Cutting Off Toxic Family Members

reply to post by ButterCookie


The Vedic view is that all humans are 'dirty' (means illiterate, do not know what is right and wrong) at birth, just like animals.

Humans become humans through correct education and correct association with family and friends.

Please send me a message. I shall send you books that will enlighten you, if you want.

reply to post by ButterCookie


Good for you not putting up with nonsense any longer. I wholeheartedly agree and support anyone who cuts toxic relationships regardless if it's family or friends.

The whole view in society that you have to support family members no matter what they are like because somehow they are exempt from blame because they are related by blood is ludicrous. These systems of abuse that include sexual, emotional, and other dysfunctions are a direct result of this nonsense being repeated throughout generations.

reply to post by SunflowerStar


Thanks so much!!

And yes, they have played that game before, where they 'help' me in my times of need, only to throw it in my face later and use it stir up more drama.

reply to post by KatieVA


Thanks!! And many hugs back to you as well...

gonna take a look at that website...

Hi buttercookie.

I recently cut off my mom and not in a nice way. She has been trying to interject herself in my relationships and also between me and my daughter. You did describe my mother btw.

Just wanted you to know, that you are my new family here. All the other family I have kept by the way, it is just her really that I feel like I cannot allow anymore. And she has not contacted me since. I am sure she is thinking of a way to punish me.

Anyhow I like your approach about keeping it positive and speaking about subjects that are beneficial to you but not to their drama. In any case I hope she doesnt call me anytime soon cause I will just hang up or not say anything nice because I can't stand that woman.

But this thread helps and though I dont want to dwell on it now, I will be checking back from time to time.

Also, telling her to hit the bricks was the best feeling I have had in a long time. Just wish I could have seen the look on her face, but Ill stop there. She brought this on herself.

Anyways thanks.

reply to post by ButterCookie

Buttercookie, Bless your heart. I definitely know how you feel and what you have been going through. I had toxic family coming at me from all sides as a child and even as an adult. As a child, much physical, mental, and sexual abuse from more then one relative. Psycopathic behaviors from most all of them. It is best to get away from all such "relatives" as soon as possible.I used to be told daily that I should have been born dead....I got burned with cigarettes in the palm of my hands, beat, locked in closets until unconscious and so on....the odd thing about it all....when I left, married, became a nurse...they still wouldn't leave me alone.

They made money from fraudulent law suits and would hire P.I.'s to find me so they could harrass me some more. It never ended until they finally passed on from old age...never had peace. They murdered my one grandmother for money....I was a child...they said no one would believe if I told because they went to church. Because of my military affiliations, had to move a lot so getting police involved wasn't always an answer or good for career status and such.

Anyway, it is best to make a clean break if possible...in my case, that was difficult. Peace of mind and safety and happiness is the most important thing. I wish all those things for you...be safe and well and happy and never let anyone take your energy or joy or spoil the good things you have in your life. Hugs and love to you and best of luck always. ^j^ We can choose our pals but not our family. Enjoy the company of good friends, pals, folks here at ATS and such! My friends sustain me and are postive people and they make all the difference.

reply to post by ButterCookie


We all have toxic family members. My fathers family fight back and forth amongst themselves like a bunch of vultures waiting to "pick through the bones" of other relatives. I have an uncle that's a pretty good guy, he has his quirks but if you like the good, you have to be able to shoulder the bad, it's a package deal. My father was emotionally "bipolar." He would do things with me like fishing trips, building model planes, things I enjoyed and it was good because he enjoyed them as well. But other times he was emotionally and physically abusive and would make me feel like less than nothing. I up and left home as soon as I was able. But rather than belabor the bad, let me simply concentrate on the good...

My mother is an amazing woman, if not for her in my formative years I am quite sure I would have been another teenage statistic. She is the most caring, graceful, noble and honorable person that I know. She is honestly empathetic and she loves unconditionally. She may not have a string of academic letters after her name, but she has real common sense. She is creative in many areas and used to give her art away just to please people. She gives of herself when she can and you have to fight her to take back what you can give her. In her 30's and 40's, she looked like a model or a movie star, my friends used to come by just to look at her. Now at 79 she is simply an aged version of that same beautiful woman and the 30 year old still shines through. My mother is the only evidence I have that there is still beauty and honor in the world.

I regret nothing about about my family or being born into it as had I not been, I would have never known my mother. So sometimes, it's not all bad.

Cheers - Dave

I have an honest question.

Why do some family members especially parents feel the need to feed off negativity or bring others down? Is it a power trip? Or quite simply for mothers do they feel the need to embrace their young or in many cases when their young are grown up does it become a sense of losing that or something else? Where does the overbearing mother or the mother who feels she needs to continue to feed into negativity and control everything feed from or lack a sense of power or what not?

I know that question doesnt make sense, but is it human nature to be like that? Why?

I have slowly grown to realise that my own mother is like this.

It took me such a long time because 90% of the time she is the perfect loving mother.. I thought I was doing what I was 'supposed to' until finally into my 20s I started to realise... Whenever I tried to leave she would mysteriously get sick (but still be fine enough to do whatever she wanted when she felt like it), etc etc etc.. When she turned it would be like a mad monster spitting venom and fire everywhere at anything that moved, and the smallest things could set her off, like forgetting to do something around the house, etc.

I moved out once only to be lured back in. 5 years ago I finally moved out permanently. I'm still not free, and never will be, because I can't bring myself to cut her off. But psychologically and in other terms my life is starting to catch up with everyone elses of my age... Although Im still a ways behind. I still feel horrible for saying it, but I will breathe a sigh of relief when she is gone from this world.

To anyone out there going through this.... particularly with parents/older family who guilt you into staying around, doing as they say, for whatever reasion, despite how abusive or destructive or depressing the environment is - have faith in yourself and remember that you dont owe your life to them. The day it all clicked for me was when the shrink said something so simple...."You're not the parent in this relationship". All that time I'd stayed despite what was going on because I was raised (by my mother) to think thats what I was supposed to be doing... Of course then I doubted for a long time.. if she was purposely doing this.. if she was even aware.. but it doesnt matter. It crushed me for years, screwed up my development, destroyed my ability to trust and love.

Also despite whether or not you agree with his philosophies of society/etc, Stefan Molyneux (freedomainradio) has alot of great material on the subject of toxic relationships and extricating oneself from the situation. He takes a very firm approach which alot of people find hard.. I do, but I wish I had the strength to do it, because its probably what I should do.

txinfidel.. I have no idea tbh. I'm not even sure if she's consciously doing it. One thing i can say is it is a cycle - her mother was the same. Its funny. my grandmother claims her mother was horrible, but that she is kind. My mother claims my grandmother was horrible but that she is kind. Both of them to most of the world do appear kind. Its really only me and my brother that know what is going on, the rest of the world will run to her aid because she acts so kindly outside toward others.

This sometimes makes me afraid that perhaps I am not as kind as I think I am either, although nbobody has ever told me anything contrary to that.

reply to post by ButterCookie

I basically started this thread because I have come to realize that 'family' is who you make it. We do not get to chose our blood relatives; therefore I believe that we are not bound to them, especially if they are toxic.

I've created my own family over the years. I learned from an early age the blood relatives were toxic. It's sad, but they are pretty much there setting you up for failure simply so they can say "I told you so". So they can be right, so they can confirm their existence, which, to them is centred around them being "smarter" than you. That's there entire life. That's their validation in life.

And you wonder, why people don't care about the bottom dwellers. That's why! Because they all want to just bring each other down if they aren't there already. I came from poverty, and I left it. I can't stand being around people that live even in the middle class range. Until you get to the top 5 or 10%, people have major dysfunctions.

They are small, evil, narrow little minds that wouldn't see anything good in front of them if it was standing right there. Hateful little beings.

I wouldn't blame the people who want to wipe out most of the worlds population.. Look at how they behave.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I understand a measure of what it is you are going through. My father has no soul, and yet he used to preach. Although I havent given up on faith, I do not do "church" and I do not speak to him anymore. He disowned my sister and I, after my mother divorced him. However, he never showed any interest in our lives and happiness, or lack there of, in all our lives. He would see us feeling down, and either ignore it, or leave the building so as not to have to deal with whatever was ailing us. Such indifference would cause arguements between my mother and father, which he would passively pass off as being down to HER irritable nature.

We excised him from our lives well before he wrote my sister and I out of his will, and I for one say good riddance. So thoroughly am I pleased that I havent seen the man for nine years, that when he vanished from his second wifes home a few years back, the police came to ask me where he might have been. I can only assume that his second wife knew what I had told him the last time I spoke to him, which roughly translates as "The next time I see you, I will kill you.", and had passed that information to the police. Unfortunately he turned up several days later after a stay at his mother(my grandmother)'s place, who, incidentally, was such a bi.... such a stunning example of good character, that her interaction with my mother, during the period where she was pregnant with my sister, induced my mothers teats to run dry, so that she was incapable of breast feeding my sister.

Grandma and Grandpa on fathers side of the family are ALSO on my "no platform" list, because the particular plauge that they spread around themselves, literally makes me want to grasp some sharp objects,end thier lives with them, and make modern art out of thier sundered, stinking corpses. Spreading negativity for that particular bunch of people, is as simple as waking up in the morning, and continuing to breathe air that ought to be reserved for decent, fairminded folk.

Where your situation is concerned, I wouldnt loose a single moments sleep over cutting these people out of your life. Life is hard enough without constant badgering, naysaying, whispers, seeds of doubt planted under every foundation of every thought you can summon to mind. I know the damage that is being done to you by these people, and my heart goes out to you. You cannot allow this to go on, despite the fact that you would, rightly, wish things to be different than they are. Alas, this is the real world, and things out here are rarely as we would wish them. With that in mind, you have to make the choice that will benifit you the most, and free you to spread your wings, take flight and get what you want from your personal life, and your career.

Knowing that these things are impossible with such weight pulling you down as you have been carrying on behalf of your family, is the first step. Its a doozy, but it is so worth it.

And remember... Love, wether it is between relatives or partners, is rooted in support. It is not just a word to bandy about because its the "done thing" or because "society demands it". If you arent being supported, encouraged, protected and cherished, then you arent being loved. If you arent being loved by your relatives, then they arent worth your time.

I know you might not be as interested in faith as you might have been (if you hadnt been exposed to negativity and political brainwashing associated with that element of life by your family). But you are in my thoughts, and my prayers. I dont know you from Adam, but I will tell you what, as much as a perfect stranger can, I love you, and I wish you the very best, and all the success you clearly deserve. Dont let the buggers get you down.

Many hugs and good luck!

reply to post by shrevegal


Thanks so much!!!

Yes, we chose our friends and not our relatives, which is evident that we should not feel life-long obligated to them; our relation to them is 'happenstance'.

I look at it like this; there are many relatives that I truly would not have anything to do with if there was no 'blood relation' -so I no longer feel obligated to attend family get-to-gethers and reunions either.

If I do, I socialize with those who I would otherwise have a a friendship with (if we were not related) and then I leave.

Originally posted by txinfidel
I have an honest question.

Why do some family members especially parents feel the need to feed off negativity or bring others down? Is it a power trip? Or quite simply for mothers do they feel the need to embrace their young or in many cases when their young are grown up does it become a sense of losing that or something else? Where does the overbearing mother or the mother who feels she needs to continue to feed into negativity and control everything feed from or lack a sense of power or what not?

I know that question doesnt make sense, but is it human nature to be like that? Why?

I think that's a question that all of us with toxic family members struggle with for most of our lives. I know I struggled a whole lot at finding the source and was actively recording possible mental illnesses for my mother in my diary as a teen (thought schizophrenia and/or Korsakoff's as a teen). I do not think that it is human nature in the slightest for if it were, it'd be questionable that we would have survived as a species. It's the rehashing of the old argument of nature v. nurture, the difference between being "born that way" or "being created by one's environment" for personality. I think in the case of toxic family members, it may be a combination of both as sometimes there may be a predicating mental illness that leads to it (nature) or may be the reason why a cycle of abuse within a family began (nurture--or technically, lack of nurturing). Another poster remarked on narcissistic personality disorder as defining their mother. That is one that both myself and a friend of mine with a similar monstrous mother have gravitated to in the past because it matches. Narcissistic personality disorder would be a "nurture" type of condition where the individual failed to thrive properly due to severely unreliable, extreme parenting.

My mother is definitely a narcissist. However, I'm also very certain that she is a psychopath. I put the latter to the test after I dislocated my neck and encountered "bad mom" again. The injury was severe enough that my vision was being impacted with periods of partial blindness, visual deterioration, diplopia, and scotoma and temporary paralysis. Any other mother would likely to be scared to death by their child--even adult--having such an issue. I know that my elderly neighbor fully expected that my mother would swoop in to assist me because, as she put it, "she's my mother". Instead, when I reported that I was starting to go partially blind, my mother raged at me on the phone about not being "dependable" because I couldn't drive her to a plastic surgery appointment. I was so shocked that I chose to deliberately step on a landmine and told her how I truly felt inside--all the terror of death, blindness, paralysis--everything, complete with total expression of emotion. She stayed silent for the entire duration of my sobbing to the point where I felt like I had to ask whether or not she had hung up on me or if she was even there. Her response was (no joke) "yes, I am and I am still angry at you for not being dependable and blowing $5000 of my money." That is a psychopath, which can be narcissism with a whole lot of twist. Psychopathy is thought to be a mixture of genetics and environment or "nature and nurture".

I'd say that those of us who survive these kind of environments and come out the other end of it without becoming just another one of these individuals should have a sense of pride in the fact that we most likely dodged a pair of bullets of genetics and environment. Despite nature and nurture, we preserved our humanity.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Hey ATS,

I want to start this post by first saying that I love having ATS as a family

.

My problem is blood relatives that have been toxic for many years now. They consistently seek drama and negativity, and will even stir up 'mess' when there is none.

The woman that gave birth to me is such person. Years ago, I made the decision to cut her out of my life due to a long history of abuse; emotional, psychological, and verbal. As an adult, I often wondered why my grandmother, her mother, would always side with my mother depsite her cruelty to me, to the point where I begin to see her (grandmother) role in the abuse. She would often say, "I know she keeps hanging up on you and cursing you out; but keep calling her and tell her you love her- remember you only have 1 mother".

Following her advice would only add to my hurt, as my mother (and her) seemed to enjoy watching me 'chase' after my mother.

I stopped.

Soon I start to see that grandmother was not the 'dear old grandmother' that I thought she was. I begin to see through her deciet and manipulation as well. It became apparent that these two women were bad for for my well-being

Later, I begin to see that the only communication from my mother was negative. She would call maybe once or twice a year, literally, only if she'd heard I lost a job, entered an abusive relationship, financial troubles, etc. Never anything else like birthdays or holidays.

Once when I was not working and had faced eviction, my mother told me that I could only live with her if I dropped out of school and 'quit being so uppity' by looking for office work- take minimum wage and quit chasing the college 'dream'. She told me to quit being too good to accept welfare.

Ever since I have been in college after my military service, I have been told to 'quit the college "thing" ' by my family members. I tell them that I am trying to be successful, gain wealth and independence, and become a great example for my 3 children.

So much that I am leaving out, trust me, but my family members are completely and utterly dysfunctional.

One thing that I learned from a good friend to do whenever they bring their drama to me (by phone, text, or in person) was to change the subject and talk about something positive in my life. For example:

Grandmother: Hey (ButterCookie). How are you?

Me: Great!! And you?

Grandmother: Oh I'm doing just fine. Listen, I heard that you and (my son's father) were arguing about something the other day. What was it? (salavating for drama)

Me: Ohhh, that was nothing. We were able to work it out (probably a lie, but I won't give her the satisfaction). Anyway, I'm soooo glad you called. I am getting ready to take the LSAT for law school and write start applying at various law schools such as .......I'd like for you to help me narrow down my choices."

Grandmother: Nahh...don't have time. Anyway, I have something to do. Bye now.

Basically, positive news is a repellant to them.

Many of you know a little about me. As a black woman in a circle of impoverished family members, essentially, I "dared" too much for them. I dared to 'leave the plantation' by:

wear my hair natural (not permed)
not voting Democratically
seeking higher education
not wanting to be comfortable living on welfare
not being religious

I basically started this thread because I have come to realize that 'family' is who you make it. We do not get to chose our blood relatives; therefore I believe that we are not bound to them, especially if they are toxic.

Water is thin, and blood is thick- but too much blood can make you sick.

edit on 22-5-2013 by ButterCookie because: (no reason given)

Well i think what you're doing is wonderful and i wish you all the best. Unfortunately you cant pick your family but the worlds a big place! I dont think there's anything wrong with welfare btw.
Some families only know how to deal with crisis afetr crisis, if there isnt drama, something is wrong in their books, its strange.

I hope you get to where you want to be. Stay strong, keep smiling

reply to post by ButterCookie


Glad to hear that you have become aware of the situation and have taken a few steps to distance yourself from un-needed angst! It isn't only family that does this, I spent a year in a relationship with a woman who somehow managed to make everything negative. She was always talking about something negative and if you put any stock in believing makes things happen...she was an all pro. Something would happen and she would remark on how it could only get worse and then....bam it got worse. I made the mistake of trying to help her see the positive in things and it just started making me negative, it was like a black hole sucking up all of the light and joy. We are still friends but I make sure I keep my distance, I never again want to be involved with that type of negative aspect on a daily basis. Stay light in your heart, it sounds like you are homing in on the start of something good for you and your immediate family!

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Wow that is incredibly shocking. Thanks for sharing your story with me.

You have every right to choose with whom you want to be connected.

The whole genetic blood line drama is materialistic propaganda.
It is much more important whether you share ideas and goals with another person. Whether they happen to have a similar genetic blueprint is irrelevant.

If you are doing better without them, just go your own way. You will start your own family and without destructive influences it will be much better.

Just take care to not blame your family members for your own failures. Be responsible for your decisions and be true to your own goals.

Good luck!

reply to post by txinfidel


No problem. It hurts growing up in a situation where the unconditional love that we expect from our mothers just does not exist. I know that, for a long time, I thought that it was a reflection of who I was and that somehow I was "unlovable". Luckily, I started seeing past that to some extent in my teen years as I was trying to diagnose my mother but it still persisted. What I did with my mother was basically deliberately stepping on a landmine. As I've said, we learn to avoid them and that makes it easier to delude ourselves because we go for the path of least resistance/trauma. When I stepped on it deliberately, it was a test of my mother's capacity to be a mother. I also did not tell her my verdict on whether her presence in my life would continue as that would have been sure to provoke a violent response. Overall, I'm glad that I did it because now I know, without a doubt, how she truly feels and what she is. Those were the last words that she'll ever get out of me actually. I told her, "Thank you, Mom, for finally showing me who you truly are and how you truly feel." Never thought to do that before and so hopefully someone else still in the midst of it can ponder whether they can do it, too. Was honestly the best thing that I could have ever done.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
reply to post by happyhomemaker29

 

Exactly!!

Grandmother tried to get me to fall for that 'better woman' thing. In all actuality, she perpetuated the abuse, insisting that I continue to chase my mother, who wanted nothing to do with me.

I'm gald you brought this point up.

I was reading about these types of situations and one person's testimony has got my mind in overdrive.

The person had a mother that wanted nothing to do with him, despite all his efforts of chasing and begging. He soon realized that it was because of this, his adult relationships follwed suite: he would chase after women who rejected him.

I can personally say that I have been there, mostly in abusive relationships with men.

I remember I followed grandmother's unhealthy "advice" and wrote my mother a 3-4 page handwritten heart-felt letter, begging her to be a part of my life. When I called her to ask for her response, she replied that she had used the letter for firewood in her fireplace.

I'm so sorry. Yeah, our family wouldn't know how to praise one another for getting to a good place if it bit them on the butt. Instead you get, "What do you want? A medal?" I offer to support family! Good job! Congratulation! I'm so proud!

Remind me why in the world am I kicking myself in the butt again? I have severe health issues that cause me to take medications that care getting worse and I have a family member on here that constantly calls me a drug addict. I also happen to have severe PTSD with anxiety and depression. It's been pretty rough for me lately and I've had it. I'm tired of being called a drug addict, I'm tired of the flashbacks, I'm tired of dealing with some rough stuff going down, so yeah, I broke my sobriety today. Time to start over again tomorrow I guess. "What do you want? A medal?"

reply to post by happyhomemaker29


This thread brought tears to my eyes. I wish everyone all the best. Family can be the stuff of nightmares. Blood does not equal love. And LOVE, real love, which is about caring, empathy, support, applause, help without enabling, and lifting up, is what matters. And if a "family" member doesn't LOVE you and does the opposite, leaving may be the only option. The best revenge is a life well lived.