them. Grow your own, brew your own, knock yourself out.

Maybe you could trade your hunting and fishing skills for alcohol.

edit on 31-5-2013 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)

You haven't read Orwell and you pretend to know what is going on and what is right? Talk about ignorance. Who, outside a high school student has not read Orwell?

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by NavyDoc
[
Really? The guy who cracks your chest open and keep s you alive is the equivalent of the janitor? LOL.

With out the janitor to clean up then the person who chest has been cracked open will most likely die of infection.

Without the support team that surgeon has less time to save more lifes.

edit on 1-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

You took the words right out of my mouth. Not to mention... how many people have had tweezers and scissors sewn inside of them by spoiled little rich kids that have no business being a doctor?

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by NavyDoc
[
Really? The guy who cracks your chest open and keep s you alive is the equivalent of the janitor? LOL.

With out the janitor to clean up then the person who chest has been cracked open will most likely die of infection.

Without the support team that surgeon has less time to save more lifes.

edit on 1-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

You took the words right out of my mouth. Not to mention... how many people have had tweezers and scissors sewn inside of them by spoiled little rich kids that have no business being a doctor?

Dont get me started on rich kids who get med degrees and then go on to cock up.

I have spotted and saved 3 people from one single doctor alone who couldnt be botherd to check drug interactions. How they got a med degree boogles my mind. And the ironic thing if they screw up they are luckly to get a slap on the wrist at most. I screw up in the lab I loose my job and get blackmarked.

reply to post by NavyDoc

You'll have to forgive my ignorance. He's not exactly required reading in the world of self education. A good thing by the sounds of it.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by 2ndthought
reply to post by Bone75

 

I see. If at first you don't succeed, point to a lack of intelligence, then a lack of empathy, then play the guilt trip card.

Have a good night.

I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to plant seeds. Your responses are indicative to the fact that I have succeeded with every post. You may not agree with me now, but soon we will all be given a choice between 2 systems. One benefits the global elites, the other benefits us. I have no doubt that you are intelligent enough to make the right choice when forced to do so.
Whether or not you're brave enough is where I worry.

Do you honestly believe, in your dream world, that people will be happy on a completely equal footing?

No worries about that roof over their heads, no worries about the next meal, will eventually lead to no desire to compete. No competition, even if only against their own abilities, will lead to no innovation. No innovation will lead to no progress.

Not to mention apathy. No desire. Why bother to better yourself, if there's nothing in it?

And you say their goal would be to eventually automate everything, giving themselves more and more free time. Could you see a world that eventually is completely automated, with nothing for humans to do but ... play? Those humans would be redundant. Would the machines decide they don't need us? Terminator come to life...

We need people better than us to look up to. People that we can strive to become. People that we admire or hate, to challenge us to become better than we are. Without the Jones to keep up with, society would languish. Eventually civilization would languish itself into obscurity.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by NavyDoc
[
Really? The guy who cracks your chest open and keep s you alive is the equivalent of the janitor? LOL.

With out the janitor to clean up then the person who chest has been cracked open will most likely die of infection.

Without the support team that surgeon has less time to save more lifes.

edit on 1-6-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

ANd the surgeon is the one who knows how to do the work and is trained in it and experienced in it and to compare him to a janitor is rather idiotic.

Originally posted by 2ndthought

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by 2ndthought
reply to post by Bone75

 

I see. If at first you don't succeed, point to a lack of intelligence, then a lack of empathy, then play the guilt trip card.

Have a good night.

I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to plant seeds. Your responses are indicative to the fact that I have succeeded with every post. You may not agree with me now, but soon we will all be given a choice between 2 systems. One benefits the global elites, the other benefits us. I have no doubt that you are intelligent enough to make the right choice when forced to do so.
Whether or not you're brave enough is where I worry.

Do you honestly believe, in your dream world, that people will be happy on a completely equal footing?

No worries about that roof over their heads, no worries about the next meal, will eventually lead to no desire to compete. No competition, even if only against their own abilities, will lead to no innovation. No innovation will lead to no progress.

Not to mention apathy. No desire. Why bother to better yourself, if there's nothing in it?

And you say their goal would be to eventually automate everything, giving themselves more and more free time. Could you see a world that eventually is completely automated, with nothing for humans to do but ... play? Those humans would be redundant. Would the machines decide they don't need us? Terminator come to life...

We need people better than us to look up to. People that we can strive to become. People that we admire or hate, to challenge us to become better than we are. Without the Jones to keep up with, society would languish. Eventually civilization would languish itself into obscurity.

I think that is not fully true.

For example; EVERY single band you see works for years playing music without money or the promise of money.

The people who innovate, do so because they have passion that transcends money.

Originally posted by Bone75
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

You'll have to forgive my ignorance. He's not exactly required reading in the world of self education. A good thing by the sounds of it.

Ah, "self education." There we have it folks.