All paths lead to Father?

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by rickymouse

 

God is not "our's" but the one true God is exclusive. Through His Son, He clearly defined the way to salvation, and the ONLY way to salvation. If that's selfish to you, then so be it, but Christ's blood is sufficient for all of us.

Salvation from what?

From being punished by him?

Sounds like christians are suffereing from Stockholm syndrome.

reply to post by Akragon


The "lake of eternal fire" Hell concept is archaic and pretty much, by various factors (Jewish understanding of Hell, hermeneutics, simple logic) is unbiblical. However, there is, by these same factors, a "second death."

But the fact remains that modern Christianity wants to present you with a one-sided image of God, that His glory is manifest in love only. No, God's glory is manifest in His love AND wrath.

What you're suggesting is that God, who gives you every chance in the world to come to Him through His Son, Jesus, is supposed to gve you a free pass in the end for living a worldly, pagan life and rejecting salvation? Now how does THAT make sense? Would you want a judge who only finds people innocent? Of course not, there's jo justice in that.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Aleister

 

Yeah. After all, why would corrupt, ultra-orthodox Jews want to stone somebody for saying something blasphemous? That makes absolutely no sense. As you can probably tell, I'm being sarcastic.

Because they could, to teach him and his guys a lesson. And the ones who were in it for the power and money agreed with them, but what they were really remembering (in my retelling of the Gospels) is that Jesus had grabbed the money tables with his bare hands and turned them over, ranting about his father's house. He wouldn't be good for business, because if the tables were back up next week he'd be there ranting and raving all over again.

reply to post by daskakik


Salvation for your sins. Salvation for eternal life rather than eternal death. You have a choice. God gives you enough revelation and chances to be saved, do you really think God would be unjust for punishing sinners?

reply to post by Aleister


No. Your theory would make sense if what happened at the Herodian Temple would be the turning point for the Pharisees. But Jesus did more than just throw tables over, He called the Pharisees out as hypocrites and desecrators. His claims and miracles were what threw up red flags, what happened at the Temple was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

Just what is sin and why does it merit punishment?

So he only punishes you when you deserve it?

Classic Stockholm syndrome.

reply to post by jhill76


If you are talking about the Judaic god, then I must politely but firmly disagree. A god is not necessary for a healthy and productive lifestyle. Buddhism and Taoism, for instance, do not recognize a god but assist you in finding peace in whatever way you choose.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Or when He said no one can come to the Father except through Him?

Correct. If Brother did not come here, man could not return home, as he can now. He did not state, worship me or go to hell, as many other believe.

"If you do not believe that I am He you shall die in your sins."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


I do not need "He" to live a perfectly healthy life. And if such a sentiment condemns me to eternal death, then I don't see the problem. I've never wanted to live forever anyway. Immortality is a curse, not a blessing, and anyone selling immortality in exchange for obeisance should be viewed with utmost suspicion.

Hell, if some politician were to offer you an infinitely deep bank account in return for your lifetime vote (terms and conditions may apply, see local retailer for details) I'm sure you wouldn't give him your vote just like that.

Originally posted by jhill76
I have seen a quote posted:
Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu...all paths lead to God.

It seems as this would be correct. As what all these have in common, is teaching self to be better.

If religion teaches said person to be better, would that be what Father would want ultimately? As long as you lived life in a good way, no matter how you did it, religion or not.

But, it seems religion wants to claim sole rights on God. (Jesus is the only way, Allah is the true God, etc.)

Would God really punish a person for being good throughout life?

I haven't read through this whole thread. Actually, I've only read your original post, but i wanted to reply simply to your post because I have wondered this exact same thing. I am a good person, but I do not particularly believe in God. I mean, God in the original sense. I believe that something probably had a hand in helping us evolve and helping us make the advances that we have such but I don't believe that it is a "One Almighty God". Would my belief of this, in and of itself, make me go to Hell even though I am a good person? This question is what has distanced me from fundamental religions.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Klassified

 

Another claim of circular logic, hm? Any right minded philosophy will tell you all logic is, by its nature, circular. All deductive logic reduces itself to tautology. Secondly, we don't need the Bible to tell us it's infallible. Provide definitive evidence to suggest there's fallibility in the Bible.

The burden of proof is on the one claiming infallibility. Nevertheless, if you were interested in such evidence, and would accept it, you would have already researched it for yourself.

The first evidence is, it was written by humans. Which automatically makes it fallible.
The second evidence is, the bible claims inspiration, not dictation. (Yes, I know the argument for "verbal and plenary" view. Bollocks! IMHO.)
The third evidence is, the bible is like Swiss cheese, it has so many holes in it. Biblical Contradictions and Bible Errors

Circular reasoning (also known as paradoxical thinking[citation needed] or circular logic), is a logical fallacy in which "the reasoner begins with what he or she is trying to end up with".[1] The individual components of a circular argument will sometimes be logically valid because if the premises are true, the conclusion must be true, and will not lack relevance. Circular logic cannot prove a conclusion because, if the conclusion is doubted, the premise which leads to it will also be doubted. Begging the question is a form of circular reasoning.

To say that all philosophy is circular, and reduces itself to tautological rhetoric isn't necessarily true, though when it is, it should be a clue as to why it's called philosophical, rather than factual.
Source

reply to post by Klassified

The burden of proof is on the one claiming infallibility. Nevertheless, if you were interested in such evidence, and would accept it, you would have already researched it for yourself.

Don't you get it? Their religion is so infallible that it doesn't require evidence demonstrating its infallibility. Evidence is for the logical critical-thinking types, may "God" forgive them.

Romans 3:10-12
10: As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one,
11: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
12:They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

We have all sinned against God...all of us. None of us are "worthy" of heaven....none of us are "good." We all deserve hell...including myself. That's why Jesus had to die on the cross. He became payment for our sins. That is what saves us from hell. A man is justified through faith. Faith in what? Faith that Jesus paid the price for your sins on the cross. That is why Jesus says that no man can come to the Father except through me.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I do indeed. Considering I used to be on the other side of the fence with them.

You must not really believe the hebrew scriptures. You just committed heresy and not for the first time. Hebrew bible says explicitly your good works are like a filthy rag before the Lord. Nothing you have is he willing to trade your soul for. So good luck trying to bargain with him, but if you really believed the scriptures, there would be no place for this thread.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Nothing you have is he willing to trade your soul for. So good luck trying to bargain with him, but if you really believed the scriptures, there would be no place for this thread.

So no matter how nicely or how often I ask him, he won't give me my soul? Which means technically, my soul is owned by the "bank". Dammit.

It's my soul, and I want it NOW!! Divine bureaucratic idiocy like that makes me wanna pull Ben Stiller and the gang together for a heist...and take all of our souls back so we can actually choose for ourselves what the hell we want done with them. Not a bad idea really.

All paths lead to death.
It does not matter which route is chosen.
Everyone will get there eventually.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by Akragon

 

It's a load of crap to you not because you don't believe it. You don't WANT to believe it, because that would mean that you're accountable for your actions. God is the one thing standing between you and autonomy, and unfortunately, you won't have an excuse when the time comes for you to answer for your life.

Nope... Its a load of crap because there are logical inconsistences with the idea of "hell" in the traditional sense...

I've got two threads on that concept, and im considering making a third...

IF God is love like it says in "the book"... where does hell fit into that ideal which is one of the base themes of Christianity?

If God is love, then his family must be protected. This is where hell fits into the picture. In Romans 1, his wrath is not against those who sin, but against those who suppress the truth. Paul told us this. Also, apart from Paul, we would not realize that Jesus was teaching the same topic as the OT. Man cannot please God with sacrifice. Mercy and Grace is necessary. Why? There can be no boasting with God. If man can enter heaven and say, "Look at what I did," there was no need for the Son of God to propitiate on our behalf. Living life should show you quick enough that you cannot do it on your own. Read the sermon on the mount. Have you sold everything and given to the poor? Then you are selfish and are marked with that mark, just like all of us. Was there ever a man that did sell everything and suffer every step? Yes. He did this for us and nothing we can do can match. This is why He is the Savior and we are not.

As a necessity, there must be a scapegoat provided for the Son, just as God provided one for Abraham. The Son remained safe. Satan was that scapegoat and those who willing suppress the truth with him. I don't think that is you, but I would not be willing to deny any part of the message in favor of my own understanding. It all stands as unified, including Paul's message that Grace and Mercy is the gospel. If not, we are all condemned.

reply to post by Theflyingweldsman

Originally posted by Theflyingweldsman

There will be NO shotgun weddings in Heaven...

He will never FORCE anyone to go there.

"I'm a gentleman Nick, I'll never force myself on you or anyone.

Nick, what would be more unjust and unfair, for me to steal you at the moment of your death and force you to live in my presence and in my will for all eternity.

Hell on the other hand is a place where you'll be completely free from all of my "though shalt nots"... FOREVER." The Encounter

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I do not need "He" to live a perfectly healthy life. And if such a sentiment condemns me to eternal death, then I don't see the problem. I've never wanted to live forever anyway. Immortality is a curse, not a blessing, and anyone selling immortality in exchange for obeisance should be viewed with utmost suspicion.

Hell, if some politician were to offer you an infinitely deep bank account in return for your lifetime vote (terms and conditions may apply, see local retailer for details) I'm sure you wouldn't give him your vote just like that.

edit on 18-5-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

You are going to live eternally no matter what. The spirit is energy, which cannot be destroyed.

You get the option to choose where that eternity will be.