Hey folks across the pond (uk) lets have a talk

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Argyll

 

Yes and they shoot herds of cows for target practice.

what?

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I noticed earlier in this thread a poster said that the police “shoot to kill” that is utter crap, UK police are trained to shoot for centre mass because this is less likely to cause collateral damage and will stop the perpetrator. The only exception to this that I know if is when Operation Kratos is in effect, that is to say when the police are faced with a suicide bomber they have authority to take head shots.

'Shoot-to-kill' policy to remain



Family reaction
Police leaders say they will not abandon their "shoot-to-kill" policy and warn more innocent people could be killed in the fight against terrorism.
The message came after Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot dead by officers in London after being mistaken for a suicide bomber.

Met Police Chief Sir Ian Blair said "shoot-to-kill in order to protect" would continue, despite the "tragedy".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Go tell poor Jean Charles that the shoot to kill policy is utter crap.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by Argyll

 

Yes and they shoot herds of cows for target practice.

what?

You think it is funny do you ?

Operation runaway cow: Four marksmen, eight police officers and five patrol cars to catch and gun down (after several misses) and unlikely fugitive•Police marksmen missed first shot but killed cow when they got closer
•Belgian Blue became 'distressed and aggressive' during three-hour ordeal
•Cow jumped over fences and charged at people, police said

By Paul Bentley
PUBLISHED: 17:05, 26 March 2013 | UPDATED: 12:34, 29 March 2013
Comments (510) Share
..

Two police marksmen with high-powered sniper rifles crouched on top of a van in the grounds of a primary school, shooting to kill.
In the car park lurked their target, cornered at last after a four-mile chase.
The target’s identity? One rather unfortunate Belgian Blue cow, who had wandered out of her field earlier in the day.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Children watch in horror as marksmen round up escaped cows in field next to hospital... and shoot them allBy Jaya Narain
UPDATED: 07:04, 15 March 2011
Comments (294) Share

..

Escaped farm animals slaughtered 'on welfare grounds'
Neighbouring hospital shuts curtains to block the sight
Children screamed in horror as a herd of 30 cows were shot dead after they escaped from a nearby field.
The group of youngsters- some aged just eight - were playing outside close to their homes when the animals were slaughtered.
Bosses at a nearby hospital even ordered all the curtains to be drawn so patients would not have to witness the upsetting carnage.


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...
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www.dailymail.co.uk...

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
I noticed earlier in this thread a poster said that the police “shoot to kill” that is utter crap, UK police are trained to shoot for centre mass because this is less likely to cause collateral damage and will stop the perpetrator. The only exception to this that I know if is when Operation Kratos is in effect, that is to say when the police are faced with a suicide bomber they have authority to take head shots.

'Shoot-to-kill' policy to remain



Family reaction
Police leaders say they will not abandon their "shoot-to-kill" policy and warn more innocent people could be killed in the fight against terrorism.
The message came after Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot dead by officers in London after being mistaken for a suicide bomber.

Met Police Chief Sir Ian Blair said "shoot-to-kill in order to protect" would continue, despite the "tragedy".

news.bbc.co.uk...

Go tell poor Jean Charles that the shoot to kill policy is utter crap.

You will notice that at the end I made mention of the policies under operation Kratos, that was the why the police (or possibly SRR) killed Jean Charles the way they did. Operation Kratos is only applicable when the police are faced with a suicide bomber. In the case of Jean Charles De menezes on the day before the shooting there had been attempted bombings on the London underground system and the perpetrators were still believed to be at large and there was a huge police man hunt underway that also involved elements of UKSF. Intelligence had led them to believe that the building that Mr De Menezes was staying in was also being used by these terrorists, they spotted him leaving the building. A member of SRR noted that he looked like one of the suspected terrorists and was given authorisation to follow him. To make a long story short based on what was happening on the ground the police believed that Mr De Menezes was one of the terrorists form the previous day who had returned to finished the job when he go onto a train. So they shot him 7 times in the head as stipulated under Operation Kratos

This however is not a standing policy of Armed police in the UK it is only to be used in extraordinary circumstances were it is believed they are faced with a Suicide bomber.

UK police do not shoot-to kill.

reply to post by HelenConway


ok sorry fair point they shot cows and that does seem stupid and wrong

reply to post by Hongkongphooey

US attitudes towards tipping are wrong to be honest, I tip out of politeness and thankfullness at good service, it should not be regulated.

Its not regulated 15% is standard and 20% is a good tip. However there is no law that a customer has to tip unless it is a party of 7 or more. In any case it is a great disservice not to tip anything even if the service was terrible, because the server still has to tip out the bussers and the bar depending on the amount of sales. So to eat at a restaurant and not tip, technically you are stealing. Thats the way it is.

In the US we have a saying. "Tipping is not a city in China" and "If you can't afford to tip your server take your ass to McDonalds or stay home."

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by HelenConway

 

ok sorry fair point they shot cows and that does seem stupid and wrong

Am glad we agree - I find it very cruel and unnecessary what they did.

Did you see the cops programme last year where they were interviewing the armed cops in Manchester - they were as hard as nails, itching for a fight,

the met have a long history of shooting innocent people dead - and just recently the manchester cops executed someone in a car,

I do not like them at all.

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by cody599

 

Actually, we have both "armed response" and "armed patrols" in the UK.....our Police force isn't as woefully under-armed as some of our friends from overseas think they are.

Holy crap did that officer just sweep that little girl with his weapon?

Maybe there is something to be said about a society that is not raised around firearms and who has not learned very basic firearms safety?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I know but who decides the ' shoot to kill' implementation at any given time.
The idiot cops in charge,

I am still angry / sad and frightened by the murder / execution of Jean Charles.
No person was made to answer for that crime, they are all still working.

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

 

I know but who decides the ' shoot to kill' implementation at any given time.
The idiot cops in charge,

I am still angry / sad and frightened by the murder / execution of Jean Charles.
No person was made to answer for that crime, they are all still working.

I can totally understand why someone would feel that way

Currently however it is practice for armed police in the UK to shot for centre mass the only time they will aim for the head is if they have strong intelligence that suggests the individual is a suicide bomber.

What happened to Jean Charles was awful it was a series of bad calls made on the ground that led to his death.

Jeez those poor bloated old swing bags........are people that far removed from common sense? (yes)
These kind of incidents would indicate to me that the whole basis of police training, the thoughts that lie at the bottom of any actions,are being imprinted into willing recruits by people who have lost contact with reality.
Its frightening to see the....
." swift escalation to lethal force without rationale or forethought".....mentality that the training is instilling into the civillian police forces.....

America, England or many other western democracies i could mention here....It doesnt seem to vary...The police react with overwhelming force to more situations than previously they were allowed to by the citizens who hired them to keep the peace.

The situation has escalated with measured pace for decades, though i am not sure if there is any organised push to this reactive process being preferred.

The creation of terrorism, whether through Blowback or Self motivated nationalism or religion.
Whether motivated by sinister NWO cabals or a natural outcome, has enabled this transition to accellerate.

The Ultimate terrorist act,( chopping up random people, anywhere or time) seems to indicate that the Maximum enhanced policing powers, Which we were sold..... have now failed us completely, and it is now incumbent on the populace of the free peoples to arm themselves against DIRECT Threats to their person or family.

Threats to which, police response, is helpless to intervene in timely manner.
Did i get that idea across ?(with no offense)
with respect.....s

okay i will give this ago but first let me just say i hate when countries compare themselves to others in this way. its the culture of the country and where you grow up and live. i mean for me as Brit all my life still living in central London, and whose sister happened to be there at the time (at least until the man climbed out of the car with a meat cleaver she then turned and ran back into the building with her daughter and yes they are fine). in this country police are not armed for well reasons i dont know but we also have an armed response team or force cant remember which one it is.

the attack happened, police were called and when they showed up they hid, yep they hid around the corner and waited for the armed team to show up and respond which took more than nine minutes, so what i am thinking is maybe if the cops who showed up did have guns they could have shot the attackers and maybe save the guys life, a man who was a serving soldier.

if you think having guns on cops is a good or right thing i am glad for you but i think it might not always be so. the guy already had a gun on him, they were going to do this, it was something they wanted to do and they did it in front of children and women, yes an armed cop could have sort the situation out quickly but it took the unarmed cops nine minutes to arrive anyway. so the guy would have been dead, and the police showing up with their own guns would have sent the attackers (wont call them terrorists until its proven they r or were connected to a terrorist group, that word is thrown around so much nowadays) into trigger mode and kids could have been shot including my family.

I know im ranting a little not sure if my words are understandable so basically you might be right guns on cops could be a good thing but they can also make things a hundred times worse, so who knows. but i will hope this doesn't bring about people demanding cops in the UK have guns as i dont think i could approach a cop with a gun. and the TV tax thing...i dont know what you meant by that, i know we pay the tax but i dont understand if there was a point to you bringing that up.

reply to post by txinfidel


That will be a firearms officer with serious training, they're psyched and tested regularly to make sure they're up to the job and the rules for police officers to use firearms are strict and those guys are more like a civilian special forces/medical unit as they are some of the worlds most highly trained civilian police officers around to deal with everything non military like hostage rescue to treating injuries caused by firearms as they could be the first on scene

reply to post by Danny85


Okay to be clear about the police having arms being a good thing, I said it could be a good thing if the citizens are given the same respect. Meaning, if you have armed police that is not necessarily a bad thing as long as their power does not go unchecked meaning allowing less stringent laws enabling the common citizen to also be armed. Otherwise if the police have arms but not the citizenry it only leads to tyranny.

The TV tax might work where you all are from, I am not sure how you all feel about it, but as an American it sounds absurd. Sometimes I tell folks that in the UK there is a TV tax and most Americans cant believe it. However they are trying to push this in several states here and I fear that if this ever happens there will no longer be a free press and freedom of speech. However we have moved past the days of tv and on to the internet, so thats a whole nother issue.

reply to post by Maxatoria


Ok thanks for clearing that up and maybe I am wrong but it appears that officer is about to sweep that little girl with his weapon. I also zoomed in on the other image and the safety appears to be off. But in any case sweeping ANYONE with your weapon wether safety is on or off during a patrol is a huge no no. Not to say that it never happens, IT DOES. But I think officers should take extra cautions especially of they are to patrol city streets.

Originally posted by txinfidel
reply to post by SubTruth

 

Yeah sorry I hit the enter button and accidentally posted a blank post.

But just to add a little meat to the subject UK is a surveillance state and US an armed state trying to follow the surveillance blueprint of Great Brittain.

Anyhow we always get this ADT sales people in my neighborhood and for those of you who dont know they sell home surveillance which now can dim your lights and be used with a smart phone. And to those people I always tell them I am armed and always home and that is my surveillance system at which point they get lost. But to be honest the thought of those people watching over my home makes me nervous because if we did have ADT the minute we left on vacation, someone would realize that and then we'd have some ADT employees ransacking our home.

So is a surveillance state better than an armed populace or is there any road in between I guess?

edit on 23-5-2013 by txinfidel because: (no reason given)

They will slowly enact more and more controls. In the UK they gave up most of there rights to self protection and I believe that was a huge mistake. I also believe the UK and Australia will one day again be armed. The will ditch the progressive pipe dream when the foundation that is built of straw gives way.



The good people of the UK are not the french many understand what the rights of the individual hold over the rights of the masses.

if you think having guns on cops is a good or right thing i am glad for you but i think it might not always be so. the guy already had a gun on him, they were going to do this, it was something they wanted to do and they did it in front of children and women, yes an armed cop could have sort the situation out quickly but it took the unarmed cops nine minutes to arrive anyway. so the guy would have been dead, and the police showing up with their own guns would have sent the attackers (wont call them terrorists until its proven they r or were connected to a terrorist group, that word is thrown around so much nowadays) into trigger mode and kids could have been shot including my family.






i agree with you totally,doesn,t matter when armed cops turned up the guy was dead anyway and like some guy said earlier if i was there and carrying my licensed firearm like he would have been in america then he could have stopped it.

well maybe he could have but also could have caused a bloodbath with god knows how many other innocent people being killed,these men were armed with firearms also not just machetes and knives,the fact they didn,t feel threatened by the public probably saved lives,think about that.

reply to post by txinfidel


It is a little boy

reply to post by Maxatoria


And yet despite your rhetoric praising her majesty's finest, they still manage to shoot innocent and unarmed people on far too frequent a basis.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
ok sorry fair point they shot cows and that does seem stupid and wrong

It's only wrong if they did not barbeque them after.

To topic. On police and guns. In the UK the two psycho nut-jobs who murdered a soldier in Woolwich yesterday were shot and survived, thus being available to face justice and the indignity of being at Her Majesty’s pleasure, where I am sure they will have a jolly nice time.

In the US they would have been shot 60 or 70 times and thus achieved their martyrdom.

Give me measured response with a firearm any day.

Regards