The narrow path

reply to post by sacgamer25


Jesus never claimed to be Buddha's spirit, you are making an assumption based on nothing other than a preconceived notion. Buddha came before Jesus, that is a fact.

You list the verse where Jesus says he is the light of the world yet you either forget or ignore that he also called others the light of the world. Did you forget my mention of that or are you ignoring it?

If Jesus was Buddha's spirit, then why didn't Buddha die for our sins 500 years earlier? Your argument doesn't hold any water. Drop the conditioning and you may see the bigger picture, but until then you will remain in darkness by believing you are inferior to anyone.

I find it baffling that you agree Jesus' spirit was Buddha's yet still hold Jesus to a higher standard than Buddha, even though Buddha taught about love long before Jesus ever came into the picture. As I said earlier, Jesus could very well have learned something from Buddha.

Love does not require worship, I wish you could see that. I don't mean to come off as testy, but your thought process is very frustrating in my opinion. You're so close, yet you refuse to make that final leap. There is no such thing as hell, there is no need to fear anything.

reply to post by mysticnoon

There have been as many interpretions of this "narrow path" in this thread as there are posters.

Indeed. Even when a question is asked, there's no saying whether the question coming from one belief set has the same meaning as the hearer with another belief set. Makes it very difficult to join in.

How do you know what Jesus really meant? I mean, know as in factual, real knowledge, not simply personal conviction?

I don't think that's possible. Even if the time, distance, language translation, and cultural divides could be canceled out through mutually accepted scholarship, there is still the difference of understanding from one person and another.

Some assume that the Holy Spirit is the commonality between different people, but even if that is so, I think that personal spirit actually is the greater influence in individual lives.

This seems to be a very difficult topic.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I don't fear anything but God, and hell is real. Anything you believe in becomes real to you. However, there is no obstacle in my way as you are assuming.

In Geneses, God's first creation was unnatural light, spirit. We can know that light refers to love. So we can say that God's first creation was the spirit of love. The bible says Jesus was the firstborn over all creation, and that everything was made by him and for him. Jesus also calls himself the light of the world.

This means that Jesus Christ was the light or the love of this world. Love was the firstborn over all creation, and everything was made by love for love.

Yes he does call others lights, because anyone who teaches one to love is teaching one to listen to the spirit of love. Since he is the spirit of love it is his love that shines through you. This is what the bible says and the claim Christ made. This is the reason the resurrection was necessary, his claim was that unbelievable even in the presence of miracles man could not accept his testimony about himself.

There is a profound reason for understanding this. With what you believe no one can truly do right or wrong. Each action is an expression of self. Although you seek love as the most noble of emotions, it does not necessarily consume you. You continue to embrace experiences that are apart from love as necessary.

What I am saying is that we are to perfectly pursue love, by worshiping love itself. Believing in oneself is great but believing in love as a power greater than self is even more gratifying. My purpose is to serve love and love alone. I have come to understand that nothing against love is necessary. There is no truth in sin.

We say things like you cannot understand love without hate, but this is not true. What is closer to the truth is you can't understand hate without hate. Children prove me right everyday. Children fully understand how to love before they understand how to hate. Meaning love was taught by God, hate was taught by men.

You can fully understand love without understanding anything else. The reason for free will is true love is unconditional. For us to understand true love we have to be shown true unconditional love. We don't have to sin, this is an optional part of the lesson. Nothing of value is learned in sin.

To be forgiven for all that has happened and to know that somehow your use of your freewill against love has not condemned you to eternal hell is joy.

I am free to do anything I choose. But only love is worth doing, so love is what I attempt to do at all times. There is no wall between love and myself, but somehow you continue to see one where one does not exist.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I would like to propose a friendly challenge. Explain to an 8 year old what they should believe? Then I will explain my view.

reply to post by sacgamer25


But you are also the light of love, not just Jesus. That's the part you are not understanding. Yes, Jesus may have shown you the way, but that does not mean he is the be-all end-all on everything to do with love. He is only one path out of many. If you embrace love and live by love, then you are a light of love right along with Jesus, equal with him. You do not and cannot understand that for some reason, I don't understand why not. Your spirit is his spirit and his spirit is your spirit. We all share the same spirit, called the holy spirit. Every living thing in the universe has the spirit, not just "born again" Christians.

If you do not have any interest in being equal with Jesus then you have no interest in being perfect in love, because that's exactly what Jesus was, love perfected. You embracing love is you becoming equal with Jesus. You are the light of the world just as much as he was, as is everyone even if they do not realize it.

Can I ask you a question? What did Jesus mean by being the light of the world? Do you even know what light he is speaking of or what that light is?

The Christian version of hell where people suffer forever without any hope of release most definitely does not exist. The real hell is here on Earth, where love is hard to find and hate is everywhere, where wars are constantly fought and pollution is rampant, where people do not love one another.

This is the "lake of fire" that Jesus warned was coming. This is the "wrath" that John the Baptist said was coming. And it is all because we do not love one another as we should. If we all loved one another, this would be heaven on Earth, literally. Unfortunately, those in power have made the world sick with their greed and lies. I know you can understand that point of view.

Also, Jesus never resurrected, unless you're talking about reincarnation. That was added in later to make people as yourself feel as though you are inferior to Jesus. If you feel inferior then you will submit to their rules and regulations because they are the "mouthpiece of god".

The resurrection was not necessary in the least. Jesus' words spoke for themselves, a resurrection was not needed at all. If you think it was, then you don't put very much stock into his teachings. They have conditioned and brainwashed (no offense) you into believing that lie, the biggest one of all.

Do you think that Jesus' message of love would have been useless without the resurrection? If not, then why believe it when it was obviously added in after his death? You may want to study up on the Roman god Bacchus. He was supposedly the son of a god and mortal woman who died and resurrected long before Jesus was born. Romans are the ones who crucified Jesus then added in elements of Bacchus' story into Jesus' life.

Him not rising from the dead does not take any of his greatness away. Not in the slightest.

reply to post by sacgamer25


I say believe what they want and be open minded and they will grow into their own beliefs. I would rather they find the truth themselves rather than force it on them.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

If you do not have any interest in being equal with Jesus then you have no interest in being perfect in love, because that's exactly what Jesus was, love perfected.

I believe sacgamer25 is on a path of devotion and surrender, and that is as valid an approach as any other.

On a path of devotion, the beloved is everything, and the self is a very humble servant.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Jesus had anxiety and fear.

What was he doing in the garden the night he was arrested?

What did he say while hanging on the cross.

Jesus was perfect.
Humans can try to imitate Jesus
but they always fall short of the mark.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

How can Christians believe that Christianity is the "narrow path" even though it is the largest religion in the world? Jesus said that only a "few" people would find the narrow path, yet the religion he supposedly set up has become the largest path in the world and is steadily growing larger and larger by the day and has been for 2,000 years.

You are not reading the verse right.
This is why I point out the importance of reading the Greek. Look at,
interlinearbible.org...
and notice "find" is a participle, and if you don't know what that is, find out.
When it says "it", notice it is in the feminine accusative, then look at "life" how it is also in the feminine accusative, so what is found or not found is "life", and not "the gate".
Jesus says, "those who hear my words and does them", to see who finds life, not just the ones who hear about Jesus.
Let this be a warning, as is meant by his followup, of false prophets who will tell you that it only takes believing that you are saved and that what you do doesn't matter, which are the members of the "Free Grace" cult. Those false prophets will tell you there is no judgment for anyone who mouths the name, Jesus. Right after Jesus warns of the false prophets, he tells us that in fact there is a judgment and even for those who go about preaching Jesus and even performing miracles.

reply to post by jmdewey60


A judgment based on what, exactly? Is there a list of criteria? What if we were to live a decent life independent of the influence of Jesus? Do we have to live a good life and owe our allegiance to the Jesus Movement? Or can we simply live a good life for the sake of that good life?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

. . . and owe our allegiance to the Jesus Movement?

Creeds are tools of oppression.
Follow the principles laid out by Jesus, to love one another, then as Paul says, you will be cleansed of unrighteousness.

reply to post by jmdewey60


You can't find life before you find the gate though. He said the gate to life is narrow, and that many would not find it. You're trying to find a way around it but it's not working. He said the gate that leads to life is narrow, there's no getting around that.

Also, from the many discussions we've had, I have never seen you say reading the Greek version is important. Not once. You're apology is negating that he said the gate is narrow and that few would find it. The gate leads to life, so throwing out the gate is not an option.

reply to post by mysticnoon


I agree, and he is on the same path that Jesus was on. Jesus surrendered to love as well, he did not own it as he (sacgamer25) claims.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Creeds are tools of oppression.
Follow the principles laid out by Jesus, to love one another, then as Paul says, you will be cleansed of unrighteousness.

Then you are saying that we need not venerate the master, but the lessons he taught? Worship is not necessary for salvation? Do you know this for a fact?

Originally posted by slugger9787
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

Jesus had anxiety and fear.

What was he doing in the garden the night he was arrested?

What did he say while hanging on the cross.

Jesus was perfect.
Humans can try to imitate Jesus
but they always fall short of the mark.

Yes you are right he had the fear of the being killed on a cross, which caused him so much anxiety he asked the father "why have you forsaken me". He was scared of crucifixion. Even certain of his own resurrection, certain that his sacrifice was exactly what the father had created him for; he still feared the physical pain that was to come. And he proved that he was not God, but rather more like us through his fear. This proves that even Christ did not completely understand, the one that was with God from the begging did not completely understand why he had to be crucified.

But in the ultimate testament to the man who believed in "turn the other cheek", he allowed himself to be subject to the will of the father on the cross. He had free will; he could have chosen a different path. He allowed his brothers to crucify him in order to prove that he believed in love.

I'm not sure that any of us would be free from fear if we were knowingly about to face what Christ was about to face. He was flesh so he was human, but he was spirit, the Holy Spirit. We can become like Christ, by listening to the spirit of love that lives in us.

Christ became sin in sinful man. Christ empathy is what allowed him to understand us without partaking in our sin. He overcame sin each time it was presented to him; in this way he has become a righteous high priest. His priesthood comes from within, the spirit of love has experienced everything you have but yet overcome. Now the spirit of love can dwell with you and teach you what he learned as a man, so that you too may also overcome all sin. Thus becoming like him.

My brother Paul agreed with me completely but most people think he was creating a new religion, and many followers of Christ adamantly disagree with Paul. Paul is worshiping Jesus Christ in his writing. He has made it clear that the only path to heaven is through Christ.

Paul did not establish Paulianity. He understood that Jesus was the Holy Spirit. And that the only way to understand one's own salvation is to pursue the spirit of love at all times. Paul did not believe that becoming the spirit of love was in his reach nor do I. But he did believe in the Joy that comes with the pursuit. Paul was not worshiping Jesus Christ the idol. Paul was rather worshiping the spirit of love, who came to earth in the form of the man Christ Jesus. Jesus/The spirit of love, is the savior of the world.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ (the spirit of love)who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the (Love)Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus (the spirit of love) for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Mathew 10:24 24 “The student is not above the teacher, nor a servant above his master. 25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub, how much more the members of his household!

I am not saying that we cannot do the things Christ did. I am merely saying that he was created for a different purpose. He used his free will only to pursue love and in doing so paved the way for us to become like him. If we do the things he says we will become like him. We need the words of Christ, the words of love, to understand love more clearly. He was love, thus he had nothing to learn about love, he was sent as the teacher. We are here as the student. If I become the teacher it is not I who teaches but the spirit of love that lives in me that has taught the lesson. Apart from Christ I have no understanding.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


This is not what the bible says. Being born again has nothing to do with reincarnation. Jesus came to save the sinner; the sinner is the one who has become separate in mind from God. It is through the resurrection that the sinner may come to repentance.

The flaw you have is failure to fully understand the sinful mind. Maybe the sinful path is not a path that you needed to fully understand. But for me I had to learn everything the hard way. For me the command to love was impossible. Not because I did not have the desire to love, but simply I did not understand how to love. And even given the understanding the pursuit at times was overwhelming.

There are two spirits of love. The father who is in all. The son who is in all that call on him as their savior. I know the Spirit of Christ is in me. I know that it is Christ that often speaks through me. This is not debatable. I have taught my children lessons from him literally a year before I understood myself.

If you teach your 5 year old child a lesson about love, then a year latter you child has to explain the lesson to you, you can be certain that you were not the teacher. I am not the teacher, I am not the Christ. I am a man who has been given the ability to understand the words in the bible. There is only one who is worthy of being the teacher, and that is Christ. I will allow the spirit of love to become my life so that the teacher may be heard by all.

reply to post by mysticnoon


Thank you, because this is the path of sinful man. You simply said it clearly. Thank you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

He said the gate to life is narrow, and that many would not find it. You're trying to find a way around it but it's not working. He said the gate that leads to life is narrow, there's no getting around that.

It seems clearer after re-reading the passage in it's context, that the narrow gate and narrow path refer back to the verse right before it:
7:12 "Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets". - WEB

Being on that path would be a life long process with a guiding principle. Who is trying to get around that? Maybe the people who have seminars like "Five minutes that will give you life" or "10 words that bring you instant eternal life".

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

I say believe what they want and be open minded and they will grow into their own beliefs. I would rather they find the truth themselves rather than force it on them.

Let me first make one statement about reincarnation. Only the one who loves as you do can find comfort in reincarnation. To you reincarnation has become an excuse for your brothers who have not yet reached your level of understanding.

In Christ there is no excuse. Everyone is expected to understand and pursue love. All that don't face judgment. Although I do not make claims as to what is after this life, I do agree with you that the Heaven/Hell spoken of in the bible is tied more to our current emotional state of mind than it is any afterlife.

To me the period of judgment is today, and since every new day is today, we are judged every today. When we pursue love we receive love, when we pursue what is against love, we receive what is against love.

I asked if you would explain your view to a child and you have. Thank you, now I will leave it up to each of you to decide for yourselves what you want to believe.

I say believe what they want and be open minded and they will grow into their own beliefs. I would rather they find the truth themselves rather than force it on them.

What you have said is good. My mother did not force anything on me. The problem is the world itself forced all its negative values on me. The desire for religion, hate, greed, war, over sexuality, these things became the lessons for my life. After 40 years I have finally come to the conclusion that we are truly all God's children loved unconditionally.

So if you teach them to grow, it should be also assumed that you assume that they will make and learn from their own mistakes, and be lead down their own path.

And this is true but there is a better a path.

My daughter was taught at age 5 that God/Jesus is the love inside her. I explained to her that when she listens to the love/God inside her she will feel love. I told her when she doesn't listen to God/her love, that she will become separate from love.

When the child who is taught to grow according to one's own nature encounters a situation there is no right or wrong choice only growth.

When my child who was taught that God is love and love is a reward. When she encounters a situation the right choice is always the choice that returns love. She has believed that God is love, and that through pursuit of love, she receives love as a reward from her father above. My daughter quite literally pursues love all the time.

When she acts against love, she knows she has acted against God and thus typically will repent and ask forgiveness almost immediately after making the mistake. She returns to God's favor immediately because she sought forgiveness. She lives with no lasting emotional distress, because she has not only sought forgiveness but believed that since God is love that she has received it.

This morning, my second grade daughter, wrote down a complex song that she wanted to share with a girl at school. The meaning of the song is when we don't be friends sadness comes to both of us. But when we choose friendship we both love each other. This girl has been a friend of hers but they had a dispute.

My daughter is seeking love because she knows that God is love, and that she will be rewarded by him even if her friend doesn't understand. She came up with this idea on her own. She is more an influence to me than I could ever be to her.

Your child will have to learn the lesson, my child will teach the lesson. This is profoundly different, at the age of 8 I believe my child has found heaven inside herself.

reply to post by sacgamer25

My brother Paul

Thank you. Sympathy and empathy for Paul is becoming rarer and rarer these days.

I find it hard to defend Paul, because I disagree with him on some points, and I think he had some flawed argument tactics. That doesn't mean I must despise him or hate him.

I think that the wide path that the unkind powers of the world are laying out is that we must hate those we disagree with. On a forum like this we can ask people to clarify what they mean. We can't do that with Paul.