Military Says No Presidential Authorization Needed To Quell “Civil Disturbances”

Originally posted by watchitburn
reply to post by jude11

 

No.

I have been in the Marine Corps. since before Sept. 11 2001.

Under no circumstances would I fire upon American civilians if ordered to do so by my chain of command. And I would be the one to have to tell the guys on the ground to open fire. I assure you it is not going to happen.

But there are ways to use overwhelming numbers to stop rioting without resorting to lethal force.
Despite what we see cops doing with their rubber bullets and tear gas, there are better ways. I've seen and done it.

As a human being, I would be compelled to do the right thing.

With that being said, 9 times out of 10 I agree with you. The military has no business policing America.
But it has been my experience, that when dealing with people, the exception tends to be the rule.

I also know how the military thinks, every possible situation gets planned for. So it makes sense to me that they would come up with something to keep the military legally protected as much as possible.


Don't get me wrong, I distrust the Govt. as much as anyone else. And yes, I do see the potential for something to go horribly wrong in a situation such as that.

But remember that the military is made up of Americans too. And we do try to do the right thing 99% of the time like anyone else.

This is a post I can appreciate.

We are of the same mind when we both know that an escalation is possible with Military intervention in civil matters.

The issue is not one soldier (you for example) but the collective. It has been seen time and time again that if one person stands against an oppressor, that oppressor having many guns and weapons at their disposal will always use them. It's a military mentality and a cop mentality as well being that if one member is harmed, right or wrong. the entire force will use whatever is at their disposal to retaliate against those that would harm a brother in arms not discounting lies, manipulation, fear tactics etc.. Right or wrong.

This is the problem with having these forces in the streets. Also when something does go wrong, the entire force stands united in a questioning. A citizen standing up and stating that the military is not telling the truth will never be heard and if they do, how long will it take to prove it?

Nope, keep them out of the streets and eventually the people will come to their senses. It may take awhile but people will always come to their senses and do what's right for their loved ones, friends, neighbors. We have that capacity.

Last but not least...It's against the Constitution and if one piece of it is dismissed then it's all up for destruction.

Peace

Originally posted by Ameilia
reply to post by jude11

 

Jude11, please keep posting. Some of us respect your threads and appreciate your words.

Thank you. I will.

And to you as well...

Peace

S&F without a doubt. I support any person willing to stand for self-determination.

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.
Buddha

Our duty is to encourage every one in his struggle to live up to his own highest idea, and strive at the same time to make the ideal as near and as possible to the Truth.
Swami Vivekananda

As I have said before, there aren't enough bullets to stop the hungry, there isn't a bunker sturdy enough to withstand the thirsty and in all religions the only path to peace is through selfless devotion towards the betterment of others.
I thank every person who stands for what they know in their heart to be true.

I would like to ask a simple question if I may?

What are we doing to stop this?

I hear these discussions daily now and yet I have not heard anyone really organising themselves to deal with it, we march against this, protest about that, yet nothing happens. Do you think things have to deteriorate to such a state that all those who are in denial start to see the garbage?

I used to think the government got things wrong because they are just a bit thick, but essentially worked for the people, I realised about 3 years ago they do everything for control.

Sigh what a tragic mess....

reply to post by Zanti Misfit


Scenario #2, the military top brass, after much debate determines that a clear and present danger exists to the USA, not in the form of a foreign power, but from 1600 Pennsylvania.

Knowing that in order to protect and defend the constitution & the citizens they determine to grant themselves a little "authority".............

jude, you're one of my favorite posters, just keep bringing stuff like this up...

Originally posted by jude11

www.globalresearch.ca...
May 17, 2013 A recent Department of Defense instruction alters the US code applying to the military’s involvement in domestic law enforcement by allowing US troops to quell “civil disturbances” domestically without any Presidential authorization, greasing the skids for a de facto military coup in America along with the wholesale abolition of Posse Comitatus.

No, it doesn't. A departmental regulation like a DODI cannot "alter" the USC, which is a restatement of Federal statutes. Only Congress, with the President's approval or a veto-proof majority, can rewrite the USC. As for quelling civil disturbances without Presidential authorization, Title 32 CFR is that authorization, and it defines the parameters in which that authorization is effective. And the author misunderstands the Posse Comitatus Act, which is about removing the Justice Department's former authority over the military, not removing the military's authorities for Federal law enforcement and quelling civil disturbances, which are written into Articles I and IV of the Constitution.

Your second source was debunked here, the Long Island Press blogger could not even get their own sources right.

The Washington Post story and the (non-policy) War College monograph are thrown together in the same paragraph as if they are related. They are not. The 2008 Post story is about plans for CBRNE response, and it's unclear whether those units ever reached full strength. (Probably not, since the military has been reducing in size for some time.) Would you really want the military to sit in garrison and do nothing if the US got hit by a CBRN attack? You'd be the first one accusing the government of withholding military aid to further some kind of plot. And the monograph is just the usual abstract strategic stuff that officers who hang around the War College like to write, with a few fanciful what-if scenarios to make it seem important. The section in question (starting on p. 31) is four paragraphs basically admitting, "We swear an oath to combat domestic enemies but we have no idea how to do it, and if we ever have to do it we're screwed." It doesn't really support the idea that the military is planning to do this, or even capable.

I'm not going to get into FEMA, I liked the first X-Files movie too, but Brownie's performance during Katrina put an end to the idea of FEMA's operational capabilities.

Originally posted by jude11
The US is currently under a potential coup. FACT. TPTB are re-writing the laws, Constitution, ...trashing liberties and freedoms. And how many people are actually listening/aware of what is happening to their Country? Not enough IMO.

I am one of those you might have predicted would be arriving to discredit you, from what we have debated in other threads before. But, I am going to agree with you on this one.

Lets get one thing straight, for a start... I have previously called you paranoid because you have not offered any evidence for some of the things that you have expressed belief in. I do not just accept a theory because Alex Jones is paranoid about it, I need some actual evidence or cause to believe in something. A lot of discussions on ATS are not based in evidence or facts, they are based in personal belief, distrust, suspicion and just plain fantasy.

However, having said all of that, I too believe that it is PLAUSIBLE that there was a coup in the USA, and that elements within the military industrial complex or the intelligence agencies took over the operation of the country.

There are only so many things that can be explained away before we have to start to wonder who is controlling who, and who is working in the best interests of the nation. Having seen the actions of various presidents over the last few years, I do believe that the leadership of the USA has been compromised by a conglomerate of banking, military and intelligence interests and that the elected do not run the show.

This would be so simple to do it's almost laughable! Someone in the CIA, funded by corporate and military interests, either sets up or finds out some information on each of the candidates, something that could put them in prison for a very long time, then simply uses that against them... this would not be hard to do in the slightest, and yet people seem to think it's not likely? Consider the kinds of power-hungry psychopaths we have in the banking establishment right now - and then imagine that same kind of greed, hunger for power and selfish ambition in the minds of people in the CIA.

I don't think that's a stretch of the imagination at all.

reply to post by jude11


The military? In our streets and towns?

Never!

Um, okay. Maybe Boston. And maybe after Hurricane Sandy. And maybe after Hurricane Katrina. And maybe the DHS needs some assistance sometimes. And maybe for roadblocks to catch someone using a cell phone while driving. And maybe for parades. Ad maybe for social functions like a kegger. And maybe if you're having some neighbors over for a BBQ. And maybe if the lines get too long at a movie theatre, especially for the new Star Trek movie. And maybe if your stupid neighbor decides to mow his lawn at 7:30 in the friggin' morning on a Saturday! And maybe to catch kids smoking cigarettes. And maybe to search for people who tear that little tag off the mattress. And maybe to patrol lines of people getting lottery tickets. Or bread. Or milk.

But other than that, NEVER!

SnF

Originally posted by VoidHawk
S&F because this needs attention so FLAG this thread people!!

Sadly I fear its already too late. In the uk I now see privatized security forces roaming our streets, and recently I came across a bunch of youths all wearing a uniform and carrying a note pad. They were searching the streets for anyone or anything to write about in their notepads, it made me think of the Hitler youth who reported anyone and anything to the nazi's.

What you say here is very concerning . As we all know Hitler youth . The signs are not good then. It seems they are gearing the world for yet another try at fascism / communism . Its been 60 odd years , so they want to go through the whole loop again.
This means that humans fail to evolve and have become violent base creatures agains. It is easy to get them to do really bad things to their fellow man as they are base creatures again . Maybe as soon as the basesness reaches a certain mass or critical mass as they say , it all spirals downwards again

Originally posted by jude11
snip~

First, it's NOT a "Story".

Secondly. Black and White is EXACTLY what we are facing. Remember Bush? "Either you're with us or against us."

Well, if he can lay down black or white, why do we have to stay in the gray? It's either right or wrong IMO.

Peace

We are of like mind and opinion. Chilled my blood to hear him speak those words that day, I knew things would never be the same...actually plane #2 was the moment I....we....knew. If life were a video game, the "getting ready to fight the boss level" music would have begun that instant.

All we have now is "hope for the best, but plan for the worst", and I do still have hope and here's why.

I often hear ordinary people, folks you wouldn't think would notice, from office-type professionals to blue collar labor types chatting while pumping gas, discussing things, sharing "conspiracy theory" type knowledge about all the shadiness we're witnessing from TPTB.

This is new and I think it's mostly due to the internet and the instant connection we now all have with each other. It was easier to keep everyone in the dark before.

Look at any news story that falls into the theme of us-vs-them, and read the comments at the bottom, paying special attention to the likes/dislikes flagging each comment. We are the majority in that realm, and likely in the real world as well.

People are waking up and no longer buying the line of poo they're feeding us.

We live in interesting times.

I think this particular issue is one of the most important ones we face today in America. A lot of people, I think, know about it subconsciously but are suppressing it because they don't think it could actually happen here.

This is what I see happening: first, the military and Homeland Security use excessive force when tracking down terrorists on U.S. soil. (This already happened in Boston).

Then drones come into the picture, and there are some drone strikes on U.S. soil.

Then, over time, things begin to get a bit murky (as if they hadn't already) as this kind of military activity expands, and maybe a few innocent people get caught up in it by mistake.

This, of course, might cause civil unrest over a period of time... maybe there is an event like Tienanmen Square.

Wikipedia: Tiananmen Square Protests of 1989



I would guess this could happen... over the course of 10-20 years...

Originally posted by Charlyboy
I would like to ask a simple question if I may?

What are we doing to stop this?

I hear these discussions daily now and yet I have not heard anyone really organising themselves to deal with it, we march against this, protest about that, yet nothing happens.

I know I'll be attacked for fatalism for saying this, but short of organising a revolution by force, there is nothing you can do. And if you try to organise a revolution by force, you will be stopped in your tracks, branded a terrorist organisation, and imprisoned indefinitely without charge or trial.

My eyes are open to the sh#t that's going on, and yes, it's deplorable. I live in the UK, and we pretty much copy everything the US does, so the same kind of stuff is happening here. But you know what? I don't care any more.

I spent years feeling responsible for everyone, trying to wake them up and get them to take responsibility themselves. The sad truth is, the vast majority of people don't want to. They're selfish, apathetic and lazy. I would love to have faith in the human race being able to grow up and save itself, but I don't anymore. We are a doomed species. The brightest and best are often ridiculed, ignored and marginalised. Pack mentality wins, and the pack is content to sit in front of the TV and let other people worry about the big stuff.

I'm not afraid to die. If the sh#t hits the fan in my lifetime and civil war breaks out in the streets, I will happily die fighting for what I believe in. But I'm done wasting my time and energy trying to enlighten people that aren't interested.

The human race deserves what is coming to it.

Originally posted by VoidHawk
S&F because this needs attention so FLAG this thread people!!

Sadly I fear its already too late. In the uk I now see privatized security forces roaming our streets, and recently I came across a bunch of youths all wearing a uniform and carrying a note pad. They were searching the streets for anyone or anything to write about in their notepads, it made me think of the Hitler youth who reported anyone and anything to the nazi's.

Hi VH,
Can you fill me in on where in the UK you've seen privatized security forces roaming the streets and uniformed youths taking notes in notepads please?
thanks
GTD

hi alllll !