Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

I haver never implied that US has weaker education. No. US universities provide good education. Not many universities in the world are able to compete with Ivy League education. MIT has probably the best science education in the world. Although we have to consider that US is not Ivy League alone. There are many other good ones, although there are also some weaker universities. The overall level is higher than the world average though.

Yet, I do not agree at all with the costs. 40k a year is too much. In EU I can get a quality education from very reputable schools, which are on similar level with top US universities. And I do not have to pay a dime for it.

There are several reasons why so many foreigners come to US to study.

1) They do not have to pay for it. There are so many scholarships and programs round here which cover the costs of US universities. I have already found sponsors, who would pay my Phd at MIT without asking a dime back. Although I have not made my decision yet.

2) Requirements are a bit lower for foreigners in the sense, that US public education is much weaker on average. Here is no option of choosing. You take all the math, physics, different languages. At the end even the average students can often be compared to US good ones (not the best of course), as the requirements are much higher + due to getting more theoretical English it is easier for foreigners to do better at US tests. I did the SATs some years ago, it was not very hard to be honest. The english was harder than I thought , but still managed a very high score compared to most who have it as native language. I had 12 years of English and ended at proficiency level after high school, we had approached. The math part contained easy exercies, but these needed fast thinking. We have 2,5 hour examination with 10 problems, which are very advanced and require lots of thinking and calculations. It was the opposite, very easy problems and one did not have much time to do these. Kind of like the 9th grade examination round here, only less time. 4 people I know have managed to get into Ivy League college and to be honest, academically they were not top students round here.

3) Attractive for foreigners. US has quite a reputation in the world. Everybody wants to go to US at least once in their lifetime.

4) Not very expensive to live at. US is less expensive than most of Europe. Living costs are far lower, especially on food and other consumer products. The living in campus is usually paid with by the sponsors.

5) Strong universities. If I had a choice between a university in EU and an university in US, which similar levels, I would choose US.

There are many reasons why to go to US university for a foreigner.

I'm not sure how he got to the idea that the UK has it right, as of 2012 most universities charge £9000 per year (about $13000) even for the most useless courses and the worst universities... That leaves the class of '15 with the same $40k debt just for tuition as he's complaining about.

I'm 2/3 through the way of my course and I owe £15000 (about $22500) but I reckon it's worth it for a "proper" degree like engineering or law or accounting or medicine... Something where there's likely to be a solid job at the end of it and really you need a degree to get in. As for $40k debt for a philosophy or music degree?? No thanks.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The unfortunate part is, it is too late. The bubble has been created. Too many people out there with student debt that they will not be able to pay. The bubble is going to burst, and its going to happen fairly soon.

These students who ended up with a useless degree and no way to pay the loan back should just hoof it to another country and change their last name. As much as I hate to admit it, I'd probably do that.

adding insult to injury - the Hick (gov of Co) will give free gratis to illegals that graduate from high school to attend college compliments from the taxpayer - cripe - they(government pukes) sure are free w/ the taxpayer money.
guess I'll hold my breath for a refund of 100k - my expense for sending my kids to 'higher ed.'

reply to post by pyramidikal


I had to chime in with this comment.

Currently I'm attending college and the textbook prices are laughable and disgusting at the same time.

I'll give you an example. I paid 150. A HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS for a Music appreciation textbook! That's right, in order to appreciate music you have to pay a 150 dollars. Usually they have an option to rent the textbook where you can get it basically half off, but there was no option here.

This whole thing is a giant scam. Textbooks, the education. Oh and by the way, the education is EXACTLY the same level as my high school, with the exception of a creative writing class here and there. The Government and History classes were ALL one textbook, seriously, it was like McGraw Hill 2.0! I honestly can't beleive they're getting away with this.

The new college education is the new high school diploma, you just have to spend 90,000 dollars in debt first.

Really pissing me off.

reply to post by Cabin


the problem isn't the colleges it's the corporations who will only hire if you have 2 years of experience. How do you get two years of experience if you just graduated college? internships? LOL if anybody has ever interned you know most of the work isn't leading you to better understand your industry or position its to get coffee, send emails, file stuff, organize the back room ect plus most workers resent interns as competition so they will not teach them anything out of fear they might take their job. Paid internships are great but they are like unicorns in this market lol.

Colleges don't teach practical real world experience and to be honest they cant due to variations from company to company regarding what the position entitles. Furthermore, You add in people who only attend college for the girls and an easy degree that has no available jobs and you can see how this problem could escalate. Being older I know what a risk attending college is so i seek to get what ever grant I can, I don't take stripends aka the money left over from my fasa, My degree is a technical degree so I get the certifications needed and right now I'm looking for an internship.

When you do all these things its a 60 to 80 hour a week job also to boot I have 10 years of experience within another technical field which I will use as a means to pay off the degree if I cant get a good paying job in my field plus me and my wife are doing all this with a 9 month old child. I work weekends to paying the bills. I literally have become a great time management example and im extremely burned out with one year to go---------- but in the end I will have maybe 10 grand to 15 grand to pay off after i finish instead of 60 to 80 grand plus i have my certifications and degree and experience within two very closely related technical fields.

so I think if you do go to college have a plan, Seriously have one for if you cant get a job in that field " lucky i just happened to have that" use grants, don't take fasa money unless its for school, buy your own books "way cheaper" then sell them on amazon when your done. On your second year get an internship " looks good on a resume"

you haven't been scammed you need to use the tools available too you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Looking down, hell. I am not picking on your brothers degree. Sensitive much? I am saying that if you spent 25k to be trained a a park ranger so that you can get a good paying job right out of school, you made a bad investment.

People can and do go to school all the time for lots of reasons. I know a guy who just went back for his Doctorate in Philosophy. He knows he will work until he is 77 to pay the note on that one, and he doesn't care, because he loves his job and because he will be called Doctor Soandso instead of Mr. Soandso from now on.

If your aim is ROI - study STEM. If your aim is parks and recreation, study that and don't worry about the money. They can't make you pay back more than a fixed percentage of your monthly net anyway.

Your original post pointed out that he paid 25k or whatever for a degree in Parks and Recreation, and can't find a job. All I was doing is pointing out the DUH factor here. There just aren't a lot of State or Federal park ranger jobs out there, so it's going to be harder to get a job with that degree than it might be with say -- a degree in Nursing, computer science or engineering.

I'm in the UK I did a degree in IT and it cost in total £16,000 which is around $24,000. I nearly didn't go for being scared of the debt. I'm now on £19,000 ($29,000) and pay back around £50 ($76) per month out of £1,800 ($2,700). It's nothing to me, I'm doing the job I love on a decent starting salary that will improve. The old saying speculate to accumulate comes to mind. Doing a degree in a limited field comes with limited opportunities.

Originally posted by Kang69
reply to post by pyramidikal

 

I had to chime in with this comment.

Currently I'm attending college and the textbook prices are laughable and disgusting at the same time.

I'll give you an example. I paid 150. A HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS for a Music appreciation textbook! That's right, in order to appreciate music you have to pay a 150 dollars. Usually they have an option to rent the textbook where you can get it basically half off, but there was no option here.

This whole thing is a giant scam. Textbooks, the education. Oh and by the way, the education is EXACTLY the same level as my high school, with the exception of a creative writing class here and there. The Government and History classes were ALL one textbook, seriously, it was like McGraw Hill 2.0! I honestly can't beleive they're getting away with this.

The new college education is the new high school diploma, you just have to spend 90,000 dollars in debt first.

Really pissing me off.

look up isbn number on the book and buy the book on amazon it's really that simple. Here is what you do take the stipend aka money left over from fasa, once the term starts it will take a couple of weeks hold it to next term then use that money to buy your books, take what is left over from buying the books in a check and give it back to the school you are attending. Books will cost you for 3 of 4 classes in the 200's range but not in the 600's range you just saved 400 dollars you welcome. Sell the books back to amazon "after the classes are done" and you should make about 50 percent of your money back add it to the money you give back to the school with your check and the books now cost you 100 dollars maybe even less.

en.wikipedia.org... here is a link to what the ISBN number is. It should be on your class list which is handed to you after you registered for your classes. If its not go to the book store and ask your the isbn numbers of the books you need.

Unfortunetly I feel there are entirely to many people that try and go to college that shouldnt. Dont get me wrong, am glad to see people go. But it should be earned with good grades and a WANT to learn. Most college kids only decide to go to college because everyone else is, only to find out 2 years down the road that they are still undecided, and have No clue what to do. I graduated College in 2005. Tuition was pretty high then, luckily I knew what I wanted to do, put the hard hours in and graduated in 4 years. not the average 6 years, its taking kids these days. The education system has turned into a business, not a resource for learning, and if you think your teachers care about whether you make it in college or not think again, unless you get lucky and specialize in a certain class, that the teacher likes to teach. Good Luck kids, the Force is against you. but you cant beat it, just dont go to college and then decide what to do 2 years from enrolling, figure that out before you sign up.

reply to post by pheonix358


Dear pheonix358,

How do you know your elites are not studying elsewhere? Have you asked any. If you have a bright young child you may well send them overseas to learn. If you are an elite and you have a dumb SOB as a child then you send them to where you can pay for success. You need to do that at home! Remember this, the system in the USA and many other placed revolves around money, not learning. Chinese students that come to the USA and BTW Australia are the elites of their country. They come for two reasons. One is the degree, the other is to learn about the country! I would even say that that is the primary reason to send kids o/s for education.

I studied with them. I have been to college and graduate school. Few Americans will bother with foreign schools. Oxford is on the list, that is about it. The last piece of information, of infrastructure, the last thing a country sells is it's knowledge base.