Islamophobes.

I am by no means religious, I don't hate religion. I don't like religion either. I just think if you removed it from history you would save alot of lives. Granted you would probably extinguish alot too whom were saved by missionaries in times of troubles and what not. But something is really underneath my skin about them all lately and it is Islamophobes.

Nobody is perfect, from day 0 to the final day every single last one of us share this world. To mock something that has withstood such a long test of test of time simply because their people's logic are much different than many parts of the world's peoples are imo no reason to fear, but than again let's have more turmoil and less getting along, right... RIGHT?!

Islam has it flaws and really needs to stop some of those flaws, there is a much more human way of handling such things I know! I would never go to a Sharia law country willingly nor most places where Islamic Muslims gather it is just asking for what history is bound to repeat, trouble.

But I do not despise because I would be cast out and stoned or whatever they are horribly doing these days. I do not despise because to me most Muslims are weird or smell funny (not that I am a peach either.) I don't despise because their views seem to call for a war agaisn't the infidels. That is for them decide and imo either horribly fail or set a new standard for it's followers. It's just history progressing itself as if it is gonna change because one more person has a conflicting view.

The Muslims view honour killings as legitimate and necessary in their soceity and they get condemned for it more often than not. Do they condemn others outside their religion whenever another drunk one does what drunks do worst? What I am trying to say is it is all vice versa, whats right to one is wrong to the other, what's wrong to the other is right to one.

Well, f-it! Flame on.

Originally posted by beautyofperil
To mock something that has withstood such a long test of test of time simply because their people's logic are much different

Bit of a straw man here.
I dont think you'll actually find anyone who has "islamophobia" because of their "logic".

Originally posted by beautyofperil
... because their views seem to call for a war agaisn't the infidels.

Yeah, mostly its this.

reply to post by alfa1


Again that is for them to decide for the progress of history, don't like it, turn off the t.v.. Want to change it try and do better yourself! They are a very proud people and I am entirely sure not all Muslims are alike and each side has their war mongers.

btw does Joan of Arc mean anything to you? I don't see Islam burning saints at the stake. I guess children get a tough break and all I know
I am not siding with any of them crazy religions nor am I am condoning anything of the sort of what they do, I just want to address that butting heads like this that these people do is only making the world worse.

Contemplate this:

'Islamophobes' get their way and get thier 'infidels' rather than vice versa , is it really different than the other way around other the colour of skin/views of religion of the aggresor?

reply to post by beautyofperil

And yet again, Mr. Confusion is back. I don't know why I have such difficulty understanding things today. Well, let me try to explore this.

I must have overlooked your definition of "Islamophobes." It's not a scientifically meaningful term and seems to have been invented to piggy-back on "Homophobes," a term wildly successful in attacking opponents of homosexuality. Does it mean people who mock Islam? If so, we should have "Politicianphobes," Establishmentphobes," "Tree-huggerphobes," etc. Mockery is a widely distributed attitude in this world, and we've learned to live with it.

Is an "Islamophobe" someone who despises Islam? Let's assume, for the moment, that people who despise Islam exist. Wouldn't it make sense to find out whether Islam should be despised? If it should, then those who despise it would be correct and sane, not suffering from a phobia.

To mock something that has withstood such a long test of test of time simply because their people's logic are much different than many parts of the world's peoples are imo no reason to fear

I've never heard of anyone mocking Islam because its followers have a different logic. There are people on ATS who have such a different logic that it is entirely unrecognizable, but nobody really cares, it doesn't harm anyone. I believe people are worried because of what the "logic" of Islam compels people to do.

I would never go to a Sharia law country willingly nor most places where Islamic Muslims gather it is just asking for what history is bound to repeat, trouble.

Forgive me, but that sounds like you are afraid of Islam, or Islamic countries. Are you an Islamophobe?

Do they condemn others outside their religion whenever another drunk one does what drunks do worst?

Yes, they do. Muslims routinely condemn the West for what is seen as immodesty among women, smoking and drinking, even Rock music. They've killed people outside of their religion who drew cartoons of Muhammad. They attck people in Europe who are publicly not following Islamic standards.

I don't despise because their views seem to call for a war agaisn't the infidels. That is for them decide and imo either horribly fail or set a new standard for it's followers.

I'm really confused here. If Iran decided to wage war against the Infidels, I agree that's their call, but I would also feel perfectly free to despise that call, and bomb them to the point they couldn't even speak the word "War."

What I am trying to say is it is all vice versa, whats right to one is wrong to the other, what's wrong to the other is right to one.

Forgive me, but total moral relativism scares the pants off me. If no one can say that something is right or wrong, there is no reason to take any action at all, except to satisfy our personal desires.

I will staunchly uphold my right to say that killing civilians for no other reason than their differing religion is wrong, and should be stopped, even if force is required.

reply to post by charles1952


Great post, Charles. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Fact: Muslims ARE killing people in the name of their god.
Fact: Muslims ARE manipulating free societies to bend to their will.

Facts don't make phobias.

reply to post by jiggerj


I did not create the word, sorry I was all over the place. I try again. It's the prejudice nature of these 'Islamopobes' who despise the whole of the people. I was just saying enough is enough for both sides and elaborating on it,

Forgive me, but that sounds like you are afraid of Islam, or Islamic countries. Are you an Islamophobe?

I already answered that, in your very quote I guess I am a troublephobe.

Yes, they do. Muslims routinely condemn the West for what is seen as immodesty among women, smoking and drinking, even Rock music. They've killed people outside of their religion who drew cartoons of Muhammad. They attck people in Europe who are publicly not following Islamic standards.

I firmly believe those people went out of their way to ask for it probably more than half the time, but yes their intolerance to woman's right is in my mind retarded, but that is their reality! Their is alot of Muslims around here and ain't no condemning going on here, unfortunately Europe probably sees alot more of the criminal element of the lot. And the west only just recently gave woman rights btw so it is not like we are the best har-bringers after all those thousands of years.

I'm really confused here. If Iran decided to wage war against the Infidels, I agree that's their call, but I would also feel perfectly free to despise that call, and bomb them to the point they couldn't even speak the word "War."

What are you confused about than, you seem pretty sure.

Forgive me, but total moral relativism scares the pants off me. If no one can say that something is right or wrong, there is no reason to take any action at all, except to satisfy our personal desires. I will staunchly uphold my right to say that killing civilians for no other reason than their differing religion is wrong, and should be stopped, even if force is required.

Bottom line I have to say here is religion is no good, but their are good people with in the both of them too, good people who out weigh the bad. In the west we elect and stand behind the officials who kill thousands in the name of utter bs, ya because that is soooo much different and in reality our leaders are actually killing innocents in wars in lands they have no business in other than to steal, murder, rape, pillage, develop to illegal drug producing, burn, slaughter, warcrime, illegally invade, impose views at the end of a barrel and the list goes on and on but hey at least Osama was killed eventually aside from all that.

reply to post by jiggerj


Muslims? Here is a fact for you. This topic is Islamophobes.

Facts don't make Phobias? Why don't you try punching a cop in the nose, I betcha that fact will create a phobia for ya!

reply to post by jiggerj


I can never understand people who kill for their religion. Islam is a very large and diverse religion. However, we must not look the other way if Muslims are killing to kill themselves and others. Call me an Islamophobe or whatever politically term you can dash out. I'm critical of the way a lot of Muslims are acting today. Just like many Christians and dare I say some atheist. Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.

I think this may be relevant:

A top Vatican official has said around 100,000 Christians are killed every year for reasons linked to their faith and pointed to the Middle East, Africa and Asia as the biggest problem areas.

Monsignor Silvano Maria Tomasi was quoted by Vatican radio on Tuesday as saying that the figures were "shocking" and "incredible".

Tomasi said Christians were also forced to leave their homes and see their churches destroyed in some parts of the world, and were often subjected to rapes, kidnappings and discrimination.

The Vatican official made particular reference to the kidnapping of two Orthodox bishops near Aleppo in Syria last month.

Religious freedom is beset by "sectarianism, intolerance, terrorism and exclusionary laws," he said, while also pointing to exceptions like Bangladesh where he said rights are protected.

www.newsdaily.com...

I don't think they're being targeted by Buddhists or Orthodox Jews.

Originally posted by beautyofperil
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Muslims? Here is a fact for you. This topic is Islamophobes.

Facts don't make Phobias? Why don't you try punching a cop in the nose, I betcha that fact will create a phobia for ya!

edit on 28-5-2013 by beautyofperil because: (no reason given)

That makes no sense.

Tolerance of intolerance is cowardice.

reply to post by Phoenix267


Nice! That should be a world motto right now.

Originally posted by beautyofperil
This topic is Islamophobes. ]

Sorry but I couldn't follow your opening post ... and I'm wondering if you know what Islamophobes means. It means to have an irrational fear of Islam. But your post made it seem like the fear of Islam is not irrational. So I'm not sure what you are trying to say ...

OH ... and I fully agree with this post -

Originally posted by jiggerj
Fact: Muslims ARE killing people in the name of their god.
Fact: Muslims ARE manipulating free societies to bend to their will.
Facts don't make phobias.

If it's a fact that something is worthy of being afraid of then it's not a 'phobia' but instead is healthy. Natural fear of that which is harmful to you is healthy and it's evolutionary psychology. The fact that radical Islamics are killing and threatening and manipulating ... that's worthy of fear and isn't a phobia.

Maybe I can help in clearing up some stuff about islamophobia:

This is Islamophobia:

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Mecca is nothing but a "pagan" rock. Plant a Nuke in a building nearby, arm it, booby trap it, and move on folks. Let those "pagans" set it off trying to "disarm" it.

Let us not forget when "hamas" was inside the Church in Jerusalem a couple of years back. You know the one over where Christ was buried. We should have turned that "rock" into glass back then.

"Tolerance" is leting them and Mecca still exist in the first place.

This is Islamophobia:

Originally posted by vikingeric
Why are we pussy footing around with these rag heads? We should get together with the Israleis and attack all of the Muslim countries. Terrorists come from all of them. I would turn Mecca and Medina into the worlds two biggest parking lots

This is Islamophobia:

Originally posted by slackerwire
I can't think of any reason NOT to begin the systematic destruction of the people in the mideast. They have continually proven that they are very incapable of living peacefully in the 21st century due to their strong religious beliefs.

And that is just from putting in "nuke glass mecca" into the search field, I didn't even go into the more subtle stuff. Perhaps something less close to home? The recent Boston bombing brought a lot of the vermin out of the woodwork (another example of islamophobic thinking: the actions of one person who happens to be muslim is an example of all muslims everywhere).
This is Islamophobia:

www.chron.com...
Fatima Hye, 37, was attending a seminar for the annual film festival Saturday at Westchase Marriott when she was singled out by Hunter Todd, the festival's executive director, who asked to search her backpack. The reason, he later said, is that she was wearing traditional Muslim covering.

This is Islamophobia:
"She ought to be in prison for wearing a hijab."

This is Islamophobia:

Muslim Woman Harassed Near Malden Center
Malden resident Heba Abolaban said she and her friend, both wearing hijabs, were walking with their children on Commercial Street when a man forcefully punched her left shoulder and began shouting at them.

“He was screaming 'F___ you Muslims! You are terrorists! I hate you! You are involved in the Boston explosions! F___ you!'”

This is Islamophobia:

Thugs beat Bangladeshi man
A Bangladeshi man out for dinner at a Bronx restaurant was viciously beaten hours after the Boston Marathon bombing by thugs who called him “a f--king Arab” before pummeling him to the ground, sources said.
“One of the guys asked if I was Arab. I just shook my head, said like, ‘Yeah, whatever.’ I didn’t even know that Boston happened because I had a busy day,” Faruque said.

He turned to head back inside as one of the men snarled, “Yeah, he’s a f--king Arab,” and the gang pounced, punching him on the head and body, dislocating his left shoulder and leaving him semiconscious.

Perhaps this stuff is still a little too close to "home". There's still more examples if you need.
This is Islamophobia:

Report: French rail firm banned Muslims from working during Peres visit
France's national railway company banned its black and North African employees from working during President Shimon Peres' visit last month over fears they "might be Muslim," newspapers in Britain reported overnight Monday.

This is Islamophobia:

Knifeman ordered Bristol women to take off hijabs
Norris, who was brandishing a six-inch knife told her: "Take the hijab off. This is England, you are not allowed. Take the hijab off before I stab you."

He then pointed the blade at Miss Jama and put the blade to the left and right of her throat.

Later the same day Norris approached Iqbal Osman who was watching her four-year-old play in Barton Hill Urban Park.

Not to mention the totally religiously based attack (although not targetting muslims directly) of a certain figure in Norway a while back. Anyhow, perhaps something even further away?
This is Islamophobia:

Burmese Bin Laden
The monk, who describes himself as 'the Burmese Bin Laden' said that his militancy "is vital to counter aggressive expansion by Muslims".

He was arrested in 2003 for distributing anti-Muslim leaflets and has often stirred controversy over his Islamophobic activities, which include a call for the Rhohingya and "kalar", a pejorative term for Muslims of South Asian descent, to be expelled from Myanmar.

He has also been implicated in religious clashes in Mandalay, where a dozen people died, in several local reports.

Sectarian tension between Rakhine state's 800,000 Rohingya and their Arakanese Buddhist neighbours exploded in June 2012, after allegations that a gang of Rohingya men had raped an Arakanese woman.

The Muslims were lynched in response, sparking days of rioting. More than 200 people died and 100,000 Muslim were left homeless, if not displaced in concentration camps.

This is Islamophobia:

Region in Myanmar Limits Muslim Births
The local authorities in the western state of Rakhine in Myanmar have imposed a two-child limit for Muslim Rohingya families, a policy that does not apply to Buddhists in the area and comes amid accusations of ethnic cleansing during earlier sectarian violence.

This is Islamophobia:

Anti-Muslim campaign threatens renewed tensions in war-torn Sri Lanka
A red-robbed Buddhist monk calmly picked up stones and hurled them at a security camera. Then, as police looked on, his followers smashed up a popular, Muslim-owned clothing store.

Last month's attack on the Fashion Bug chain near Colombo, filmed by a local television station whose cameraman was attacked by the mob, was the most public outburst in a growing anti-Muslim campaign by Sri Lanka's Buddhist nationalist groups.

The popular and growing presumption of the non-existence of Islamophobia (which I'd venture to call a form of Islamophobia itself) has been patently and totally proven wrong. And conflations of Islamophobia with racism, as seen by these articles ("arabs", "blacks", "north-africans", and generally "brown people" being targeted, etc.) have been shown not to be false. Bigots are generally ignorant idiots, so they simplify things for themselves.

I have an interesting exercise for anyone who wishes to respond to my post here. Try doing so without attempting to "explain away" or "justify" or in such senses try to make what these people did okay. Because these actions, no matter how you cut it, are totally and absolutely wrong. Attaching "hot-headed" or "sensitive time" or "validly scared" or "drunk" or "insane loner madman" doesn't hand-wave away the problem, sorry.

If I said that the fearing of a black man you see on the street at night was justified, that would be bigoted. If I said that a black man might steal my bike because other black men stole other bikes, that would be bigoted. If I said that I shouldn't consider Mel Gibson's tirade against jews relevant because he's a drunk, that would be ridiculous. If I said that internment of hundreds of thousands of Japanese heritage american civilians was justified because of the situation, that'd also be stupid.

Excuses don't make bigotry okay.