Where Are We Now? Post Feminism and the Modern World

reply to post by an0nThinker


Thank you for your reply. Wow, what to say first?

I guess I should clarify the title. I grew up in the 80s, when women's lib wasn't quite the big deal as it was earlier. Today I rarely here about women's lib anymore so just assumed the movement was over. Obviously, I got that very wrong.

I've read several horror stories on here and other forums that describe how skewed the courts are in favor of women, especially with custody disputes. I believe it, and it's a terrible shame. The children should be with the best parent, period. But men have to fight much harder to gain custody.

With regards to alimony...I think it's outdated. When I got my divorce the lawyer suggested I ask for alimony. At the time my ex was a paramedic and I made more than him. I refused to ask for alimony, and our split was luckily very amicable. We just took back the things we'd brought to the marriage and split the rest.

I think alimony is unneeded in today's society. After all, women have equality (or pert durn near) in the workplace. If a woman gets a divorce it shouldn't be a free ticket to easyville. Let her work, just like everyone else.

I know there are situations were alimony might be justified, such as a woman who helped put her husband through med school only to be dumped when he graduated, but even then I don't think the percentage should be high. But that's my opinion.

As to women alleging child abuse to finagle more money out of their ex....again, I can see it. However, I don't think it's a female thing so much as it is a societal/generational thing. The parents of my students, who are typically young twenty something's, seem to have a sense of entitlement about everything. I see it all the time, and it's something my students do as well. I'm generalizing here, but the majority want the reward without the effort. I'd guess 80% of my parents receive government assistance of some sort, yet they also drive new cars and have nice iPhones. I've heard them laugh about getting arrested for selling drugs or prostitution, and I've heard some offer advice on how to scam local churches and charities out of money. These same parents dropped out of school and could care less if their children follow suite. I could go on and on but I'll stop bc that's a totally. Different topic.

I understand your concerns about marriage....what about a prenup? If the partner to be is unwilling to sign a prenup, that would be a big red flag for me.

Tenth and BigFatFurryTexan, your comments were wonderful and thought provoking as well. I've got lots to think about.

Originally posted by windword
Violence is never acceptable.

... really? Do you really believe that? Not to stray off topic but these words really hit me.

Never?? I can think of a million reasons or times when it's more then perfectly acceptable...

And i'm not even TRYING to justify it, that's just cold hard fact.

It's never acceptable in certain circumstances, you'd never hit a lady etc.. but never in general?
I don't believe that. There will always be an aggressor as it's part of our nature,
and the most effective way to neutralize an aggressor is.. violence.
You don't hope they will stop to think about hurting you? No, you hurt them.
It's the law of the land. It's why animals have defence mechanisms.

Originally posted by yourmaker

Originally posted by windword
Violence is never acceptable.

... really? Do you really believe that? Not to stray off topic but these words really hit me.

Never?? I can think of a million reasons or times when it's more then perfectly acceptable...

And i'm not even TRYING to justify it, that's just cold hard fact.

It's never acceptable in certain circumstances, you'd never hit a lady etc.. but never in general?
I don't believe that. There will always be an aggressor as it's part of our nature,
and the most effective way to neutralize an aggressor is.. violence.
You don't hope they will stop to think about hurting you? No, you hurt them.
It's the law of the land. It's why animals have defence mechanisms.

Yes, violence is never acceptable.

Doesn't mean you won't have to indulge in unacceptable behavior. But do you revel in being violent? Likely not....because you recognize it is unacceptable. So unacceptable that you are certainly willing to be violent as a response to violence used against you.

If violence were acceptable, then when it was used against you, you would accept it.

Something that I've noticed about men that are afraid of the feminist movement is that they are basically afraid of women in general. They tend to be shy and insecure around women and deathly afraid of rejection and try and cover it up with macho swagger.
Psychologically it's very easy for them to build a defensive mechanism of mysogony.

In my business as a producer/director and sometimes casting director; I would much rather deal with strong, self assured, women with a decided plan of action toward their

goals and carreers; than some fragile waif, waiting for some one to tell her what to do and take mercey on her. Confident women make better actors, crew members and below the line helpers because they will listen to logic and reason and get the job done. where as males invariably need to establish a hierarchy of dominance and competition; that takes time and cost money.

I also deal with plenty of gay women and once a pattern of mutual respect is established, they are usually the ones I chose for 2ndAD and UPMs. Very important positions. Your Personality and loyalty in getting hired for my production company often trumps education and experience.

Women in this business don't want special treatment; they just want to be recognized for the strengths and assets they bring to the project and be paid accordingly. That's not unreasonable.

Even "prima donnas" and there are alot of them, can be dealt with logic but if they persist with BS then I fire them and warn the rest of the community that they are toxic and to be avoided. However they can change and be fantastic on set. If asked, I always give second chances.

The above are lessons I had to learn to be able to deal with the crazy, fastpaced, world of entertainment. I took 7 years.

reply to post by yourmaker


Once, my, at the time, 14 year old step daughter was throwing a fit. She had a knife in one hand and large frying pan in other. My husband had her in a bear hug, from behind, and she was in the process of biting his arm.

I quickly and decidedly slapped her across the face, distracting her long enough to get the knife and pan away from her. She made charges against me with Child Protective Service and I had to stand in front of a judge, who cleared me of child abuse charges.

Sometimes violence is the only way out. It may be understandable but it is never acceptable.

reply to post by smyleegrl


smyleegrl,
Women lib is not dead at all. I was at a major state university few years ago. Feminism is rampant; men are always the aggressors. Some of the feminine but anti-female supremacy women I knew (as in extrovertly) were shunned by other women. Not publicly but within groups of women. You would not believe what some women's studies professors and their ilk teach young girls about men.

I have seen women act like a group of jackals when the guys are attractive. However when a average looking would ask them out suddenly they became "creepy" "creeper"etc. I do believe some of my misgivings about women might be generational. My generation of women will look at bank balances, looks before they gauge how the guy will treat them. And this comes from a guy who is fairly attractive and has a stable future. I would often look at how girls I would date would treat their friends, peers to see if they were worth it.

The thing that makes me wonder is where are these girls, women learning these things from? Men are to be used and thrown, men are always at fault. Post feminism is a myth. Are we not a society that systemically makes sure that men are oppressed (so are women..)? The lobbying in Washington is really strong. Rape, violence laws are skewed towards women. Why is that a complaint of abuse leads to an arrest without an evidence? Women have used the abuse card to throw men out of the house and win custody of children.

As for marriage its hard to find women without princess syndromes. Women are constantly shopping around trying to move up ( my generation). Though I have dated a few good ones they wanted to be married in early twenties and I thought that was too early. Its hard for me to get to point with a women where I want to marry her and ask for a prenup, even though it practical. Almost seems like setting my self up for failure.

I love women, however out of school I've come across lots of men that are living the life I would only wish on my enemies. I think I might be a little jaded but I am not alone. There are lots of men that would agree that things need to change for both genders. Upliftment of women should not be tied to suppression of men. Alimony should be conditional and should certainly not be for ever. We need laws that protect everyone equally without their genders. However, women are a major voting block any one who tries to take their "rights away" will never be elected again; the feminist movement would make sure of it. I wish we had more objective women like you.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, violence is never acceptable.

Doesn't mean you won't have to indulge in unacceptable behavior. But do you revel in being violent? Likely not....because you recognize it is unacceptable. So unacceptable that you are certainly willing to be violent as a response to violence used against you.

If violence were acceptable, then when it was used against you, you would accept it.

Your logic gets a bit twisted if put into the hands of someone truly striving to be good, and with strong self discipline:

I was told that violence was never acceptable and unfortunately for me, I believed it, as I was young, impressionable and hadn`t figured out that my mother was not a wise person.
I refrained from using any violence, even when it was used against me, and as natural instincts will do, this quickly led to all the other children (and some adults) to be drawn to abusing me.

That judgement is part of the victim mentality, which allows a person to have a sense of ethical superiority in exchange for their submission and powerlessness in the physical and material world. While providing a sense of internal relief, it also has the effect of re-creating victimization scenarios in the future. In other words, judging victimization as "good" or "rightious" one prepares them self to enter that role repeatedly in future.

"Never" or "always" tends to bring in the problems of that sort...

What your comment is actually saying is that sometimes violence is acceptable- when you do it in self defense. No?

reply to post by olaru12


olaru12,
You really think strong women have to be feminists? Are you saying without radical ideas about men, women cannot be strong? Let me say guys who are "afraid" of feminists are not really afraid. They just do not want to deal with someone that has ideas of supremacy of females. The rest of what you say.. what does it have to do with anything related to this topic? I would deal with a strong women myself, one that can assert herself but there is no correlation for this for her being a "feminist". Unless you can insinuate that all strong willed and lesbians are feminists..

After reading so many incredible posts, I've done some thinking.

If the modern feminist movement is trying to gain supremacy over males, then this is deplorable. I guess it's akin to the way some white people feel about racism....namely, that only white people can be racist, while the same comment from anyone else is okay.

I never realized how rampant misandry was in our cultural. Thank you to everyone who took the time to share personal experiences. You've opened my eyes, and I don't like what I see.

Let me be clear...I want women (and men) to be the masters of their own destiny. I do not want one sex to subjugate the other.

I see women and men as yin and yang. Our differences and strengths compliment each other...or they should.

Again, thank you to everyone who responded. Hugs to you all.

What your comment is actually saying is that sometimes violence is acceptable- when you do it in self defense. No?

reply to post by Bluesma


I'm not a confrontational person, and I certainly not violent. I back down more than I should when things escalate.

However....let someone try to harm my son, my family, or myself and I will be swinging punches left and right.

Maybe it's just the mothering instinct, but I've seen red (and lost my good sense) a few times when someone's thoughtless actions have threatened my son.

Violence is never desirable...but sometimes you have to defend yourself.

reply to post by Bluesma



Was the violence committed against you acceptable? I am unsure that a response to defend yourself is truly violent.

I am not a violent person. But have no problem putting a fist on someone's nose to defend myself.

In any event, it isn't ok that I have to defend myself. It may be necessary, but it certainly is unacceptable, even if I am forced to accept it.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't propose that you roll over and take it. Only that you seek to find a way to avoid unacceptable behavior. It is natural law. Even the most fearsome predators don't seek out fights (unless it is them doing their social status or mating rights thing).

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Bluesma

 

Was the violence committed against you acceptable? I am unsure that a response to defend yourself is truly violent.

I am not a violent person. But have no problem putting a fist on someone's nose to defend myself.

In any event, it isn't ok that I have to defend myself. It may be necessary, but it certainly is unacceptable, even if I am forced to accept it.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I don't propose that you roll over and take it. Only that you seek to find a way to avoid unacceptable behavior. It is natural law. Even the most fearsome predators don't seek out fights (unless it is them doing their social status or mating rights thing).

I can't reconcile the concepts you are putting together. The "never acceptable", with "sometimes necessary" . It just is self contradicting and results in shame, self condemnation and guilt. If I believe violence is NEVER acceptable, and yet events lead me to have to use it, I will be left to self condemnation after.

But also, I percieve that violence varies according to sensibilities. Some friendly good natured punches in the arm that adolescent boys do would be considered violence to some very sensitive women. I think absolutes are tricky to make in this subject.

I'm only focusing on this point because it is one fo the ways I percieve feminisation has started to get ahead of itself. Aggression is part of the male hormonal drives, and has good reason for being.... and attempts to repress it seem to cause problems for boys and men. You get behavioral problems, emotional problems, (and a tendancy towards passive aggression in men that I particularly notice in the side of my family that is a matriarchial type).

Being the mom of teen boys I found it better for them to have some sort of outlet for those aggressive and violent urges- like sports such as boxing, hockey, rugby, football- that free the mind to concentrate the rest of the time. In trying to eliminate that sort of action, we handicap men in other ways. (but perhaps that is sort of the intent, for some women...?)

reply to post by Bluesma


Yeah, my experience with my 2 boys has been different. The oldest is now grown, about 5'4", and maybe 120lbs, as well as gay. He was certainly no fighter, and had to get through growing up in the machismo world of latin youths.

The youngest, who is 15, is bigger than our house. He has socked quite a few folks in the nose growing up. But now he is very large, and very strong. For fear of him causing serious injury, I have worked quite hard to make him see violence as unacceptable. The side effect of this is, yes, you do take home some guilt. But place that guilt on the person who caused you to have to act in that manner, who gave you no choice.