Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

www.marketwatch.com...

Class of 2013,

No one else is going to tell you this, so I might as well.

You sit here today, $30,000 or $40,000 in debt, as the latest victims of what may well be the biggest conspiracy in U.S. history. It is a conspiracy so big and powerful that Dan Brown won’t even touch it. It’s a conspiracy so insidious that you will rarely hear its name.

Move over, Illuminati. Stand down, Wall Street. Area 51? Pah. It’s nothing.

The biggest conspiracy of all? The College-Industrial Complex.

Consider this: You have just paid about three times as much for your degree as did someone graduating 30 years ago. That’s in constant dollars — in other words, after accounting for inflation. There is no evidence that you have received a degree three times as good. Some would wonder if you have received a degree even one times as good.

According to the College Board, in 1983 a typical private American university managed to provide a bachelor’s-degree-level education to young people just like you for $11,000 a year in tuition and fees. That’s in 2012 dollars.

Instead, those of you at private colleges paid this year an average of $29,000.

And back then a public college charged in-state students just $2,200 a year in tuition and fees — in today’s dollars. You could get a full four-year degree for $8,800. Today that will get you one year’s tuition, or $8,700.

Notice, please, we are not even counting the cost of all the “extras,” like room and board. This is just the cost of the teaching.

It is, as a result, no surprise that total student loans are now approaching $1 trillion. They have easily overtaken credit-card debts and car loans. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, total student loans have basically tripled since 2004. Fed researcher Lee Donghoon says that in the last eight years the number of borrowers has gone up by about 70%, and the average amount owed has also gone up about 70%.

Donghoon calculates that about 17% of those with student loans are more than 90 days’ delinquent on their interest payments. Yet he also calculates that 44% haven’t even entered the repayment period at all.

If you turn to the pages of any newspaper, you will read a lot of hand-wringing about this. You will hear attacks on “predatory” student-loan companies and “predatory ... for-profit colleges.” You will hear about cutbacks in Pell Grants and federal aid and proposals to lower the interest rate on subsidized federal loans. But all of these comments ignore one basic problem.

It’s the cost, stupid.

U.S. colleges are a rip-off. Two decades ago I spent six years at Cambridge and Oxford universities, and it didn’t cost me a nickel. Admittedly, one reason was social policy: The taxpayers paid the bill (and a very good return they earned too, given the British taxes I paid once I graduated and started work). But the second reason was that these universities did not charge an arm, leg and other appendage for the act of teaching.

My undergraduate course at Cambridge largely consisted of one hour a week with a tutor, a weekly essay question and research list, and a library card. This teaching model hadn’t changed much, really, since the days of Aristotle. Student, teacher, discussion. See you same time next week.

How on earth do colleges today ramp up costs to $40,000 a year?

Even though we all know about this issue, this article really caught my eye and made me think about things like that, how grateful I can be for this country choosing the other road.

40k a year is too much and starting life with a huge loan is even worse. I feel sorry for the kids who have to suffer like that. Best of luck for the future for anybody starting their career in the coming years, as it is not going to be easy.

reply to post by Cabin


I have seen this fiasco throughout my life, since ’79. People go off to college expecting big things in their future, but mainly going to party. And then it doesn’t pan out.

“Networking, networking, networking” is the catch phrase. And as long as you produce, it pays off. If you don’t, then it is a black mark that cannot be erased.

I’ve known a few successful grads, but only a few. The most realistically cannot be construed as such.

The majority of the people I grew up with that can be considered successful are those who went into the trades or started their own business.

Hell, I’m a High School dropout and the first in my class to retire at 48. Needless to say, the reunions can be testy. Many are pissed.

Very true. I graduated from highschool in 2010, and upon graduating, wanted to take some time off before college. Fastforward three years later, and I still haven't enrolled. Why? Mainly because of how expensive college has become. I have no interest in saddling myself with the amount of debt that so many other students now have hanging over their heads. Would attending college even be worth it in light of how poor the job market is? Men and women with Bachelors Degrees, Masters Degrees, etc. find themselves working at gas stations, restauraunts, fast food joints, etc. And really, there is nothing wrong with those jobs. But what use is the degree that they paid and worked so hard for in those positions? Is the cost truly worth the return?

No. While I would genuinely love to attend college, I doubt it will be in the U.S. Not unless things change, which I very much doubt will happen anytime soon.

S+F for the thread, thanks for authoring it.

My brother just graduated from UGA two Friday's ago and majored in Natural Parks Recreation and Tourism, he is now $25,000+ in debt for only two years worth of schooling, and that's not even including room and board, that part was separate.

The sad part is, he isn't even guaranteed a job, and his field isn't exactly booming either. He'll probably be in debt for 10-20 years or longer and that's IF he finds a good job. I don't think they even care about the money, they just like knowing that you owe them something.

It's disgusting in my opinion and something HAS to be done about it, though I doubt anything will be done. The whole time I was at the graduation, I was thinking that the graduates were only cheering for a piece of paper and thousands of dollars in debt, and they didn't even know or realize it. It's the biggest scam in the world, yet people are encouraged to sign up for it and are congratulated for being scammed!

He majored in Natural Parks and Recreational Tourism?

You see, there's a problem, right there....

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


You can't knock him for going for what he loves can you? Sure, he signed up for it, but it's still ridiculous how much they charge for such a minor field and degree. $25,000 for two years of college? Really? I think it's wrong on so many levels personally.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No disagreement re: the costs here, but frankly I don't see Recreation Management as a degree program. It's a perfectly legitimate interest, and hell - maybe there is a certificate program in there somewhere, but a full Bachelors degree? And can't imagine such a program could maintain significant academic rigor.

Why not go overseas, live in another country for four years, have a four year working holiday and get a degree while you are at it. Check around. Come to getting a job you have something very different from the crowd.

It is something to think about. Consider that the cost of living in other countries is often (But not always) less and you have a solution. If the SHTF while you are away, well, you will be out of it.

P

reply to post by Cabin


Dear Cabin,

I am concerned that people are only talking about how much money one makes because they have a college degree. Being educated in and of itself has a value. There are a lot of articles coming out talking about how it doesn't pay to go to college, it can if you go there to learn. There is currently a bill before congress to make colleges tell students how much money their students make. If you go to college to be a teacher, you won't make much; but, the people that do it want to be teachers and we need teachers. I went to school so that I could work in government, I never thought I would make much money.

In college, I began to see how the world works and that has had value. The people who went to college just to get a degree, they didn't learn much. The people who went to college just to make money didn't learn much. They learned how to repeat what they were told. I know what is coming, we are going to see fewer and fewer Americans going to college and the colleges will spend more time training the Chinese, it is already happening. There will be fewer and fewer Americans with college degrees and more and more Chinese. You only have to look at the statistics for the University of California to see that we are selling our knowledge to the Chinese. If college has ceased being relevent, why are so many foreigners paying so much money (more than Americans) to attend American colleges?

reply to post by AQuestion

If college has ceased being relevent, why are so many foreigners paying so much money (more than Americans) to attend American colleges?

Because when those Chinese go for a job back home their degree will stand out compared to the thousands of people who did it at home. They are therefore more likely to get the better jobs. They also know their enemy, oops, sorry, I meant customers better.

It may also turn the tide so your toasters instructions will be readable.

P

30 years ago. Bring your pencils, an eraser, a red and blue pen, and a ruler. These books will cost you xyz. Treat your education as employment.

today. Bring a usb stick. These pdf files can be downloaded from the student intranet. If you can work from home, trollolol.

You have to pay for the servers some how man... and the guys to support it. And the boss to tell them what to do and when to do it. And the program managers to tell the manager what to do. And the department to get the funds which never come under budget to ensure next years budget is maintained. And the interdepartment correspondence needs to be archived and kept for 7 years so there is transparency across the college or education environment.

Yep, bring a pencil.. lmao.. Oo

Not only this, but to get that job washing dishes at the local restaurant, you need a cert 2 in hospitality and maintaining a sterile workplace. Possibly working towards an OH&S certificate. Then you can sweep the floors.

I dunno, on every level it's failing as far as I can see. Not failing so bad that it needs to be fixed, because by time the next generation have come along, it's simply the status quo and those old fogeys with their metallicas and ac/dc music, they're almost dead now, let me just tweet this now, brb yolo

reply to post by pheonix358


Dear pheonix358,

Because when those Chinese go for a job back home their degree will stand out compared to the thousands of people who did it at home. They are therefore more likely to get the better jobs. They also know their enemy, oops, sorry, I meant customers better. It may also turn the tide so your toasters instructions will be readable. P

LOL, what a great answer. Let us remember this though, the Chinese don't get paid as much, yet, the degree is still worth it. The Chinese that come to our colleges don't come here to party and are very successful. China has colleges and colleges are a great place to network. The Chinese come here because the learning is unrestricted. The Chinese that come here have an unrestricted internet. They get to see things that the rest of their country does not.

I have met with Chinese representatives interested in my industry. They are looking to see what they can learn from the rest of the world. I cannot blame them for that. If our colleges are so bad, why aren't we going to their colleges? If another country has the best colleges, why aren't our elites going there?

I'm glad people are finally starting to talk about this, as I have been screaming about it for years now.

The unfortunate part is, it is too late. The bubble has been created. Too many people out there with student debt that they will not be able to pay. The bubble is going to burst, and its going to happen fairly soon.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


He got his associates, not bachelors, which is why I mentioned him going to school for two years. Bachelor's takes four years. I'm not sure why your looking down on the degree, it's a legitimate one even if you don't think so. It's part of the curriculum for a reason.

reply to post by AQuestion

I have met with Chinese representatives interested in my industry. They are looking to see what they can learn from the rest of the world. I cannot blame them for that. If our colleges are so bad, why aren't we going to their colleges? If another country has the best colleges, why aren't our elites going there?

As you have said, they study hard. I think you will find they go way outside the required lessons. They learn as much of 'how Americans do it' as much as how it should be done.

How do you know your elites are not studying elsewhere? Have you asked any. If you have a bright young child you may well send them overseas to learn. If you are an elite and you have a dumb SOB as a child then you send them to where you can pay for success. You need to do that at home!

Remember this, the system in the USA and many other placed revolves around money, not learning.

Chinese students that come to the USA and BTW Australia are the elites of their country. They come for two reasons. One is the degree, the other is to learn about the country! I would even say that that is the primary reason to send kids o/s for education.

P

The scam is obvious to any student, when they end up paying $100.00 for a tiny book with few pages. (This is common now), not only are the colleges scamming the students, the publishers are in full scam mode as well. Do you think these book publishers should charge these insane prices? Are these books signed by Jimi Hendrix? Nope, they are 10 to 20 dollar books, but the second they become required material they magically go from 50 to 100 a piece. It makes me sick.

reply to post by Cabin


Dear class of 2013 - learn how to flip burgers. If you coming out of college with an English Lit degree - also, learn how to flip burgers.

Now, if you got an engineering degree - that is different or a BSN or something meaningful - but most of you didn't

You did the easy degree and you will get what you paid for - in more than money.

You get what you pay for.

Joe

Let's see here, almost have my student loans paid off from 15 years ago, and haven't done much with my degrees in Engineering. Community colleges were horrible back then, not even the counselors could give quality services. Ended up taking a lot more credit hours than I needed, plus I needed a couple more "new" classes to fully graduate. Through appeals I graduated with honors and I did have good teachers and retained most my knowledge to this day.

I do recall text books being about half the total cost for a year of community college. That was the biggest scandal most likely. Luckily we got grants too, because the interest on the loans is INSANE. Peace, Xenongod

Get a real job, learn some things and life skills and how to relate to people, go work for yourself, start a business, make some good money......and then pay a university graduate to do your books for you for $40,000 a year!!!!







You need money but if you have no time to enjoy it it's a waste of time (!).
If you have heaps of time but no money then that is also a waste of time.

University (and it's only my opinion so don't freak out) is just for those without the talent to go out and do something new.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

 

You can't knock him for going for what he loves can you? Sure, he signed up for it, but it's still ridiculous how much they charge for such a minor field and degree. $25,000 for two years of college? Really? I think it's wrong on so many levels personally.

It does seem kind of expensive and the middle class takes it on the chin, but at least he has a degree. That helps in most fields anyway. The employer wants to know that you were able to sit in classes for a few years without quitting or getting kicked out.