The Mistakes of Christianity

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by micmerci
Point 6- The books that were omitted from the canon were done so because of Textual Criticism. This statement stands as the rebuttal of your point or do you believe that you possess more knowledge than the scores of textual criticism scholars that have dedicated their lives to authenticating writings from antiquity?

Wait a minute, wait a minute! I thought the bible was written with the holy spirit guiding the pens of the authors? And, this god-approved book was edited by man, with parts of it removed?

That is a common fallacy. God inspired the Bible, He didn't dictate it. People received revelation of the truth and expressed it as best as they could with their limited human capacity. Paul quoted pagan philosophers and poets when he preached, and a close reading of his letters shows that not every word came from above (for example, when he wrote that he hadn't baptized anybody, but then in the next verse, remembers that he did.)

Far from damaging my faith, I find that these things increase it. I believe that God is the God of all truth-whatever its source, that He is big enough to use any means to reveal Himself, and that the essential truths are what matters the most.

I apologize in advance, but this video just seemed so right for this thread!

reply to post by Snsoc

I believe that God is the God of all truth-whatever its source, that He is big enough to use any means to reveal Himself,

Any means to reveal himself? We're talking about god, right? The all-powerful, all-knowing entity that created the universe and performs miracles? And yet, he doesn't have the means to simply appear before everyone to reveal himself to us? Don't you find this an unacceptable contradiction?

The christian god is a contradiction in its self. One can not be omnipotent and omnipresent yet there be a Antigod, devil, or hell. Also you can't say that the Antigod or devil is gods way of testing people because if he was truly omnipotent he would already know the out come.

Again you are showing your lack of understanding towards Judaism and Christianity in general. I agree however that many Christians have no clue what they are talking about, but this is because they do not take the time to actually understand what the Bible says. The Ten Commandments were included in Moses' law to the Israelites. All the things you mention were part of the law that the Israelites were supposed to follow. There were literally hundreds of these laws.

But Christians do NOT follow Judaism. They are Christians for a reason. They believe that Jesus came as the ultimate sacrifice for mankind's sins, and as such the laws of Moses were nullified. They were no longer needed. So Christians do not practice Judaism nor do they follow the laws of Moses. The reason Christians are not supposed to kill and do other obviously bad things is because they are supposed to attempt to live as Jesus lived, and Jesus made it explicitly clear that each person was to show nothing but love to every other person they encountered.

So by attacking the laws of Moses you are not attacking Christianity, because the two really have nothing to do with one another. Those who believe they do are just wrong, plain and simple.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

They believe that Jesus came as the ultimate sacrifice for mankind's sins, and as such the laws of Moses were nullified

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not yet passed.

I don't think that Jesus would have wanted people to abandon the "law."

Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

The law had been added to for political and financial gain and had become corrupted by the temple leaders and their scribes. It wasn't working and people were confused how to interpret it.

When the Roman destroyed the temple during the Jewish Wars, the Jewish temple rituals and sacrifices stopped, but not because of Jesus, but because of the Romans. Later, the new Roman Catholic Church would make Jewishness illegal.

You have to read Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus by Joseph Atwill

Link:
The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

If you do not have the time to read the book even though it is an amazing "game changing" book please watch the documentary based on this book:

www.youtube.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Youtube Documentary

..I believe the youtube video was removed. I have the documentary but if you can download it from somewhere do not hesitate to do so.

What a convincing hypothesis! Joseph Atwill, layer by layer, has built a solid foundation for his theory which challenges all we know about the origins of Christianity. His intense and structured research of the Gospels, as well as the works of Josephus, are the basis for his belief in a Flavian creation of "the Saviour of the World." With impeccable observations, Atwill recreates this 2,000 year old timeline -- and his answers fit like a the lost pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Eureka! The only reason this type of theory could never have been presented until now is due to censorship by the Church!

By Agnostica ....

Originally posted by lisa2012
You have to read Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus by Joseph Atwill

Link:
The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

If you do not have the time to read the book even though it is an amazing "game changing" book please watch the documentary based on this book:

www.youtube.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Youtube Documentary

What a convincing hypothesis! Joseph Atwill, layer by layer, has built a solid foundation for his theory which challenges all we know about the origins of Christianity. His intense and structured research of the Gospels, as well as the works of Josephus, are the basis for his belief in a Flavian creation of "the Saviour of the World." With impeccable observations, Atwill recreates this 2,000 year old timeline -- and his answers fit like a the lost pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Eureka! The only reason this type of theory could never have been presented until now is due to censorship by the Church!

By Agnostica ....

I've seen this. It's very compelling, in my opinion. But you're going to find a lot of Atwill haters here on ATS! LOL

Ah, link doesn't work. Here's a promo

Like I always say, the worst parts of Christianity are the ones that aren't actually in it- such as American supremacy, capitalism, torture, monogamy, etc.

The fact that there are such widely varying views of a supposedly divinely created religion (money's good, money's evil, god is peace, god is war, etc) make it pretty obvious to me that it's a creation of man.

reply to post by allenidaho

In Exodus 34:13 the real ten commandments are listed which go something like this:

The first set of 10 commandments on the tablet that was broken was to remain, which is why they are referred to even in the new testament.
The second set mentioned Exodus 34, were additional commands made before the covenant.
God didn't change his mind about the first set just because Moses broke the tablet they were written on.

His real name was Yeshua.

Well, everybody refers to Jesus in their own language. Where I live people call him "Yesu-swami", (Yesu = Jesus, Swami = title of respect). Doesn't mean they are referring to a different person.

I must say after reading the OP I must say its always nice reading others views on religion, spirituality and the sorts. Although most likely to say any time this type of debate is brought up their will be feud. It is sad i know but its the truth.

My personal view on all of this is just mine and that's it. I grew up in a very religious environment i was christened or what ever its called as a child. Grew up with the belief that god was my almighty savior. Then when i was older moved in with my father and he believed in Norse mythology. He believes in the runes and he told me months after he left my mom he read his runes and they predicted he would lose his freedom or something and shortly after he was incarcerated for 7 years in prison. Now as a kid growing up I came up with my own conclusion and I know it seems out their but its what I stand

My view on religion is no matter what the persons belief is you cant tell them they are wrong or right. For the simple fact we were not alive when all of this went down. And as for god i believe he did create us but he is not the so called all loving god we supposedly know. He is just a creator of life heck we can create life so does that mean we are god in a sense? As for the bible and all the verses that were taken out I asked my aunt. I cant disclose her name or her source for I don't really think she would be pleased to know that I am sharing what me and her talk about with everyone else. I asked her about the bible and keep in mind she is very religious and believes in god as a christian. I asked her if the general population will be able to ever read the true bible the first one ever written. Her repositioned not word for word as for this conversations happen a few years ago I cant remember word for word ahah. But she told me that the true bible was lost and destroyed long ago. Man did its best to recreate it and use it to its advantage for the simple fact most of the population back then did not know how to read or write. So that gave the ones that did complete control over those that didn't. Waging wars for holy rights. And so on and so on I cant really remember what i really remember mostly is when i asked her about our true origins. Was man really created or were we brought here by asteroids? She told me that she will not answer that question for the simple fact man places its self so high on the pedastol.

Now I will be visiting my aunt his summer and hope to get into conversations pertaining my true family and other stuff and i will see if she can be more open with me now that I am older but I highly doubt it she is very skeptic about what she says and what info she gives me or anyone for that matter. I remember seeing Men all dressed in black when i was younger visitor her often and when i asked what they wanted sh would always tell me thy were just trying to sell her stuff. But it was the same 2 guys over haaha

All I truly have to say thought is keep and open mind about religion and others beliefs for I do. I welcome knowledge of others for I am young and always looking for more information to fill my mind. with. For all we know god could of been a talking cow but hey WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE TRUTH. So best thing to do is come up with what you feel is right and just go with it but don't tel others that their beliefs or ideologies are wrong because they don't make sense to you they probably ma sense to that person though.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Snsoc

 

I believe that God is the God of all truth-whatever its source, that He is big enough to use any means to reveal Himself,

Any means to reveal himself? We're talking about god, right? The all-powerful, all-knowing entity that created the universe and performs miracles? And yet, he doesn't have the means to simply appear before everyone to reveal himself to us? Don't you find this an unacceptable contradiction?

Of course He has the means. But it's a fair question. Why doesn't God just show himself to us-or even just to you, jiggerj, and settle the argument once and for all?

Well, considering that if such a meeting took place and you survived it-that the glory, majesty and holiness of God didn't just convert you into energy the moment you laid eyes on Him, then what? You'd go, yup. you're real, and I believe in you (or rather, we would call it "knowledge" and not "belief.")

So then He'd probably go away, and you'd be good for a while, but then doubt would creep in. Did I really see that? Was my mind just playing tricks on me? The further you got away from the event, the more you'd seek a rational explanation for your experience.

Time passes. You tell your kids, "Hey, I met God once," and they believe you. Maybe your grand kids too, out of respect. But each generation believes the story a little less. You think it's important, so you start writing your experience down. And that works for a while, but then a couple hundred years later, people start doubting your written testimony.

You see where I'm going with this.

So, obviously, the only way for God to maintain this first-hand knowledge of Himself is just to hang out in the sky all day long, so that everyone can see him. Then there is zero doubt, and hey, probably not much sin, because He's right there.

And then He has a problem. See, it's easy to obey the law when a king is watching you, but that'd be no real test of a good person, is it? And what complicates matters more is that the king in question has banned you from doing certain things that seem harmless-even natural. As a final kicker, the king wants you to follow the laws-not from fear of his prisons, but because he is secretly the maker of all creation, and he wants you to LOVE him. And not for anything you can get out of it either, but just because he says it's proper and correct, for reasons that you don't understand yet. And the only way for you to demonstrate beyond any possible argument that you do love him is that he hides himself and invites you to seek him out, to put down your pride and trust him.

That is the best way I can explain it to you at this time.

reply to post by allenidaho


It goes back to the same thing you did in grade school. Get all the class in a line and tell the first kid the story and by the time the story gets to the end of the line the story is completely changed...

Now take a carpenter and tell a story and let it pass over generations and see how convoluted and outrageous it becomes!!

Wow. For an Atheist you know more than some Christians...well done, well the second one anyway.

However, it's a bit disturbing an atheist is so interested in the bible...I don't mean disturbing for us, I mean disturbing for you..

In the first the Lord wrote the tablets and gave them to Moses. In the second the same and then the Lord spoke other words and told Moses to write them down. The content of the tablets is not recorded in Exodus for a second time, since the content was the same as originally. That's the way I've always seen it but points for trying.

But you are right with the 2nd one. If I call you Fred and your name is Bill, are you any less Bill? Yeshua, Jesus, Christ, Lord and a myriad of other names. He's not offended by Jesus if that's who some see him as as they were taught. Christianity is about relationship not getting a name exact.

But I think you should stick to Atheisim and leave Christianity alone because you're not very good at either.






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Originally posted by micmerci
In Exodus 20 the first ten commandments were given AND the LORD spoke other commands to Moses (v.23 -26). In Exodus 34 v1 the Lord told Moses that He would write on the new stones the words that were written before AND he told Moses to write the covenant He spoke to him. Two separate things- fail.

As far as the name of Jesus- it is English variant of the Hebrew name Yashua. Big deal. Same guy.

NOT TRUE! OP im gonna correct you on this, there was no translation error his named was changed to jesus for a much bigger reason, the greeks and the romans all worshipped Zeus, Je-sus is actually zeus(satan) sus is basically a shortened name for zeus, like pega-sus or dyoni-sus, the list goes on.
SO for all you rational christians, yeah you've been worshiping satan, even on revelations you read this where it says he would take the seat of Jah and make himself exalted before everyone, he's already accomplished this. thanks to a certain group of people called vatican. oh and christians, dont give me that "we arent catholics" look, your whole book is a direct copy to the catholic bible except a few differences on if mary remained a virgin and the 14 apocryphal books.

So as I've mentioned, for all you open minded believers research this and you will see my words are true!

reply to post by allenidaho


Exodus 20 has in it the ritual Decalogue that is meant to be parallel to the ethical Decalogue, and Exodus 34 as a whole is a narrative of the renewal of the covenant following the golden calf incident. The ritual Decalogue is added in light of the golden calf incident, when God's people made a golden calf out of their jewelry and began to worship it. Please note that Moses is commanded to write them, but it is God that writes the new ethical Decalogue, not Moses.

1. When we use the word jealous, we use it to mean "jealous of another person", or envious, because of who that person is or what they have. Notice that in Exodus 20:4-5, we see this again. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." In these verses, God was talking about people making false idols and bowing down and worshipping them, instead of giving their worship to God, to whom it belongs. It's a different use of that word, jealous, when God says that He is jealous. What He is jealous of rightfully belongs to Him and Him alone.

2. It doesn't surprise me that you took this one out of context. Exodus 34:15 says, ""Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices." In other words, God forbid them to make treaties with the pagan unbelievers, because of what would most likely happen: They would bring God's chosen people in and have them partake of their sacrifices to false gods.

3. You realizes Jesus on the cross isn't an idol, right? It can become an idol, but the image of Him on the cross is not what we worship. Jesus's atoning death is the central point of our religion and not a form of idolatry. Do you know what idolatry is?

4. And?

5. And?

6. I'm not seeing where this is going.

7-10. Okay, I guess you gave up.

And now you're going after the name we use for Jesus? Really?

So. No. Christians didn't "get this wrong", you clearly never picked up a Bible or even attended Sunday school for any modicum of time, otherwise you would get this stuff right.

Please go and troll somewhere else, friend.

As a Christian, I say the OP is actually being nice to Christians.

The OP missed to point out that the majority of Christians do not follow what Christ is teaching. I'm not talking about missing just 10% teachings but more like 90%!

Just read the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, then take a look at how an average Christian lives.

Modern Christianity is nothing but the largest collection of hypocrites.

For the majority of Christians, Christianity is just a label to sound cool or righteous maybe but they are very like the Pharisees and pagans they detest so much! It's a big problem we have that the majority would choose to turn a blind eye on.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

1. When we use the word jealous, we use it to mean "jealous of another person", or envious, because of who that person is or what they have. Notice that in Exodus 20:4-5, we see this again. "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." In these verses, God was talking about people making false idols and bowing down and worshipping them, instead of giving their worship to God, to whom it belongs. It's a different use of that word, jealous, when God says that He is jealous. What He is jealous of rightfully belongs to Him and Him alone.

The god of the Old Testament was a jealous god, like a husband is jealous if his wife looks at another man, or if another man looks at her. The wife, according to the Bible is the husband's, and she rightfully belongs to him.

The god of the Old Testament revered jealousy in men as well.

29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled; 30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law. 31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God..." In these verses, God was talking about people making false idols and bowing down and worshipping them, instead of giving their worship to God, to whom it belongs. It's a different use of that word, jealous, when God says that He is jealous. What He is jealous of rightfully belongs to Him and Him alone.

Maybe not you, but many Christians make graven images of their god, Jesus, on a cross and kneel (bow down) before it. They pray to it. An icon of Jesus on the cross, is not Jesus on a cross, and is therefore, a false idol.

A righteous jealousy is to be jealous of someone trying to take something of yours. An unrighteous jealousy is to be jealous of something someone else has. There's a difference. God deserves all worship, so yes, I don't blame him in the least for being jealous.

As for idol worshippers, true Christians have no need for them. In Martin Luther's last sermon, he spoke of his disappointment at Christians in Germany for making great journeys across Europe to be in the midst of "holy relics", like the pants of Joseph. Idol worship is forbid in Scripture, and any Christians who makes or keeps idols is more a pagan than a Christian.

reply to post by Siberbat

How many drug addicts have recovered by reading Thomas Paine, how many broken lives have been healed by the writings of Ingersol

My life has taken a dramatic turn for the better after ingesting ancient Ayahuasca...no reading of Paine or God necessary. A simple realization of the fact that you are the driver of your life, creator of happiness or sadness...it all originates in your mind. God does also.

The comfort and hope that you speak off...is within everyone of us.