An Independent Scotland?

Is the general opinion so far then that Scotland should remain a part of the U.K?

I think the polls show that no is the vote at the moment, but spirits will temper closer to d day.

I for one would vote no so far, cant see any change.

I mean we are voting for independence how the hell can we already be in the EU lol.

reply to post by guidetube


True. Maybe nearer the day Braveheart will be on 24/7

There is no doubt in my mind that would help lol. DVD re-runs of footy also.

Who can vote is also of interest though, supposedly 1/3 of Scots are against independence. However to vote all you need to be is on the electoral and currently living in Scotland so there is more people to count than just Scots so to speak. Is that right?

Then my question is if you are living elsewhere in the EU how difficult and how long does it take to get on the Scottish Electoral?

reply to post by guidetube


Don't know for sure but i read that it'll just follow standard elections with 16 and 17 y/os allowed to vote. Looks like the more people involved the higher the chance to get a yes vote.

So after rough research I note that it takes app. 6 months for an EU national to register to vote in Scotland, if "resident" in Scotland, not sure the exact defintion of living, whether that be paying rent / home owner or just in Scotlnad "looking for a job"!

Please correct me if Im wrong.

reply to post by guidetube


Not really sure, maybe have to investigate a bit more. Think we're going to have an influx of 'Scots' soon?

I would like to see an independent Scotland for my grandkids, and would be happy if a straight vote led to a democratic decision. Unfortunatly that wont happen due to historical sectarian bias. The orange order in Scotland will never vote yes to independence as they live for the union, there are thousands of members and they have been ordered to vote No....sad that a decision for our future will probably be decided on a a date 400 years previous..

Respects

reply to post by EA006


I cant see people flocking to Scotland to vote yes on the current agenda. However if they changed the agenda to say "everyone gets a million quid if we win" then possibly

As it is I feel the vote is a waste of time, don't really see the point in splitting for a few quid all else being the same, however splitting and making some fundamental changes might be interesting only because not many European countries are really doing anything exciting politically but following suit.

Say for example "creating a nation of singers" where as everyone who claims dole for +2 months has to do mandatory singing lessons or something stupid. Even a mandate such as if we win we will privatise the oil?

Sorry could an enlightened Scot tell me how the demographics of the vote are shaping up?

I mean who (groups) are presumed to be voting yes, no and the undecided/unknowns and why?

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by EA006

 

We already have NHS Scotland, I know, I work for them.

The only thing that would change would be where the funding comes from but the actual organisation would change very little as a result of independence.

Yes the Gold Standard is outdated, it works but what’s the point it in if Scotland doesn’t have any actual Gold that they can use to back the money. Alex Salmon has already said he will keep the pound if Scotland becomes independent and it had nothing to do with the NWO

Several of your points are factually incorrect that’s all I am saying.

Its not Alex Salmonds decision whether an independent scotland gets to keep the pound. Its typical of the man to claim things outside his power.

It would be the decision of the UK whether to let the new nation share the UK currency or not. A decision that would be made on the basis of whether or not its beneficial to the UK. There could be tactical advantage in forcing the new nation to create a new currency with no pedigree, a lot of wealth could be encouraged south that way.

Salmond has also said Scotland would immediately have to go begging to the EU for admission. If granted at all such a thing would require adoption of the Euro.

The last I heard was that the No to Independence was in the lead.

Also an Independent Scotland will NOT automatically be a member of the EU nor the UN nor NATO. Salmond has stated that he does not like nuclear weapons, yet NATO members have to like them as part of the mandate.

I do not want Scotland to go independent, but if it does, I hope it falls flat on its face and comes back begging to Westminster where the politicians can then finally end the West Lothian question under an unconditional surrender to Parliament.

As for those here that keep mentioning ''Braveheart''. Try reading up on the true history of Sir William Wallace. He was a common criminal who was betrayed by his own fellow Scotsmen. Nothing like the way that idiot Mel Gibson portrayed.

Originally posted by guidetube
Sorry could an enlightened Scot tell me how the demographics of the vote are shaping up?

I mean who (groups) are presumed to be voting yes, no and the undecided/unknowns and why?

Last poll I looked at had it 59% no and 31% Yes with the remaining undecided.

Surprisingly for the Yes campaign polls suggest that the 16 year olds they've made eligible to vote are also currently in favour of the No campaign.

Its still early days, a lot of campaigning to go. Personally i'm in the no camp. I am both Scottish and British and happy to remain both.

Rant coming but not one I hide from:

Crazily or not sometimes I feel Scotland should rise and really take the front foot with this rather than defensive.

Not "maybe sterling; maybe Euro". Wooopee doo on that one really. How about maybe points were a good deed is worth more than a big sale, how about bit coin, how about barter. How about we decide at the very least.

We should set policies of an independent Scotland as a nation and in my view some short term changes with long term visions to show the world that it can not only be done but done amazingly and satisfactorily.

For example a main gripe of mine:


Religion - Stop this diversified Christian mess (governed from outside or power) and either re-establish honestly or become spiritual not religious. Stop teaching silly things like you must be baptised and hell but proper things like the power in belief and the consequences of an unmoral life. Stop stating that the Bible is Gods word rather Gods influence and mans perceptions. Not to stop religion but for the state wide churches to be given to the people to decide on their beliefs. Thanks for the great legacy but we will handle it from here.


Or even another thing I feel would really progress a nation such as Scotland.

Education - Massive current investment for tomorrow. Education age being mandatory extended so we dont have adults who cant fend for themselves or kids with no direction. I mean 15/16 is very young in modern context. We live well past 40 (even in Scotland). Most are still growing until early 20's..


Or even politics:

Politics - Modernised, promises should be like contracts, clearly break one or change views equals new election. Not say something to get elected then change mind one year later and do what people didn't even vote for (countless examples here). Personnaly I never liked the one leader rule either. I see benefits on a group rather than a figure head.

Just some examples...


Anyway, not this current "we are good we will continue to be good if not probably better (which we probably would be anyway) and we want to cooperate with you on this and keep working with your framework towards your goals with NO VISION." mess. Yes we are doing OK but we are on a blind path. We need to look up at least.


I mean what better chance has the world got than Scotland. The most realistic, down to earth, resource full, generous, conservative, enlightened people there is. Or at least used to be


The old enlightened discussed in bars such matters. We discuss here. Unfortunalety I do not think we have the means the old enlightened had for changing policy and I worry that Scotland would ignore the worlds shortcomings for a little material advancement and illusioned safety.

reply to post by guidetube


You're idealism of an independent scotland will run aground on the shore of harsh reality.

Scotland is prey to christian sectarianism (protestant versus catholic) that has its roots deep in history and is currently vented through football rivalry. The ability to blame things on the english provides for social cohesion. Scottish is defined to a large extent as 'not english'. You take that away and apply real economic pain and you'll see all the old conflict come back out. (Why did the IRA never bomb a major scottish town?, because they knew if they lit that fire it wouldn't easily go out and their sect was outnumbered).

On the economic side people aren't going to gamble all on any grand experiments with Bitcoin. If not allowed to retain the pound an independent scotland will have to join the euro or create a new currency (which will get raped by speculators). Neither of those options are appealing.

They day after an independence decision nothing will have gotten better. Scottish heavy industry will still have gone. The North Sea oil will still be nearing the end. We will still be burdened with the portion of the UKs horrific national debt. We will still be uncompetitive in a globalised world. We will have to duplicate the UK civil service from our smaller tax base.

The scottish defence industry will disappear rapidly, throwing all those (30,000) defence industry workers out of a job. Are UK MoD orders going to come to an independent Scotland? Obviously not.

When you strip the notion of its romanticism its hard to see the real benefit. I am not willing to pay for somebody else's romanticism.

reply to post by EA006


An independent Scotland with closer links to the EU - seems to me that if Scotland votes for 'independence' then it will eventually lose nearly all vestiges of national identity and sovereignty to the EU.

Now if that's what Scotland wants then so be it - their choice.

Is the EU a tool or manifestation of the 'NWO'? - who knows?

Hey there Im hearing you, realistically if Scotland voted yes things could get worse, maybe a bit of a hangover and probably heavy losses whilst things settle. Although I wouldnt write the oil off as not being a major resource for +40years and having that "bank" sitting there and the industry set up it will continue to be tapped, if people switch energy oil will still be in demand. Re-investment, new jobs, GDP could really tick up like in Norway. But I see Britain going the same way, if you are smart enough to be on board and not in dole line. We dont want heavy industry we want green fields and technology. Nice and I am happy with that.

You're right why would anyone really want to stake that on someone elses ideals. Well, possibly if you agree with them.

And the church. I cant see it honestly. How many football fans make church. Its only the quieter community established types still going to mass and Im not sure where they are aligned but ones thing for sure they are good peoples. The football fans arent even anti-english anymore but just because we vote independence wouldnt be to get one over it would be a proper decision for benefits.


We also have to consider how we want to help others and interact in the world. My belief is Scotland would excell if progressive enough. But again thats my view and people wont hastilly risk a lot for that. But it should be considered openly rather than decisions made? Have we ever voted yes on the Euro or Pound.

Vote no we like the current system. Vote yes and we establish our own system based on what the scottish people want.

And I want Scotland to excell morally and financially not just financially so I would consider yes if that was the vote. Same as I would Britain.

I posted a few weeks ago ago about how I observed some surprising things about the West of Scotland and it's working class, Protestant culture. I'd like to share with you an update.

I made many friends when I went to an Orange Walk in May, June. And I was invited to return to see "the big walk". This celebrates the Battle of the Boyne in Ireland the year 1690, a battle between the Catholic King James and his Protestant rival King William. The protestant forces of William won the battle, that ensured that the constituent countries of what became the United Kingdom all shared the Protestant faith.

The battle is commemorated on the 12th Juillet, although for practical purposes many of the walks are held on the Saturday before the 12th, just because it's many people have that day off work etc. So on last Saturday this time, I went to the town of Coatbridge in Lanarkshire to observe this bigger orange Walk. Coatbridge is traditionally a "Catholic town", with the neighbouring town Airdrie being it's "Protestant neighbour". Theirs is an uneasy relationship, people define themselves by what school they attended, which church or chapel they attend, which employer they work for, whether they live in public housing (or not) & where they end up being buried ... these two towns are divided on just about everything.

The day was wonderful, there were many tens of bands. And tens of thousands of people lined the walk routes. The band members were all very colorful, their uniforms and musical instruments all well turned out. The same can be said of the Lodge members & their womenfolk, they were all very well dressed for the occasion. Working class, not very well off financially I guess, but they "scrubbed up well". Many of the crowd wore Glasgow Rangers FC football tops, there were hundreds of British union jack flags to see, the occasion was very festive and everyone was enjoying the spectacle. And I wish to emphasise this, we saw no trouble of any kind whatever, either from the Loyalist or the local RC communities, the Police were not busy at all.

We ended up in a "social club" in Airdrie later that evening, we hadn't really intended to be out so long but the day just kinda happened. Some band members from Belfast, Northern Ireland turned up there too & I got talking to them and their Scottish friends. Their accents were awful difficult for me to follow, they talked so quickly and were so animated in the way they expressed themselves, the lager didn't help much either.

But the impression I came away with is now different entirely different to how I saw things last month. Working class protestant opinions in Scotland are now hardening about independence ... they're in the main all going to vote NO now. It's really noticeable. One of the Irish guys explained it to me, they think we don't have the faintest idea about what they're having to endure in Northern Ireland. They think the Peace Process is entirely one sided, that Sinn Fein and the Catholic communities have the whip hand. They see their culture being ridiculed, their flags being torn down, their marches being banned (and these are very traditional things for them, it's not something easily jettisoned). They see streets signs appearing in the Irish language, they see memorials being placed to IRA bombers ... often paid for by public funds. They see Irish republic flags springing up everywhere.

Their Scottish friends, well, it's not quite as bad for them. But they now have an independence vote coming out, when Scotland and Britain might part company. That's an awful worry for them.

And for both ... and you cannot underestimate this at all ... you have Glasgow Rangers FC going down the lavatory because of irregular accounting at the club, financial mismanagement.

The protestant community in both Northern Ireland and Scotland feel as if they're on the back foot. They're not happy about it at all. They're not going to put up with it for much longer. The resentment is building. And things like this video from last night ... widely circulating in Ulster and Scotland this morning ... shows that the Protestant communities will not put up with much more.

Here the Police are using water cannons to clear the streets. A flute band stays put, they're playing "The Sash". They're just refusing to clear out the way of the police. They're absolutely defiant.

That defiance is now infectious in Scotland's west & the central belt.

There's now no chance of a Yes to Scottish independence.

God help Scotland if there ever was a Yes. There'd be a civil war.

As long as we never have a Tory Govern us ever again i'll be Voting Yes....

PS, I think those who believe the polls show a favourable No Vote might be in for a shock...

No-one has ever asked my 16 year old son and his friends which way they are voting and why they will be Voting Yes....I had nothing whatsoever to do with it..

pps...All MY friends are in on it also...their Children will be voting Yes....Do you think Alex was stupid allowing 16-17 year old's the vote....it's their future more than it is ours, but sometimes you still have to point kids in the right direction...just a slight nudge here and there if you know what i mean....All's fair in Love and War

Say Yes to Independence in 2014...Say yes to Freedom

reply to post by Soloprotocol


Then say yes to Scotland's own version of The Troubles.

Because that's what you'll end up with, I haven't the slightest doubt about it.