To Vilify the Ego

reply to post by HarryTZ

The physical organism can be said to be individual. You are not the physical organism.

The physical organism that is typing this post is my sole medium of connecting with, experiencing, and learning from, this world. I feel everything it feels, remember most of what it had done and said, and my survival depends upon its continued functionality. For all intensive purposes, I am this vessel. I don't think it's possible to be this body more than I am right now - and will be for the rest of my life. No one knows more about this body than I do, and no one ever will. No one has a deeper connection with this body than I do, and no one ever will. And no one will ever have more reasons to love or hate this body than I do. I own all the exclusive rights to this body. Just as I have defined the purpose of this body through how I use it, this body has defined much of how I think and act.

Considering all the ways and all the time I've been bound to this vessel, I think it's safe to say I am the vessel. Without me, this vessel is nothing. I define it. I define everything about this vessel. I am the vessel, and the vessel is me. Without this vessel, you have none of me.

So don't even think about telling me what I am or am not. This body is as me as anything will ever be. And if you really think you're more right than I am about this, then prove it.

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


I realize the Ego works well as a concept, used to circumscribe various self-seeking tendencies one has; however the way we talk ill of it is simply to talk ill of oneself, but in such a way that is deceptive, removing the opportunity for self-honesty and self criticism.

So I feel it is a little dishonest to demonize a virtual abstraction of oneself and chalk-up all our arrogance, greed, vanity and other egotisms, to a few bodily urges, when the entire drive, urge or instinct of the organism as one whole phenomena is the only thing operating in this fashion.

I think taking this sort of responsibility allows for a progressive learning of oneself. Embracing the egotisms as real and our own, not the product of some specific urges to which we can deem evil, but product of the entire phenomena of a human organism, and understanding them rather than sweeping pieces of ourselves under the carpet, allows for a stronger "ego", a better and richer idea one has of himself, thus reflecting that idea outwards as a higher-quality expression.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

The physical organism that is typing this post is my sole medium of connecting with, experiencing, and learning from, this world. I feel everything it feels, remember most of what it had done and said, and my survival depends upon its continued functionality. For all intensive purposes, I am this vessel. I don't think it's possible to be this body more than I am right now - and will be for the rest of my life. No one knows more about this body than I do. No one has a deeper connection with this body than I do. I own all the exclusive rights to this body. Just as I have defined the purpose of this body through how I use it, this body has defined much of how I think and act.

Considering all the ways and all the time I've been bound to this vessel, I think it's safe to say I am the vessel. Without me, this vessel is nothing. I define it. I define everything about this vessel. I am the vessel, and the vessel is me. Without this vessel, you have none of me.

edit on 20-5-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Your purpose in having a body is to realize that you are not the body.

reply to post by HarryTZ

Your purpose in having a body is to realize that you are not the body.

And if someone were to punch you in the face, how would you feel about that, and why? It's your vessel being abused, not you. It's roughly the same as watching someone punch your car while you're in it.

Oh, and don't presume to tell me what my purpose in having a body is. I'll decide that for myself, thanks.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


That is a good metaphor, yes.

reply to post by HarryTZ


I want a better answer than that. If I walked up to your car while you were sitting in it and punched the door as hard as I could, what would you do? How would you feel? Would you not construe that as an insult to your identity, to the concept of you as a person? Because you define that vehicle. It's just like a thousand other cars in the world, but it's unique in that it belongs to you, is utilized by you, and bears all the hallmarks of your personality. It's as you as the contents of your computer or fridge or cellphone. It was purchased with you in mind, it is driven with you in mind, it can't be acknowledged without acknowledging your existence somewhere in my mind. It is associated with you because its purpose is defined by you. Any assault on it is an insult on your intentions and character. Any damages inflicted on it are a complete disregard for your consideration as a human being. It's comparable to someone slapping you for no reason.

So if I punched it, how would you feel?

reply to post by HarryTZ

Your purpose in having a body is to realize that you are not the body.

A body is a corpse, a non-functioning organism. No one is a body until they are dead. Niether does one "have" a body. A functioning human organism is a prerequisite to all of its abstractions—body, consciousness, ego, mind, soul, psyche, awareness—without it, there would be none of these concepts. To say one is not this organism, while at the same time being this organism, is one of the most contradictory ideas I've ever come across, and represents the gravest mistake of the idealist mindset.

And yes, there is one universe of which we are a part of. We are not the universe itself. This is evidenced by the fact that we aren't.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


If you punched me, I would feel it painfully. The nerves in the face would send signals to the brain, which I (consciousness) would become aware of as physical pain.

But I assume you are referring to my emotional reaction. It would probably anger me at first, and I would think to myself, "What the hell did I do to this asshole that made him want to punch me?". Then I would remind myself that whatever violent intentions you had toward me were, in actuality, intentions of your physical body toward my physical body. It was nothing I did, and it was nothing you did. It was just one body feeling angry towards another body. This would allow me to step back and place compassion in the situation, effectively diffusing whatever conflict initiated the violence.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by HarryTZ

 

Your purpose in having a body is to realize that you are not the body.

A body is a corpse, a non-functioning organism. No one is a body until they are dead. Niether does one "have" a body. A functioning human organism is a prerequisite to all of its abstractions—body, consciousness, ego, mind, soul, psyche, awareness—without it, there would be none of these concepts. To say one is not this organism, while at the same time being this organism, is one of the most contradictory ideas I've ever come across, and represents the gravest mistake of the idealist mindset.

Consciousness is not part of the body. The body is part of consciousness. You (consciousness) are not this organism, you have this organism.

And yes, there is one universe of which we are a part of. We are not the universe itself. This is evidenced by the fact that we aren't.

There is one universe where the physical body is a part of. The physical body is not the universe itself. You, however, are.

reply to post by HarryTZ


That's an hysterically unhealthy position to take in the matter. I wonder, when you have the choice to either let yourself get killed by a semi or step aside to let it pass unhindered, what will you choose? Your body is not you. When your body expires, you will go on. Like crushing a water bottle, the water is simply displaced.

What would you choose?

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

So I feel it is a little dishonest to demonize a virtual abstraction of oneself and chalk-up all our arrogance, greed, vanity and other egotisms, to a few bodily urges, when the entire drive, urge or instinct of the organism as one whole phenomena is the only thing operating in this fashion.

Paradoxically, the more someone detaches from ego, the more they take responsibility for all egoistic tendencies, thoughts, and actions. This is because the need to protect the ego diminishes proportionally to the degree of detachment.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


If someone is so intent on hurting me, I will simply give them the body to hurt. It is of no true value to me, however I will use it as long as I can.

reply to post by HarryTZ

Consciousness is not part of the body. The body is part of consciousness. You (consciousness) are not this organism, you have this organism.

I understand you can dogmatically express these assertions, but can you offer any rational explanation for your conclusion? Anyone can say this is that and that is this, but in order to convince those that don't see it as you see it, it helps to lead them to where you are with a path of rational arguments.

Explain to me how you are not a functioning organism, but the possessor of a functioning organism. I will stay open minded.

reply to post by mysticnoon

Paradoxically, the more someone detaches from ego, the more they take responsibility for all egoistic tendencies, thoughts, and actions. This is because the need to protect the ego diminishes proportionally to the degree of detachment.

Well put. I enjoy the way you articulate things mysticnoon.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


It would help if you shared with me your beliefs on the mechanisms of consciousness, and its significance in the universe. Just so I can have a base for this conversation.

reply to post by HarryTZ

It would help if you shared with me your beliefs on the mechanisms of consciousness, and its significance in the universe. Just so I can have a base for this conversation.

You don't need to know his/her beliefs in order to defend yours.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I am sharing my experience, not defending my beliefs. But you're right, I don't. It just makes it that much easier. If he chooses not to, I will have to build my own base and explain from there.

reply to post by HarryTZ


So if you are just consciousness, and your body is not really you, how do you know that you're not just a figment? How do you know that your body isn't the only real part of you? Maybe you're just an artificial program inserted into autonomous tissue that requires a driver. You'll do exactly what you were designed to do, think exactly the way you were made to think, and feel exactly the way you were meant to feel. No more, no less.

Maybe your body is the only legitimate part of you, and your mind is just a fabrication intended to give you the illusion of being alive and everyone else the illusion that you are one of them. Or maybe that's what we all are. See, ideas like yours open the doors to all sorts of questions that threaten to collapse the entire universe of meaning we have built around assumptions we've made about ourselves. Ideas like yours really drive home the concept that the meaning of our existence is precisely what we make it to be. We can force ourselves to explore the possibility that there's no point to anything at all...

Or we can give ourselves a reason to care, because caring makes existence so much more enjoyable.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


But I'm sure you can see how absolutely ridiculous that idea is.
This is not about my 'believing' that I am consciousness. This is about my knowing of it through experience.

reply to post by HarryTZ


Just because you are consciousness, does not demean the value of your physicality. That's hubris speaking.