Is your definition of life biased? Are you a hypocrite?

I would like to ask you a simple question - or questions - but in order to make my point you need to be truthful to yourself, and you'll need to do so in sequence.

In December 2012, a fireball was seen over the skies of Polonnaruwa, Sri Lanka. Over the following few days, fragments of the fireball were collected and sent to Sri Lanka’s Medical Research Institute, where initial microscopic analysis revealed siliceous microalgae known as diatoms.
...
the scientific community was sceptical of the results — and so some fragments were sent to Cardiff University in Wales for further analysis. The researchers at Cardiff are now reporting that they’re sure that these fragments come from an extraterrestrial meteorite — and that there are definitely “fossilized biological structures” within them. Panspermia, it seems, is a go.
Source

1. Did you exclaim: "Wow! They found extraterrestrial life!"?

2. What do you tell your friends? Do you quote the article title to sum up? Astrobiologists discover fossils in meteorite fragments, confirming extraterrestrial life!

Let's say the Mars Rover Curiosity sent back this image of a biological organism - single celled:

3. What would your reaction be?

4. Would it satisfy your need to prove that extraterrestrial life exists?

5. Would you believe that we have won the "battle" to prove the existence of aliens?

6. How would you feel if the Mars Rover took a few photographs of the single celled organism, and then killed it - zapped it with a laser? Would you be upset?

If you have been paying close attention, you would have noticed that I just lied and that I set a trap to test your moral values. The image above is obviously not a single celled organism. It is a human embryo at 3 weeks.
Now, keeping in the back of your mind what you consider "extraterrestrial life"...

7. How do you feel about abortion?

8 At what stage of a baby's development do you believe "life" begins (Using the list below)?

- fertilization, the fusing of the gametes to form a zygote

- implantation, the start of pregnancy, occurring about a week after fertilization

- segmentation, after twinning is no longer possible.

- when the heart begins to beat

- neuromaturation, when the central nervous system of fetus is neurobiologically "mature"
* "brain birth" concepts (compare with brain death):
at the first appearance of brain waves in lower brain (brain stem) - 6-8 weeks of gestation (paralleling ′′whole brain death′′)
at the first appearance of brain waves in higher brain (cerebral cortex) - 22-24 weeks of gestation (paralleling ′′higher brain death′′)

- the time of fetal movement, or "quickening"

- when the fetus is first capable of feeling pain

- when it can be established that the fetus is capable of cognition, or neonatal perception

- fetal viability

- birth

Source

You see my point is we are often hypocritical. We tackle the great abortion debate with great self assurance. We have our ideas about what (we think) human life is. We make moral stands fighting for the woman's right to go for an abortion.

And I'm not talking about the medical issues (for example if the mother's life is in danger) or social issues (such as rape victims) or even religious issues. I'm talking about women and their "mistakes". A one-night stand without protection. Teenage pregnancy. In many countries it's just fine for a woman (or girl) to walk up to a doctor and ask for an abortion; and they'll do it only if it's before the x trimester... Is that OK?

If you consider a single celled organism "life" but you do not consider a human embryo in its first trimester "life", then you may just be a hypocrite...

Just something to ponder.

edit on 14-5-2013 by Gemwolf because: Fixed tags

I've been talking to my son about this.

Sperm and ovum are in themselves only half of what it takes to create life.

Once the RNA from both come together in the dance of life and intertwine,

they become DNA, which is a full person-in-a-cell.

All it has to do is divide, multiply and grow,

but the person is created in that instant.

Some make it, some don't, but we all start at the start and use what we have.

We are, after all only biological fractal holographic expressions of our DNA.

Er... I mean Life starts at Conception.

Tfw.

reply to post by Gemwolf

If you consider a single celled organism "life" but you do not consider a human embryo in its first trimester "life", then you may just be a hypocrite...

We don't do straight lines when we draw them in the sand. In fact, one good descriptive would be a graph that looks like an EKG printout, lol.

Now, I don't think we do this truly realizing the effect because of our basic line of conceptual sight. It is when we step back and see how jagged that line is... we either question ourselves or we fall back on the bliss of selective ignorance.

This isn't to take sides on the subject of panspermia or abortion... but just in how we conduct ourselves when standing behind that line that represents our chosen beliefs... and what that line looks like from a distance.

Good OP.

Personally, I think most life on earth was created somewhere else, the dna structure coming from worlds throughout the universe that were destroyed throughout the eons. Sure some of this life changed and maybe some actually formed here, guided by the fragments of the extraterrestrial remnants of life. Conditions for this to reassemble had to be right also, this planet is rare, but I know we are not alone in this universe. I do not agree with mankinds definition of life either, I think it needs expanding.

Come to think of it, I have a lot of disagreements with the sciences neglect of looking at the whole picture when evaluating things.

reply to post by Gemwolf



My point of view, i believe the life begins when the Spinal Column is attached to the Brain, which makes the brain the controller of the body... at 5-6 weeks period.

After that, to me its a human being, but that's is my opinion.

_____

Single celled organism on a different plant would confirm me of Extraterrestrial life but i would still be skeptical of aliens in UFO visiting earth, and i rather they not kill any organism they find.

reply to post by Gemwolf


So this is not about aliens ?

If you consider a single celled organism "life" but you do not consider a human embryo in its first trimester "life", then you may just be a hypocrite...

I don't consider it a "life"...but a good starting point for seeking further.

I may consider embryo a good starting point for life in any trimester...

Anyway...I feel the persons, humans are what we become...bodies are just shells. If you sever any man's parts...he can survive...he can still be him...without an arm, a leg, a kidney, liver, even heart (all can be transplanted, or substituted with artificial organs...which to me means...it's not what defines us as beings.)

What we can't replace...is human conciousness...that thing that delves in our heads...in our brains...take that away...and you have an empty body shell...but no one is home. It is what makes us what we are...not our bodies, or our embryos. It is this complex neuron network that is an interface. It even defines our attitude towards embryos. Embryos...that are...in the first trimester especially...empty shells.

Hence...I'm all pro choice here. Sanctity of life has somewhat different meaning to me...

My first thought was, "I wouldnt care, theres probably more of them". However, zapping something in the name of science and zapping something in the name of laziness or incompetence are two completely different issues and this analogy, imo, doesnt make a strong point.

I consider the sperm itself to be life and the egg to be life. When they join, I consider that to be life. But I am pro choice. If a person wants to kill their unborn child, thats their business. I personally wouldn't, but if I wanted to, I would want to be free to make that decision.

reply to post by Gemwolf

To answer your first question, I exclaimed 'Oh gawd, Chandra Wicks is doing his nut again.' I don't suppose I mentioned it to my friends and if I did it was only to explain to the overly credulous why this eminent but ancient boffin is not a trustworthy source when it comes to claims regarding extraterrestrial life. I didn't believe a word of his nonsense and I certainly didn't think it proved that alien life exists – although it probably does, out there somewhere.

If Curiosity had discovered a single-celled organism on Mars and subsequently killed it, I wouldn't have been very happy (what if it was the last Martian? ) but I would have understood the necessity – in the course of gaining knowledge, one must often 'murder to dissect', as Wordsworth put it.

I certainly wouldn't relate my reaction to the killing of a Martian microbe to my views on abortion in any shape of form. For the record, I find abortion ugly and repugnant, and I tend to oppose it because of the psychic toll it levies on the woman who has one. All the same, I fully acknowledge its occasional necessity. I once tried to dissuade a female friend from having an abortion, but I have also helped another friend find a reliable abortionist (it's illegal in my benighted South Asian country). So my view of abortion depends on the circumstances (I should add that the fetus wasn't my offspring in either of the foregoing cases).

I don't like killing animals, but if I have killed plenty of mosquitoes and cockroaches, as well as a few rats, fish, birds, snakes, etc. (I was once a boy with an air rifle). I've also put a few suffering pets down in my time. I eat meat. And I am aware that every breath I take, every move I make, etc., destroys any number of tiny lives. I don't lose any sleep over this, and I wouldn't lose any over an aborted embryo, either.

Did you know that most embryos are naturally aborted anyway? God kills more babies-to-be than Man ever could.

Sperm is not a lifeform? Who is the hypocrite now? It doesn't matter what side of the fence you sit, throwing your definition of what constitutes life over someone else isn't anymore right than the person next to you..... It's a lot more complex than that, I don't know the answers but I'm not going to pretend to, otherwise I might just be a hypocrite myself....

reply to post by Gemwolf


Before I give my opinion on Abortion. SnF~ Very though provoking, indeed! And you would be correct, though some will try and debate "Conciousness" in regards to "ET" life, you are spot on. I think most individuals are looking past single celled orginisms honestly, and want to see a "Sci-Fi" fully grown Alien. So to that extent we have not verified "Extra Terrestrials". In the scientific community they would have verified "ET's" As a single celled orginism whizz'n through space, who hitched a ride on a meteor is enough I would pressume for the Universe to hold "Life", Multi-Celled orginism's on other "Earth Like" Planets. So for me "ET's" have been verified just not how the rest of the world wants them.

In regards to Abortion. The Laser and the Single Celled orginism. It's just wrong. How could you zap anything? We don't know the full status or states of conciousness yet we play god by ending something we as a human race and even scientific communities do not fully understand. By understand, we know how everything comes together, the stages but the "Why's" are something that even Scientist struggle to fully answer with no exceptions and no loop holes.

Recently there was a thread on when conciousness takes over in a baby, actually I think there was a article on it as well. But my feelings are far from what I read, I did no participate because it was to emotionally attached because I just became a "New Father" 10 months ago. Even for a man, I feel life starts upon conception. So who is anyone to destroy that. But that's my opinion without getting heated or debating.

I guess some might look at what I just stated as hogwash or ass-backwards but hey! It's just how I feel.

Thanks for this thread~ I look forward to seeing where it goes

reply to post by jheated5


Sperm on its own is no more a lifeform than a bacteria is.

Alone, a sperm can not become anything.

Originally posted by Theflyingweldsman
reply to post by jheated5

 

Sperm on its own is no more a lifeform than a bacteria is.

Alone, a sperm can not become anything.

I cannot become anything else than what I am either, except dead..... Am I not a lifeform?

When the heart starts beating. But humans are sentient. Single cell organisms, extraterrestrial or not, aren't.

reply to post by jheated5


Sperm and a Bacteria is totally different. A sperm is comparable to a Virus, just have genetic code, it does not "survive", does not eat or multiply.

Bacteria is an organism. It Eats, Poops, Multiply and Survives.

Sperm is a haploid(a half), until it merges without a Oocyte, its nothing.

I always laugh when people say "when you masturbate, you kill babies..."

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by jheated5

 

Sperm and a Bacteria is totally different. A sperm is comparable to a Virus, just have genetic code, it does not "survive", does not eat or multiply.

Bacteria is an organism. It Eats, Poops, Multiply and Survives.

Sperm is a haploid(a half), until it merges without a Oocyte, its nothing.

I always laugh when people say "when you masturbate, you kill babies..."

I never compared Sperm to Bacteria, someone else did that and it makes no sense.... I also never called a Sperm a baby or anything other than what it was.... A Sperm does live, survive and die....

All life is sacred or no life is sacred.

choose..........

If all life is sacred then quit killing ants, mice, and cows.....or YOU ARE a hypocrite

If all life isn't sacred then get off your high horse and quit acting like human life is more important
than any OTHER life.....it isn't. Humans are the most DANGEROUS species of life his planet HAS EVER
seen.

We humans have the immediate capacity to kill nearly every animal on the face of the earth, including
a massive amount of marine life.

What can an ant do....clean a carcass or bite a leg.

pffft

reply to post by jheated5

Am I not a lifeform?

Yes. You are a lifeform.



Tfw.

One could probably argue human life vs something that is "alive" are two different things. I would say that a living organism, be it single celled or a simple structure, could be considered finding alien life. A plant cell is alive. However for humans the measurement is different. A heartbeat is universally accepted in determining if a person is a live or not. Once a fetus has a heartbeat I believe it is technically a living human being that should have full rights. that is usually around week 4 or 5. I think abortion is terrible and heinous (even before the heartbeat). Abortion is not the problem - unprotected sex IS the problem. Things like STD's and unwanted pregnancies aren't an issue if abstinence until marriage is practiced.

Now I'm just tossing this out there in regards to the sperm / life debate occuring.... Watch closely~



Now, no this is not fact. But~ It's a big but here.... A sperm's life is short unless it find the egg and the egg only fits 1 sperm. But isn't that life? Just not how we humans define "Life". Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... It's a duck, no?