Predestined for Glorification

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Well, you have a philosophy and nice for you.
Maybe I am just different and believe in the Bible.
You mention God and Jesus, so how do you know about them?
Did you make them up yourself.
If not, my next guess would be that you got it from the Bible.
Well, then. believe it.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


That was a genius post. I would add that it goes against our own reasoning that such a thing could occur on our behalf. The speck of dust that comprises our soul is know personally by God, loved by Him and nurtured each moment we are away from Him. In the end, one single consciousness develops fellowship with uniquely created forms of life that previously did not exist. We are not robots, but uniquely developed creatures of our own making. God allows our own autonomy, guides the process, but then steps back and allows our own individuality to show through. What we bind here is bound in Heaven. What we let go of here is released from us in Heaven. All of it is the infinity of who we are compared to the perfected God of the ages. If there were no difference, there would be no individuality. I assume that our progression through the harmonies of grace and mercy is endless. We will always rise toward the goal.

reply to post by jmdewey60


I am seeing a salvation by Grace versus a salvation by Works subtext here. My understanding is that Salvation is by Grace through Faith, and even that Faith is a gift of God. The relevant verse hangs on my wall at all times. Sanctification may involve Works, and probably does, but I know that Adventism is a "works" program, and I seem to recall that you are an Adventist, jmdewey60. I am not trying to start an argument, but just to understand where you are coming from...

reply to post by Lazarus Short

My understanding is that Salvation is by Grace through Faith, and even that Faith is a gift of God.

OK, that is a paraphrase of a verse in Ephesians, which is a forgery purported to be by Paul, but not actually written by him, but it echoes what Paul had taught, but in a condensed version.
The trick is understanding what each of those words mean, and to do that, you need to read the authentic writings of Paul.
When you do, you discover that it means something different than what it may seem like it is saying based on your own interpretation that comes from the modern pop-culture religion version of what those words mean.

Sanctification may involve Works, and probably does

What I have concluded recently by studying all the verses where that word is used, is that it always mean in a group way of understanding it. This is why so many people are confused by it. It is never used to refer to an individual persons status, but by a believing community.

. . . I seem to recall that you are an Adventist . . .

Which is not a monolithic, creed spouting, orthodoxy enforcing institution. There are people all over the map in that denomination in regard to how to interpret that verse. 60 years ago, maybe what you are saying would be more true. What they were promoting back then was this idea of Ellen White's that in the time of tribulation, we need to be at a point where we are not committing sins.
People generally in Christianity today see sins in a relativistic way, where maybe some sins are worse than others. Sin, as I see it, means fail. It is the difference between going to heaven or going to hell. People have a tendency to downgrade what a sin is by including everyday human failings, where it really should mean something more like 'mortal sins' of the sort of way that the Catholic Church used the term.
What foes that mean, and then you find yourself in the position that Paul did, thinking "what is the matter with you people, what do you think sin is, it means you don't go partying and having affairs with the wives of your neighbors, and you don't rob from or murder your neighbors, and what you should be doing is helping people in need and loving others'.
If you want to call it 'works based', then OK, but no one is going to heaven with blood on their hands after murdering thewir neighbor because they were in a bad mood or something.

reply to post by kijne

Even though we are saved by grace it does not mean that we can still live in sin. We need to live by the Spirit and not the flesh.

The flesh can not live without sin in this fallen state for very long. Just try and you may find your self wondering through the desart seeking death. This is why we constantly seek repentance. Most were born into spiritual debt and seek their punishment through suffering and making love without knowing they are being led by their spirit. The system has a flaw because their was no way to control spirits incarnating completely full of sin only to be paid in one lifetime by a mass killing.

Sexual punishment and slavery are the foundation of our spiritual growth in the flesh and the bible tells the story. Their has always been an increase in what the flesh views as a lack of morality before GOD steps in and releases all the tormented souls only to be born again into a less debtful role. We are at the point of harvest now and this time we will have a chance to avoid the sting of death and be set out of the way while those with debt are given a choice to lay down their life for GOD by rejecting the mark. At that point things are gonna be bad because the only ones left are completely full of sin so much that they will be sent to a lake of fire for long suffering so that mankind does not have to deal with what we have now days.

Now is the time to work out your punishment with the holy spirit and your sub conscious mind and seek what you desire out as long as it does not harm others. For everyone else it is time to give love.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Thanks for the feedback and yes, I agree with you.

And the evidence to a large degree for it, is that we're still here, so it's an open invitation and an opportunity presented to us by God through life, posited from a domain of limitless creative possibility where God lives, as an invitation to join him and be with him where he is. So then we look to Jesus' motivations and desires and see the same thing again, but again in a way that completely defied our common sense and expectation. God's Grace is Serendipitous because it's a hidden treasure not sought after which when it arrives and arrive it inevitably will, takes us entirely by surprise and not by expectation or according to what we once considered to be reasonable. It's ultra-reasonable or unreasonably reasonable, that's the reason and the purpose and the love of God in the person of Jesus Christ - let us better understand and sympathize with his mind and heart.

In and through Jesus and his Great Work or Magnum Opus, all wickedness and evil is bound (strong man) and yet bounded by the love of God which is unbounded. In this way NO power or principality (including our own ego), whether of this world or any other, can separate us from the love of God in Jesus Christ ie: we've been adopted and liberated as true children of God within the context and the framework of the brotherhood of man AND God and thus, the whole of the all-in-all (house of God)..

This is a great marvel, of the farthest reaching implications and significance for the human being, and even a cosmic joke told through us capable of raising the roof and evoking a response right across the entire breadth of "the table" of God's wedding reception, a table he's prepared for us from the time before time (by virtue of our inclusion) and even one made in the presence of our enemies if they do not have the good sense to get the joke, or like the elder brother in the parable of the Prodigal Son, refuse to join the celebration of the return of the lost son who is all of humanity, including last but not least, or even first, as last (since given enough time anything is possible), you, and me..

The Gospel goes much much higher and farther than most give it credit, imho.

And Jesus once fully understood and recognized, is not only the epitome of wisdom, truth and justice, but also good-natured, good-willed humor capable of getting the last laugh at the devil's expense, and that's another reason that I love him, for winning and taking back everything of value, so that it might be shared with us, as it was intended by God from the very moment of creation and before (before the foundation of the world).

Best regards,

NAM

P.S. Thank you Jesus, for outsmarting everyone and the devil and creating a return path back to God for the human being even in spite of ourselves. I love you too.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by kijne

 

Even though we are saved by grace it does not mean that we can still live in sin. We need to live by the Spirit and not the flesh.

The flesh can not live without sin in this fallen state for very long. Just try and you may find your self wondering through the desart seeking death. This is why we constantly seek repentance. Most were born into spiritual debt and seek their punishment through suffering and making love without knowing they are being led by their spirit. The system has a flaw because their was no way to control spirits incarnating completely full of sin only to be paid in one lifetime by a mass killing.

Sexual punishment and slavery are the foundation of our spiritual growth in the flesh and the bible tells the story. Their has always been an increase in what the flesh views as a lack of morality before GOD steps in and releases all the tormented souls only to be born again into a less debtful role. We are at the point of harvest now and this time we will have a chance to avoid the sting of death and be set out of the way while those with debt are given a choice to lay down their life for GOD by rejecting the mark. At that point things are gonna be bad because the only ones left are completely full of sin so much that they will be sent to a lake of fire for long suffering so that mankind does not have to deal with what we have now days.

Now is the time to work out your punishment with the holy spirit and your sub conscious mind and seek what you desire out as long as it does not harm others. For everyone else it is time to give love.

You are kidding right? Who defined the sexual punishment and slavery and why is it the foundation of spiritual growth IN THE FLESH. Why were we born of clay to subdeterrmine ourselves as a lack of morality? We are gross matter in the 3rd D. Lack of morality before God HE CREATES us as 3D, what is this; the grand joke? God steps in WHEN? I thought that happened at the creation moment (we become GODform Matter). We are being harvested? and can avoid the sting of death if we set out a way giving up debt. TO WHOM? WHO IS THE ENCOMBRANCE OF SIN? The only ones left are completely full and sent to a lake of fire. Punishment? BELONGS TO YOUR INSANE RAMBLINGS. Seriously, (you must live on the shore of the lake of fire as YOU CAN VISION IT so perfectly in such BEAUTY). You obviously are the first jailer holding the circle of keys to all FATE and DESTINY hell bent. You fail to answer my posts; and this I have cause to see is very RUDE.

Originally posted by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by kijne

 

Even though we are saved by grace it does not mean that we can still live in sin. We need to live by the Spirit and not the flesh.

The flesh can not live without sin in this fallen state for very long. Just try and you may find your self wondering through the desart seeking death. This is why we constantly seek repentance. Most were born into spiritual debt and seek their punishment through suffering and making love without knowing they are being led by their spirit. The system has a flaw because their was no way to control spirits incarnating completely full of sin only to be paid in one lifetime by a mass killing.

Sexual punishment and slavery are the foundation of our spiritual growth in the flesh and the bible tells the story. Their has always been an increase in what the flesh views as a lack of morality before GOD steps in and releases all the tormented souls only to be born again into a less debtful role. We are at the point of harvest now and this time we will have a chance to avoid the sting of death and be set out of the way while those with debt are given a choice to lay down their life for GOD by rejecting the mark. At that point things are gonna be bad because the only ones left are completely full of sin so much that they will be sent to a lake of fire for long suffering so that mankind does not have to deal with what we have now days.

Now is the time to work out your punishment with the holy spirit and your sub conscious mind and seek what you desire out as long as it does not harm others. For everyone else it is time to give love.

You are kidding right? Who defined the sexual punishment and slavery and why is it the foundation of spiritual growth IN THE FLESH. Why were we born of clay to subdeterrmine ourselves as a lack of morality? We are gross matter in the 3rd D. Lack of morality before God HE CREATES us as 3D, what is this; the grand joke? God steps in WHEN? I thought that happened at the creation moment (we become GODform Matter). We are being harvested? and can avoid the sting of death if we set out a way giving up debt. TO WHOM? WHO IS THE ENCOMBRANCE OF SIN? The only ones left are completely full and sent to a lake of fire. Punishment? BELONGS TO YOUR INSANE RAMBLINGS. Seriously, (you must live on the shore of the lake of fire as YOU CAN VISION IT so perfectly in such BEAUTY). You obviously are the first jailer holding the circle of keys to all FATE and DESTINY hell bent. You fail to answer my posts; and this I have cause to see is very RUDE.

edit on 20-5-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)

God defined the punishments here on earth. After the fall mankind went into debt and some sins against GOD are so severe as to require punishment in a lake of fire but he gave many a choice to live out their punishments in the flesh out of love for us. God steps in when the harvest is ripe. When the most souls are out of debt. Those souls will be the fore fathers and mothers of the new kingdom. Your debt is paid to the evil one that rules the air through suffering. Many souls here today choose to pay their debts in childhood and many later on and many have so much debt that resorting to mass killings is there only way to pay. It is our job to keep that from happening. As far as the keys to hell i have been told that my father holds them but who would ever believe something like that.

reply to post by deadeyedick

Romans 13 New International Version (NIV)

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

Mark 3:28-29
28 Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter,

29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

Psalms 85:2
"Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah."

Jesus Christ promised forgiveness of sins to all. However only the one who pursues love will be lead by the Spirit of Love, who is Christ Jesus.

There is no dept but the dept we owe to Christ, to love one another.

reply to post by sacgamer25


So are you trying to say that GOD does not punish? Every sin gives you debt. Yes if you accept Jesus now your debt is paid in full by his sacrifice but the contrite will never be able to bow to Jesus because of their debt.

Jesus Christ promised forgiveness of sins to all. However only the one who pursues love will be lead by the Spirit of Love, who is Christ Jesus. There is no dept but the dept we owe to Christ, to love one another.

There is much truth in your words.

reply to post by deadeyedick


War, famine, hunger, plague. Fighting, Greed, Coveting

I think God disciplines us each and every day for the things we do against love.

For the one who does not pursue love cannot find it. If you pursue greed, you find greed.

If you pursue love you find love. Salvation can only be found in love.

reply to post by sacgamer25

War, famine, hunger, plague

My point is that in my perspective of things a child born suffering and dying in those conditions can only be explained through past life sins against GOD. Honestly there is just too much seemingly unjust suffering taking place that has no other explanation other than spiritual debt and some forms of hell on earth.

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

War, famine, hunger, plague

My point is that in my perspective of things a child born suffering and dying in those conditions can only be explained through past life sins against GOD. Honestly there is just too much seemingly unjust suffering taking place that has no other explanation other than spiritual debt and some forms of hell on earth.

I don't see any conflict between Christ and Reincarnation. If that helps you make since of all the craziness than you should hold onto it. For me I see heaven as the kingdom of love. I believe it is possible for man to catch a glimpse of heaven here on earth, we call it Joy. Pure Joy is what I believe awaits, and what that looks or feels like I have no idea.

So I tend to see it this way. We each have one life and many decisions to make. We suffer through our decisions and the decisions of others. However I believe this is hell; this is the place we suffer for our sins. We trap ourselves in a mental state of hell/depression as we fall further away from love and truth.

But I believe it is possible to pursue love to the point where love becomes your addiction. When love becomes your addiction you can pursue it almost perfectly. To pursue love perfectly would be to be without sin. This is our challenge, we get as far as we get in this life.

After this life I believe the physical and all things that cause sin become no more. And thus all of us come together in love. What that means exactly I do not know. But I believe this is about as close of a description to heaven and hell as I can give.