The Fine Line Between Madness and Genius

reply to post by qualm91


Good for you, glad I've read your post as I was offered medication once as well but declined and chose to solve my problems myself.

It's always a good thing to know more even if it was just moot information, it means something is growing and becoming stronger. Otherwise you would begin to know less or suffer from memory losses, just as fear weakens. The trick is as with anything not to be taken over by negativity by letting it go once all fears have been seen and accounted for. It's not a bad thing to inventarize all (social/physical) dangers in a setting so to be on guard in the event it might happen but after it has been imagined it must be let go of.

I liked this thread...

I feared things I read in this thread...

I made both peace and war with a few things in this thread...

I dunno...I guess the mind is a weird thing.

Broken or not, you may as well accept the one you got.

What other choice do you have?

Free hugs for all.

MM

reply to post by Dragonfly79


Yes, I have embraced my so called "insanity" and, honestly, it has made me a better person. I became quite fascinated with "mental disorders" through discovering that I had one of my own and have done a lot of research on many of them over the years. In doing so it has made me better at reading people, at controlling myself, and at seeing the big picture. It has also helped me in greatly better my writing career, my artistic career, and my longing to become a physicist. Being the "crazy" ones aren't such a bad thing. I would dread being normal.

reply to post by qualm91


Expansion of knowledge.

A seed, contemplating all it is not, so it can die in its form and give birth to the flower that it was always meant to be.

Madness, is only a range within a much larger field.

Expansive consciousness.

The genius, moves through the fields, and expands outwards.

The wise man knows of the limitless expansion, and learns where to settle, where to find stillness.

One view is limited, do you know which one?

reply to post by qualm91


Pay attention to what you eat and how you feel up to a day after that. It is often what you eat for lunch that effects you after supper. Look at both good moods and bad moods to evaluate this. A lot of times things can be regulated by managing consumption and timing of foods and beverages. A friend of mine was on pills for bipolar for twenty years, it almost killed him so he tapered off and quit. Someone told him he was having signs of diabetes so he had it checked, he now takes a diabetes pill as his only medicine and all his bipolar symptoms disappeared. His new doctor figures that he may never have really been bipolar. He may Just have had a sugar regulation problem that screwed up his mind.

reply to post by rickymouse


This may be the case in some situations, but I assure you that it is not the case in mine. I am towards the extreme end of bipolar disorder. It is honestly quite amazing that I have even come to handle it without medication, and sometimes I can't handle it, though these moments are rare these days. Thank you for your suggestions, though. They are appreciated.

Originally posted by qualm91
reply to post by Dragonfly79

 

Yes, I have embraced my so called "insanity" and, honestly, it has made me a better person. I became quite fascinated with "mental disorders" through discovering that I had one of my own and have done a lot of research on many of them over the years. In doing so it has made me better at reading people, at controlling myself, and at seeing the big picture. It has also helped me in greatly better my writing career, my artistic career, and my longing to become a physicist. Being the "crazy" ones aren't such a bad thing. I would dread being normal.

Embrace it, but don't define it as your "insanity". It is your "normal", it is other people's "insanity".

Here is a phrase I like to think of when I'm feeling a little "insane".

Most people will agree and even outright claim that the world is a crazy/insane place, so why would one want to be "normal" in a "crazy" world?

reply to post by LiberalAlert


Very wonderful saying! I only define it as "insanity" from a societal view. In society's eyes, I have been branded crazy. In my eyes, I am simply a normal human being. Every human being has neurological flaws, but most bury them because they think they are crazy, they think that they are something that they should be ashamed of. I don't view them as such. I would dub murderers and rapists as definably insane. I would define people like me as simply "abnormal" or "eccentric". I embrace this, because I truly believe that I have been gifted to see things as they actually are. Which is not always pleasant, but it's better to know the truth than to hide it in pleasantries.

reply to post by qualm91


Did your mother have a flu shot while she was pregnant for you or did she have the flu? New study out, I'm looking to see if it has any bearing on reality. www.sciencedaily.com...

Originally posted by qualm91
It has also helped me in greatly better my writing career, my artistic career, and my longing to become a physicist. Being the "crazy" ones aren't such a bad thing. I would dread being normal.

May I ask what you write? What your art is like? And what your interests in physics are?

reply to post by ImaFungi


I write poetry and novels. I just got a poem published recently which inspired me to actually pursue trying to get one of my books published, too. My poetry is generally about nature, or depression, or love. Things that inspire me. And my books are generally in the science fiction category. The one I am working on now has to do with the LHC destroying the world. My art is simply drawing, generally with ink. I draw whatever the mood strikes me to draw, I have no real category for my art. I am most interested in quantum mechanics, astrophysics, and particle physics.

reply to post by qualm91
Genius is typically assumed to be someone who understands matters that others do not - and who can also communicate and even prove and/or demonstrate them. The development of this type of genius often requires an incredible focus of attention to certain points-of-view or disciplines. This specific emphasis can be over the course of lifetimes, but regardless of how long it takes to develop, it may cause other areas of life to suffer from the lack of attention or development. Thus the archetype of the mad genius or the absent-minded professor or the anti-social intellectual, etc.

But is such genius really true intelligence? Wouldn't real intelligence take one's whole circumstance into account, not just a mind cut off from body, as is typically the case? Wouldn't real genius recognize the truth of our appearance and not simply one aspect of it? I know genius is typically defined in this specifically focused manner, but perhaps that definition is not really appropriate.

I am not saying that genius should not be appreciated in society - but everyone should be encouraged from an early age to first develop a balance with all aspects of the body-mind, rather than simply exploiting one that is potentially great and even becoming extremely obsessed with, especially at an early age.

A balanced development involves the whole body-mind relative to all physical, emotional, mental, and even spiritual functions. On this balanced foundation, various instances of what may have become "mad genius", could be avoided, and simply be truly intelligent genius.

reply to post by qualm91


I think the problem is that the data is cherry picked.

If you go to any Mensa meeting, you will meet all sorts of geniuses (and these are only the geniuses who actually choose to join Mensa) who aren't "crazy." Because "genius" relates to the ability to see patterns (put together two things in an unusual and interesting manner), you will see high creativity among those who are called geniuses.

But nutty? No. My husband's family and my family both have a high number of geniuses in each family (my husband and I both qualify.) Of the twenty or so people (out of several hundred... we're VERY friendly people) who qualify as geniuses, only four were diagnosed with depression or had psychological problems.

We do have high levels of creativity. But nobody's bipolar or schizophrenic.

I think you have hit on a great thread topic, OP. It seems more and more these days are diagnosed with bi polar disorder. And I'm not a big believer in genetic triggers, etc. To really judge genetics markers accurately, it would seem to me we would need a sampling for every human being ever. And I find some of the early conclusions regarding genetic theory to be outright dangerous in the conclusions that can be drawn, when the path that could lead us down humanity wise is a slipper slope.

Can't remember the quote about it, or who said it, for that matter, but it was something along the lines of is it sane or normal to be well adjusted in an insane world? What even passes for normal now? Psychiatry, pharmacology is a very large business. It's pretty obvious that we live in a place where presenting problems is considered a way of keeping people both employed and distracted, and yes, even controlled.

Take Nash, for instance. There actuallly is substantial political pressure applied, from a historical perspective, to people with great minds and talent, and a particular ability of the acuity of vision that not everyone has, people who are not as easily distracted, say, by social acceptance, for one thing. Competition is, at least IMHO, is reinforced in a very unhealthy, controlling way , especiially in our capatalistic society, and it begins at a very early age and a way of socializing here. This seemed to be something that was a trigger for Nash, in particular.
Just on ATS, you can find many threads of actual statistics of untimely and unusual deaths of scientists in all fields. In short, I believe it's rather obvious that people who might see alll too well certaiin hidden truths can easily be perceived as a threat.

That's one answer, possibly, in some cases. But also, with a mind that works a certain way, focuses more on what's underneath what looks pretty normal on a day to day basis, and recognizes that we are fed information that makes little sense, the priorities for such a person are much different. If you are concentrating on a problem of getting applied physics and quantum physics to "fit," say just as an example, how many people are you going to encounter socially whom you would be interested in talking to, and vice versa.....

And also, there is a price to knowing such things, that others just are willing to accept, keep working, getting more credit cards and more toys with bells and whistles, isn't there?

Though I know people who have been diagnosed bi-polar, as well as schizophrenic, and even clinically depressed, perhaps sometimes there are gifts of knowledge that come with this, and creativity. Just the "knowing" that things are not as they seem, after all, can be crazy making for many, all by itself.

I agree a lot with what JaceyGirl said: Don't accept anyone else's labels on you, even if you have had "meltdowns" at times, that seem to indicate the "label" fits. There could be many reasons. Sometimes being introspective, trying to know your triggers, separate your emotions and reactions and be able to look at them more logically may be helpful. Sometimes, there can be relationships in a person's life which reinforce this that can be a manipulative dynamic of control, where it becomes who is more right in their responses, and the evidence used is some societally reinforced idea of what succeess should look like.

If you have those gifts with some of this other in the mix, maybe the best is in those moments of distress, try your hardest to put your energy into creating something expressive that may either "get that out of you," in a therapeutic way, or even reach someone else and provide them comfort.

I'm no one really to be providing advice to you, but you piqued my interest as it involved my own artistic process as I've gotten older. My art actually began to present itself in the middle of my journaling, of course, with words....and then I ran out of the words, and began to draw in the middle of what I was writing.....
Thanks for making me think.....
Tetra50

Sorry, guys! I haven't been on for a couple days. Wonderful feedback, thank you all for your input.

reply to post by bb23108


That is typically what designates madness, I must say. Someone not being as socially inclined as others. Maybe they act differently in front of other people or simply don't want to be around other people. I don't think that social awkwardness should be considered madness but in a lot of cases it is. What I'm talking about is true "madness". A true psychological disorder that cannot be helped. And I do agree with you that as children we should be taught this balance that you say. But, speaking from personal experience, this balance is sometimes very hard to find. With years of practice it can certainly be achieved, though.

reply to post by Byrd


I am by no means implying that all geniuses are mad or that all mad people are geniuses. I did the "cherry-picking" purposely, yes. But there is no denying that many famous geniuses were quite mentally "different" than most people in society in general. And not just in the way that they were incredibly smart. There is an overwhelming number of people that had psychological disorders that were, in fact, geniuses, and I am simply wondering if there could be a connection with these people. For example, would these certain people have been as intelligent if they had not had their disorders? I think sometimes the disorders enable the intelligence.

reply to post by tetra50


I very much enjoyed your input for I agree almost completely with everything you said, haha. And it was very interesting to me that you threw in that your art presented itself when you ran out of words. This is exactly why I began drawing in the first place. I am absolutely in love with words, and I am very good with them. But every now and then a feeling just comes over you that you cannot put down because words simply fall short. This is why I began to draw. And the fact that you brought up that disorders can be great gifts in disguise and that people can channel said disorders into one's own work, or reaching out to help others. That is exactly what I have done and that is exactly what I believe these said geniuses were doing. I believe that "madness" is a very wonderful thing, although a very difficult and exhausting thing to cope with. When one learns to channel their madness, that is when geniuses are born from it.

---------------------------------------------

A lot of people who have replied to this thread have not come straight out and said, but have implied, that mental disorders are somewhat made up, for financial gain by psychiatrists and such people that are involved in fields pertaining to psychiatry. I have to admit, in a lot of cases, this is true. Some psychiatrists love to hand out diagnoses willy-nilly. "Oh, you can't pay attention, you have ADD.", "Oh, you get sad sometimes, you're manic depressive.", and so forth. But, it is not like this in all cases, that's why I picked the specific examples that I did. These people had honest to god psychological problems. And when you have a mental disorder, you certainly know that you have it, you don't have to go to a psychiatrist to be told that there is something wrong. Like in my case, I knew there was something very wrong, I just didn't know what it was. And when my psych told me what she thought it was, that's when I began researching for myself and realized that she was certainly right. I am simply fascinated by the connection in the cases of geniuses who have taken hold of their madness and used it to their advantage.

reply to post by qualm91

Any psychiatrist worth having the title and education, though many claim it is and has become even more so ( plus perhaps done as much damage to pepple as good) a total fraud......despite all that, they will tell you "everyone has a diagnosis." In other words, not only is it very subjective to even be called a science, it's based quite a bit on statistics, as well, which can be contrived to say almost anything one wants them to, if one knows how to manipulate them. The DSM has changed greatly over the years, and become more of a tool to incarcerate or silence or remove the rights through denial of competency by other people's perceptions.

That having been said, obviously, there are true issues for some: I still belileve in things like narcisissm, impulse control disorders, sociopathy, and have witnessed psychotic episodes, as well. But I'm not too sure how alll that comes about anymore. I don't accept that the answer is genetic, necessarily, nor physiological, either. Although I've always believed if the chemicals of the brain can be controlled in various ways, such as seratonin, or anything else that affects the behavior and firing of neurons, the neural sheath, and where those firiings travel, or putting it another way, how your wiring is working, for this is an electrical mechaniism influenced greatly by chemical balances, so this speaks to physiology, biology, and even perhaps,, outside or remote influences, which I won't get into because it's not really what your thread is about.

But I wanted tto point this out about psychiatrists themselves saying that you can give anyone a MMPI (Multiphasic Personality Index test) and come up with some diagnoses, including the psychiatrists. themselves.
And you almost must consider how much we change, what our life situation is at that time, relationships, etc., how much stress one is enduring.....

That's why I wanted to say that to you about the llabel you were given and accepted. We all have issues, problems dealing with ourselves, much less interfacing with others in the world around us. And as others here have pointed out, diet plays a role, so does exercise, and of course, "nurture," in the nature vs. nurture argument.

I'm glad what I had to say meant something to you. I used to write almost exclusively. Then I painted. Then went back to writing. And then some things were so profound to me and beyond my capacity to speak them, perhaps because the pain of the truth of it in words was too much at thtat moment, that I found myself drawing it in the middle of my journal writing. It's produced some of the most interesting, emotionally evocative art I've ever done. And very personal. It's funny....sometimes when I show someone the work, they'll try to turn it sideways, to read the writinng, rathher than concentrating on the drawing in the middle of it. I find this interesting because it usually reveals something to me about the person looking at the art, even though this art is so emotive it can be hard for me to show it to people, because it makes my pain about some things so obvious, and this is a vulnerabiility we don't always want someone to know about us.

May I suggest also a movie, black and white, called Pi, I believe, by Darron Aronofsky. I think that was the director. It's directly related to the topic of your thread, and a great story of a brilliant mathematician attempting to build a processor capable of reaching the full pattern of numbers in the solution of Pi, as a mathematical equation.....and what happens to hiim as a result. I think you would find this moviie very interesting.


Good luck to you. Embrace yourself, with your faults and try to find a way to see and use them as gifts, increase your empahty for others, and also use it to know how to protect your vulnerabilities. This, I guess, after all, is the essence of trying to relate to others healthily.
Tetra 50
Again, thanks for the thread. I have found it quite inspirational, and I'm not finding that much these days.

Pardon me for being lonng winded, but I'd also like to reiterate that just because someone is rather eccentric, or chooses not to participate in society because they aren't interested in gossiping or gadgets or tv shows--and I'm not trying to be insulting, here, or even politics--doesn't say a thing about their "normalcy" or mental balance, as far as I'm concerned.

And also the competition and seeking for perfection that is part and parcel of this culture, I don't believe, is a particularly healthy thing, either. We increasingly want people to be homogenized, it seems, and I think socialization in this culture purposefully puts a lot of pressure on us when we are young with these issues, and with social acceptance, popularity, when some of us are unique and simply talented in different ways.

reply to post by qualm91


The 'machinery' of the body/brain can sometimes produce interesting effects...some of these effects (due to so many involved factors) exhibit in ways that defy understanding...genius/madness...but the documented cases reveal a process that show a mind walking a tightrope...and some are better at tightrope walking...this can never be a case of sublimation...the balancing act is part of the ongoing process...straddling conflicting notions/ideas/emotions (and these being at odds with 'normal' functioning in a 'little boxes' society at large) is no mean feat...it is an expansion/inclusion of all stimulus...it is tiring and ubiquitous, and many have succumbed to the numbing effects of 'masking agents'...
On the whole, we only really hear of the spectacular 'successes' of this tightrope-walk...but many do it on a daily basis, indeed, on an hourly basis...

Å99

Originally posted by qualm91
mental disorders and a genius mind? What are your opinions on the matter?

Mental disorders = You
Genius mind = God

Bipolar? North and south pole are ice, yet pinguins on the one, polar bears on the other.

Did you have something to this qualm91?


The fine line between madness and genius? Belief.

reply to post by Angle


I don't believe in God. So, no, that is not where I was going with this thread. God would be one explanation for people whom believe in him. But I'm talking about brain chemistry, in and of itself, no religion involved.